Slate VCC (in-use discussion)

[TranscendingM]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Dude, the breakthrough for Nebula would be ease of use and elegant, stimple, stylish presentation.

Definitely, but this doesn't change what copperx was saying.

I've said this before, but I will use Nebula when it's not some big, weird hassle. I'm sure it's fantastic stuff, but... you can't complain about losing marketshare when you're anti-marketing.

- c

I see it less of a concern in "losing marketshare" and more of setting the record straight. As copperx mentioned, in a technical sense, this is not a breakthrough; reflecting in a sense a more stripped down version of Nebula - sort of like the Aquafx versions of Nebulareverb itself i.e implementing shorter distortion kernels for example.
Nebula isn't really anti-marketing per say as it is more pro-technology, if we can say that. It's really a mindset: pushing [current] technology to the boundries for ultimate sonics rather than meeting convenience half-way. This isn't about better or worse just a confirmation of copperx's statement.

[valjean24601]

Originally Posted by TehGuitarist

Has anyone got McDSP's analog channel they can compare it with?

Just considering whether i should replace it... well AC1 atleast because its doing something for me... but i dunno, just feels 90% there.

Maybe VCC will help.

I've recently tried the AC1 on a friend's system and I must admit I find it sonicially more gratifying than the VCC because it's less subtle. I've been struggling to hear the differences with the various VCC emulations (except for the Neve which is very pronounced) which has frustrated me whereas as soon as I loaded AC1 I heard an immediate difference (and improvement) in the tracks. However I'm quick to concede that this may be due to my own shortcomings and not those of the VCC plugs or perhaps it says more about my tastes than the actual tools, I'm not a man for subtlety and if i'm gonna put a plugin on my tracks I like to hear it making an immediately noticeable difference.

Cheers, Mark.

[Fred_Abstract]

yes sound like the plug is subbtle , i have used a desk like a effect to get more depth ,3d and nice saturation,smoothing transients.. in electronic music, not the same use,it bring a instant big smile not vcc from the samples, i will give it a try when it s stable, sound promising

[Animus]

I figured out what I like most about VCC Neve. I noticed it most on my bottom end and low mids. My kicks and bass guitar before were really "separate". VCC Neve really melds them together solidy and powerfully and makes it all "gooey and squishy yet punchy". Love it.

[Kenton]

Originally Posted by Animus

I figured out what I like most about VCC Neve. I noticed it most on my bottom end and low mids. My kicks and bass guitar before were really "separate". VCC Neve really melds them together solidy and powerfully and makes it all "gooey and squishy yet punchy". Love it.

True - it looks to me like the NEVE channel has a 3dB/octave boost below 80 Hz...and a VERY slight HF lift.
By comparison:
The NEVE mixbus has a a dip at 9k related to the drive control.
Also, surprisingly little harmonic distortion from the NEVE Channel and Mixbus until hit hard.

K.

[Tommy D]

Originally Posted by Animus

I figured out what I like most about VCC Neve. I noticed it most on my bottom end and low mids. My kicks and bass guitar before were really "separate". VCC Neve really melds them together solidy and powerfully and makes it all "gooey and squishy yet punchy". Love it.

Well said, and I have to agree. And to me the highs are very nice too. Smoother somehow, less "spiky"....

[Animus]

Originally Posted by Tommy D

Well said, and I have to agree. And to me the highs are very nice too. Smoother somehow, less "spiky"....

Yes, definitely a cure for digititus. Mixing into this thing is really cool, because you can "burnish" out the highs without getting harsh.

[djanthonyw]

I think this is the best example yet:

Slate Digital VIRTUAL CONSOLE COLLECTION beta 1

[Franco]

Loving this thing. I just tried it on a mix that has all sorts of coloration (from UAD Neve 1073s and UAD Neve 33609 on the drum bus) and the "Brit N" is adding super nice flavor to the low/mid tones.

One thing keeping me from going over to the Slate site and breaking out my c.c.:

I'm on PTLE and I keep getting drop outs, is this a demo feature? If so, I'm sold; coppin'.

BTW, CPU hit is minimal; added about 8% more to my CPU hit for 8 instances of the channel and one instance of the mix buss processor (Q6600).

[djanthonyw]

Yea, the 30-60 sec dropouts and not being able to recall / load settings are demo limitations.

[gbevin]

Originally Posted by TranscendingM

Definitely, but this doesn't change what copperx was saying.

I see it less of a concern in "losing marketshare" and more of setting the record straight. As copperx mentioned, in a technical sense, this is not a breakthrough; reflecting in a sense a more stripped down version of Nebula - sort of like the Aquafx versions of Nebulareverb itself i.e implementing shorter distortion kernels for example.
Nebula isn't really anti-marketing per say as it is more pro-technology, if we can say that. It's really a mindset: pushing [current] technology to the boundries for ultimate sonics rather than meeting convenience half-way. This isn't about better or worse just a confirmation of copperx's statement.

Just my 2c here, but Nebula really needs to get their act together. I'm a new user of both products, bought both at the same time. Besides the GUI awkwardness, there's just a general awkwardness about Nebula that reminds me of the attitude of hardcore Linux users that want to compile everything themselves by hand for marginal performance gains (I used to be one of them though 10 years ago).

It took two entire days to get the license, the docs are a scattered mess of snippets throughout a FAQ, a wiki, the forums. I had to manually search through my entire hard drive to find the file I was supposed to send (the docs only mentioned the location for Windows). When I finally received the license it was just a blank email with two files attached, no instructions whatshowever. Good thing I'm technically minded and recognized the file extensions. Then I bought AlexB's CLC program, again onto the waiting game ... and on it goes. When I read the forums I see a lot of mutual back rubbing of believers, rightfully or not, I can't say. I'm actually starting to dread the time it will take me to try Nebula out of real against VCC, if these first days are any indication, it's going to be a huge ordeal.

In the meantime I'm mixing my fifth song with VCC and I like what I hear, we're a good stretch through the week ... and guess which one was more productive for me?

[hive]

Originally Posted by gbevin

Just my 2c here, but Nebula really needs to get their act together. I'm a new user of both products, bought both at the same time. Besides the GUI awkwardness, there's just a general awkwardness about Nebula that reminds me of the attitude of hardcore Linux users that want to compile everything themselves by hand for marginal performance gains (I used to be one of them though 10 years ago).

It took two entire days to get the license, the docs are a scattered mess of snippets throughout a FAQ, a wiki, the forums. I had to manually search through my entire hard drive to find the file I was supposed to send (the docs only mentioned the location for Windows). When I finally received the license it was just a blank email with two files attached, no instructions whatshowever. Good thing I'm technically minded and recognized the file extensions. Then I bought AlexB's CLC program, again onto the waiting game ... and on it goes. When I read the forums I see a lot of mutual back rubbing of believers, rightfully or not, I can't say. I'm actually starting to dread the time it will take me to try Nebula out of real against VCC, if these first days are any indication, it's going to be a huge ordeal.

In the meantime I'm mixing my fifth song with VCC and I like what I hear, we're a good stretch through the week ... and guess which one was more productive for me?

I once bought some gear on Ebay. had to wait for the shipment to arrive, plug cables into it and turn it on. it was a huge ordeal.

[gbevin]

Originally Posted by hive

I once bought some gear on Ebay. had to wait for the shipment to arrive, plug cables into it and turn it on. it was a huge ordeal.

Guess why I rarely buy real gear anymore ... seriously, get on with the times. It's not just the waiting, it's the whole 'just figure it out yourself' attitude.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by gbevin

Just my 2c here, but Nebula really needs to get their act together. I'm a new user of both products, bought both at the same time. Besides the GUI awkwardness, there's just a general awkwardness about Nebula that reminds me of the attitude of hardcore Linux users that want to compile everything themselves by hand for marginal performance gains (I used to be one of them though 10 years ago).

It took two entire days to get the license, the docs are a scattered mess of snippets throughout a FAQ, a wiki, the forums. I had to manually search through my entire hard drive to find the file I was supposed to send (the docs only mentioned the location for Windows). When I finally received the license it was just a blank email with two files attached, no instructions whatshowever. Good thing I'm technically minded and recognized the file extensions. Then I bought AlexB's CLC program, again onto the waiting game ... and on it goes. When I read the forums I see a lot of mutual back rubbing of believers, rightfully or not, I can't say. I'm actually starting to dread the time it will take me to try Nebula out of real against VCC, if these first days are any indication, it's going to be a huge ordeal.

In the meantime I'm mixing my fifth song with VCC and I like what I hear, we're a good stretch through the week ... and guess which one was more productive for me?

This is my point exactly. It's too much of a headache for me or anyone I know. As I said, I'm sure Nebula's wonderful stuff. People seem to really love it. I'm probably missing out on something fantastic. But I fear I will never know 'cause the whole world around it feels so nerdy/clunky. Or at least it feels that way to me.

But now we're fully violating the title of this thread and the OP's original request to keep this on topic(!) and fairly narrow/linear/exclusive about usage of VCC and people's findings, assessments, etc.

In this regard, I'm embarrassed to be an offender and I apologize.

Back on-topic, has anyone tried using all the VCC models in a mix?

I figure this is likely to be the m.o. of the future, mixing and matching. SSL for high hat, Neve for kick. That kinda thing.

- c

[gbevin]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

In this regard, I'm embarrassed to be an offender and I apologize.

Right, let's move on, sorry to have followed in on this off-topicness

One thing I've been doing it changing where I put the VCC channel plug based on what processing happens for that particular track. If I go through virtual amplifier software for guitar or bass, I but the channel at the end instead of at the beginning. I find it sounds better since the virtual amp sound gets processed as well, and it makes sense since in the 'real world' you'd have recorded the amp with a microphone and go in the the desk only afterwards.

[hive]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

But I fear I will never know 'cause the whole world aroundj it feels so nerdy

[Convectuoso]

Originally Posted by gbevin

Right, let's move on, sorry to have followed in on this off-topicness

One thing I've been doing it changing where I put the VCC channel plug based on what processing happens for that particular track. If I go through virtual amplifier software for guitar or bass, I but the channel at the end instead of at the beginning. I find it sounds better since the virtual amp sound gets processed as well, and it makes sense since in the 'real world' you'd have recorded the amp with a microphone and go in the the desk only afterwards.

Put it before AND after! Recorded a DI into a Neve and reamped it into a Trident

The possibilities are endless.

[Marando]

Originally Posted by Slate Press

Just a note, the floor noise is an actual artifact of the consoles and was necessary to give a 100% authentic reproduction of the sound. Furthermore, we found that this noise was part of the many small things that add to the overall sound. Having said that, the option to turn it off will be implemented in a future update.

Me personally, just like tape hiss.. I think it adds to the character and I'll always keep it ON. But the option is definitely good for guys who want it off. thumbsup

Just like the analog option on the Waves emulations, it's getting to much if you are using a lot of compression after the hiss is introduced. So when people are putting VCC channel as last, the hiss is probably not to much.. but when inserted as a first plugin on all channels, and you are using a lot of compression with gain compensation on many channels, yeah, the hiss will become loud!

I would love to have an option to dial in the hiss, instead of just on/off.. or 3 settings for example.. 0% / 50% / 100%

[dollarosa]

hey guys, 1st post, but have been lurking this site here and there for years, and I have gained soo much knowledge. Hope to give back to the forum one day

Just want to say that I love this plug, but not useable for me at the moment due to the constant crashes in sonar 7.2.

I was wondering if anyone would be so kind and explain the grouping of the plugs. So for example I have added the channel plugs and the buss plugs. When i turn the group "off" on the drum buss it seems like the processing is not there. When I turn it back on I get that warm low end and mids back.

The manual to me doesn't really explain it

[lhama]

So I just got VCC yesterday, and I haven't really tested it that much, but I tried to dump it into a mix, and Really liked the API sound on all channels and the bus.

The Neve did something strange. The low end got unfocused and fuzzy, but not in a way that suited the mix, and then it started to stutter and turning tracks on and off at random.

I didn't get to try the 4K or the the Trident, but based on my experience with the API settings, I can say that it CAN bring something good out of the mix.

[Jack Orff]

I've been hearing differences, and enjoying people's VCC'd examples, but have only had time to have a little play myself, so far.
I inserted the 4K, no drive, onto all channels of my finished mix, plus mix buss, and I couldn't hear a difference! Is that because I didn't add any drive? Combined with my conservative channel levels (referencing to a nominal -18dBFS)? I then tried summing in Harrison Mixbus with 4Ks on all the groups and on the master - so far no difference (well, not like I'm hearing in other's examples). Shame, but I'll keep playing with it until I like it...

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by copperx

I think you ought to credit the Nebula guys, for the idea was ripped off of them. I have a lot of respect for Fabrice, but for the Slate VCC they are just using lower quality settings (mega-short kernels) in order to not hobble the CPU.

Don't get confused: this is NOT a breakthrough.

Come on guys. It's like saying I the first guy to sample/emulate a 480L or Pultec EQ is the MOST original. We're talking about recreating something that actually already exists. That said, if you followed the other VCC threads, there seems to be quite a bit of original thought in executing and coding this plugin.

There's plenty of room for 2 great products that when purchased together STILL don't amount to $500. Can you believe that!!! Not too long ago, you could hardly get a ProTools plugin for less than $1000. Remember to smile today!

[Agzilla]

Bounce down in Logic did NOT envoke a crash.... as someone mentioned earlier..

HOWEVER i have just found that when assigning channels to groups... ie. some Slate Channels to be group one and some group 2 within the plugin GUI using the lil LED's etc, the console choices and drive knobs etc work fine controlling changes within their own group as they should...

BUT i cannot choose group one to Oversample and group two not to oversample...

So as i was trying to save CPU by only oversampling on important channels as my MacPro is a lil older than some... oversample mode engaged on ALL Slate Channels is overloading my system.. is this deliberate? Should we be able to have some channels set to oversample and some not? Is it meant to be a universal setting or preference accross ALL instances of the plugin?

I REALLY need to know this... This IS a VERY important issue as it means those of us with less powerful Macs cannot really use oversampling mode in bigger sessions?

Hey Team Slate... i'd REALLY love an answer to this more than anything else right now...

Posted this at Slate Forum too... But it's quite over there so posted here to see if anyone can replicate it!

Thanx..


Zz.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by ProducerBoy

I don't know why people keep talking about driving the faders. There's a drive knob on the plug. You drive that for more color. When I tested it, I didn't touch the faders, and my gain staging was as it always is.

Ive found that works, or putting a trim plugin before the VCC and pushing that can give a more dramatic effect.

Why is it everyone moans about consoles that add too much colour to mixes, yet when the emulation comes along and it's nice and subtle, everyone complains there's not enough colouring?

Sounds like double standards to me.

[Agzilla]

Can anyone confirm they have the same results as me... asper my previous post?

This issue is burning a hole in my head...lol

Cannot believe it's impossible to pick some instances to oversample (on important elements) and some not to... to save CPU..

Anyone?


Zz.

[TranscendingM]

Originally Posted by gbevin

Just my 2c here, but Nebula really needs to get their act together. I'm a new user of both products, bought both at the same time. Besides the GUI awkwardness, there's just a general awkwardness about Nebula that reminds me of the attitude of hardcore Linux users that want to compile everything themselves by hand for marginal performance gains (I used to be one of them though 10 years ago).

It took two entire days to get the license, the docs are a scattered mess of snippets throughout a FAQ, a wiki, the forums. I had to manually search through my entire hard drive to find the file I was supposed to send (the docs only mentioned the location for Windows). When I finally received the license it was just a blank email with two files attached, no instructions whatshowever. Good thing I'm technically minded and recognized the file extensions. Then I bought AlexB's CLC program, again onto the waiting game ... and on it goes. When I read the forums I see a lot of mutual back rubbing of believers, rightfully or not, I can't say. I'm actually starting to dread the time it will take me to try Nebula out of real against VCC, if these first days are any indication, it's going to be a huge ordeal.

In the meantime I'm mixing my fifth song with VCC and I like what I hear, we're a good stretch through the week ... and guess which one was more productive for me?

And just as I agreed with Chad, I also agree with you - on those points.
I'm not here to snub or praise one product over the other. I'm just making the point of what actually is a break-through versus what appears to be one, which is subsequently enhanced by it's GUI, convenience, and other enticing things for a user, which is all great too. At the heart of it though, you can't really compare the two. As I said, vcc stops at a certain point where usuability and convenience take over. While nebula, technically speaking, makes no compromise. It is pushing the limits of technology as much as it can - for now. As a consequence you have "clunkiness"; "nerdiness"; an overall atypical experience of using a plug-in within a workflow. If a user chooses the former, which is understandable to a degree, then so be it. Nothing wrong with that, so long as their contrast is understood.

The "placebo effect" of Nebula that was mentioned I truly and utterly don't comprehend. In fact because of it's lack of frills, GUI, etc., there is nothing left but sound to evaluate. Ah, well, speech over, as they said carry on with the thread.

[gbevin]

Originally Posted by TranscendingM

The "placebo effect" of Nebula that was mentioned I truly and utterly don't comprehend. In fact because of it's lack of frills, GUI, etc., there is nothing left but sound to evaluate. Ah, well, speech over, as they said carry on with the thread.

Sadly off topic subjects have trouble dying since everyone rightfully should get his say. I agree with you here, I've been using Nebula since yesterday and the standard programs are wonderful, not placebo at all.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by TranscendingM

And just as I agreed with Chad, I also agree with you - on those points.
I'm not here to snub or praise one product over the other. I'm just making the point of what actually is a break-through versus what appears to be one, which is subsequently enhanced by it's GUI, convenience, and other enticing things for a user, which is all great too. At the heart of it though, you can't really compare the two. As I said, vcc stops at a certain point where usuability and convenience take over. While nebula, technically speaking, makes no compromise. It is pushing the limits of technology as much as it can - for now. As a consequence you have "clunkiness"; "nerdiness"; an overall atypical experience of using a plug-in within a workflow. If a user chooses the former, which is understandable to a degree, then so be it. Nothing wrong with that, so long as their contrast is understood.

The "placebo effect" of Nebula that was mentioned I truly and utterly don't comprehend. In fact because of it's lack of frills, GUI, etc., there is nothing left but sound to evaluate. Ah, well, speech over, as they said carry on with the thread.

I didn't mean placebo in the sense that it didn't do anything but more in the sense of it "sounding good" and analog. Particularly the console and tape programs. I used the Alex consoles quite a lot but in all cases I ended up just turning them off because it was better without them. Same with the R2R tape programs. In fact, just out of curiosity i tried again one of the Studer programs on the master buss last night. Sounded much better without it. VCC actually makes stuff sound marginally "better". I don't care if you call it more analog or whatever, better is always better. More "analog" is just more marketing stuff, in the case of Slate or Nebula for that matter.

Nebula excels at eq I admit. But then again, that is killed in workflow by having only one band per instance, or inflexible multiband presets.

[a1236040]

Placebo = you dont know how to use it

Probably you havent set right the mast page, the cnv rate and more parameters or your ears, room are bad

[TranscendingM]

Originally Posted by Animus

I didn't mean placebo in the sense that it didn't do anything but more in the sense of it "sounding good" and analog. Particularly the console and tape programs. I used the Alex consoles quite a lot but in all cases I ended up just turning them off because it was better without them. Same with the R2R tape programs. In fact, just out of curiosity i tried again one of the Studer programs on the master buss last night. Sounded much better without it. VCC actually makes stuff sound marginally "better". I don't care if you call it more analog or whatever, better is always better. More "analog" is just more marketing stuff, in the case of Slate or Nebula for that matter.

Nebula excels at eq I admit. But then again, that is killed in workflow by having only one band per instance, or inflexible multiband presets.

Well I don't want to compare tape programs with console programs, obviously very different things. Not to mention, everybody uses these things differently so I can't verify or villify your use of them. As far as comparing console programs, I can't really agree nor say it's a matter of taste. From what was analyzed and/or observed with vcc, it's as I said, doing a fraction of what Nebula does. I can't possibly see why a person would say that nebula doesn't sound analog while vcc does. If one thinks vcc sounds better may be they like that particular sound, that's fine. The only matter of subjectivity here is the usability and preference for type of sound. All else that's technically quantifiable here puts Nebula ahead. Nobody can argue the subjectivity of usability; I'm definitely not doing that. Really if you want to talk placebo...well.....