Logic MIDI... making my brain hurt!

[phas3d]

When setting up external midi tracks (rewire or physical midi instruments) you should only create an external midi instrument and then in the media tab choose library. You should have all ports there with midi channels (both rewire and physical ones). It should be as simple as that.
Why don't you use kontakt inside Logic in a software instrument track?

[Dick_Money]

When you go to "Create New Track" does the dialogue box have a check mark at multi-timbal. Uncheck it.

[phas3d]

Also on the mixer tab create aux tracks (options menu) and choose the rewire outs on the auxs inputs

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by phas3d

When setting up external midi tracks (rewire or physical midi instruments) you should only create an external midi instrument and then in the media tab choose library. You should have all ports there with midi channels (both rewire and physical ones). It should be as simple as that.
Why don't you use kontakt inside Logic in a software instrument track?

OK.... this is helping. Though it seems a bit odd that I have to go here in order to make this work and that it can't be done in the inspector. At least I can quick key down from track to track so it does move fast. I looked in the Environment after doing this for 3 tracks and see it's STILL setting up 'multi instruments' for each port.. I'de rather it just set up a single 'instrument' (so I can do other things with each track/instrument with various transformers, chord memorizers, etc..... so... in the end.. I'm still going to have to delete most of these and create individual instruments.....it also created a rogue 'GM Device' multi-instrument that isn't really doing anything.

Also... I do have rewire inputs setup through auxes in the mixer

I'm trying to setup a template so I can freely switch songs without having to reload all my kontakt samples. Not as big a deal since kontakt 4.1 with the whole background loading thing... but it does still speed things up quite a bit. It also helps alleviate the problem of Logic 'hijacking' CC7 on multi-instruments. It also opens the door to VST plugs as well.

Originally Posted by Dick_Money

When you go to "Create New Track" does the dialogue box have a check mark at multi-timbal. Uncheck it.

There is no 'multi-timbral' checkbox for external midi tracks, only internal 'software instrument' tracks.

[phas3d]

You can create a template and setup all that you will need for your projects. That way you only need to do it once. But you already found that up for yourself.
Quick tip if you intend to use several midi channels in a single instrument. Create a software instrument track. Open environment and go to mixer. Create a multi-instrument and click all channels to enable them. Connect it to software instrument track. Uncheck icon on software instrument track. You can name multi-instrument whatever you like. Now you can use all the channels of the software instrument on the arrangement.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by phas3d

You can create a template and setup all that you will need for your projects. That way you only need to do it once. But you already found that up for yourself.
Quick tip if you intend to use several midi channels in a single instrument. Create a software instrument track. Open environment and go to mixer. Create a multi-instrument and click all channels to enable them. Connect it to software instrument track. Uncheck icon on software instrument track. You can name multi-instrument whatever you like. Now you can use all the channels of the software instrument on the arrangement.

I get how that all works... but usually I don't want a 'multi-instrument' because then you have no way to easily use a transform object, arpeggiator, chord memorizer, etc. on the individual channels. I find the single 'instrument' objects much more flexible and powerful. I wish there was a preference I could check (or uncheck) so Logic isn't always assuming I want a 'multi-instrument'. Not to mention the work-around for transforming CC7 into CC11 for controlling volume... which doesn't work for everything.

[phas3d]

Again, do a template from scratch with what you will need. Best thing really

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by phas3d

Again, do a template from scratch with what you will need. Best thing really

That's what I started setting up today... it's just taking quite a while because in order to make a single track the way I'de like it's taking 5 steps..... just to make the track and route it.

-create external midi track
-select port and channel from library
-go to environment and delte the auto-created multi-instrument object
-create regular 'instrument' object
-go back to arrange page and make the connection (or drag the instrument object from the environment window over thet track in the arrange page)

For example.. coming from using PT the other day I can create 10 midi tracks, select them all, hold down "shift - option - command" and assign all 10 tracks to individual midi channels in one move.

Doing 10 tracks in Logic is taking 50 clicks and constantly switching from the arrange page to the environment. Yeah... once the template is done... I can use it like any other template... but just creating it is... well.... making my brain hurt a bit. I still feel like I'm 'missing something' here and taking the long way home.

[phas3d]

This is probably one of the only things that didn't get changed from the Emagic time. Every track needs to have an object or it will be a copy of the same track. It's true they should have addressed it. It can however give you a lot of flexibility if you're familiar with environment.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by phas3d

This is probably one of the only things that didn't get changed from the Emagic time. Every track needs to have an object or it will be a copy of the same track. It's true they should have addressed it. It can however give you a lot of options if you're familiar with environment.

Maybe we've got another 'communication breakdown' going on here..

I fully understand every track needs an object... I just wish I could check a preference when working with 'external MIDI tracks' that the auto-created 'multi-instrument' object was simply a regular, single channel 'instrument' object instead. I'm not a Logic Environment guru by any stretch of the imagination, but I've got a good grasp on how it works. I've even pumped MIDI tracks from PT into Logics environment (then back into PT) before to take advantage of what you can do there.

[phas3d]

I understood you. It's a pain now, I'm sure. But when you get your template done you won't have to deal with this again. I never had to deal with this because I don't use rewire and my mid environment has been the same for years.
Drop Apple a message explaining what you're going through and possibly suggesting a solution. Some of my prayers were answered before.
Best of luck.

Apple - Logic Pro - Feedback

[valis]

You're working at it backwards imo. Create the objects in the environment first if you want something customized to fit your needs (rather than what you get by default) and then create arrange tracks and assign them to the objects (via the track's menu, by selecting a track in arrange and clicking the midi object in the environment with the 'thru' tool, or by dragging from env. to arrange...etc.) If you work on a layer of the environment that isn't the audio layer you won't have to deal with things becoming a mess in the environment if/when you use the Arrange 'create X track' menu items....

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by valis

You're working at it backwards imo. Create the objects in the environment first if you want something customized to fit your needs (rather than what you get by default) and then create arrange tracks and assign them to the objects (via the track's menu, by selecting a track in arrange and clicking the midi object in the environment with the 'thru' tool, or by dragging from env. to arrange...etc.) If you work on a layer of the environment that isn't the audio layer you won't have to deal with things becoming a mess in the environment if/when you use the Arrange 'create X track' menu items....

Amen.

Once you set up your various working environments and screen sets..., you can FLY.

The initial effort to accomplish these creations and save them is the price of being able to customize the shit outta the way you want things to look and work in the program.

Do it for a while and you won't wanna lose it. I assure you.

Logic is now, and ALWAYS HAS BEEN, MIDI KING in my estimation.

It's where they CAME FROM(As opposed to audio).

Best regards,

SM.

[valis]

Pretty much. The confusion over the "extra steps" you're having to do is because you're using an 'automatic' menu-driven route to doing things that Apple has added since v6/7 to make things easier for newcomers. As you're discovering relying on 'automated' methods has its downsides.

It would be nice to see v10 also respect my Environment work and not shift stuff around willy nilly when I *do* use the menus to create environment+arrange objects, then you'd have the best of both worlds (since once you start using the environment directly you tend to have to stay there...)

[phas3d]

True that they haven't been able yet to fully complement the power of environment with the new automated tasks implemented.
I just love the add tracks and duplicate track as well as multi output software instruments track adding.
I guess the 10th version will define what direction Logic is going. Still hate the midi file import, though. I don't want it to always create software instruments for that and messing with the environment too.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by valis

You're working at it backwards imo. Create the objects in the environment first if you want something customized to fit your needs (rather than what you get by default) and then create arrange tracks and assign them to the objects (via the track's menu, by selecting a track in arrange and clicking the midi object in the environment with the 'thru' tool, or by dragging from env. to arrange...etc.) If you work on a layer of the environment that isn't the audio layer you won't have to deal with things becoming a mess in the environment if/when you use the Arrange 'create X track' menu items....

I should have come back and posted an update. I asked the same thing over at the Logic Pro Help forum and got this exact advise. Sorry if this is what you were trying to convey earlier phas3d but it just wasn't sinking in. So yeah... now I'm simply creating a bunch of regular "instrument objects" in the environment and then dragging them over to the arrange page to create the tracks. Works like a charm.

I 'get' Logic more and more each day..., but it's still a pretty foreign workflow to me.... not nearly as foreign as Reaper...., but then Reaper is also 100x more customizable... so maybe that's just the price you pay to work with an app that allows you really dig in and customize things.

[jigsawlogic]

Glad you found your solution. It's really worth it to read the chapter on the environment, and familiarize yourself with its components.

The environment is a MIDI circuit-board chop shop whose functionality is only limited by your imagination. Do you want an on-screen doppelganger of your synthesizer, that you can use to program patches or automate parameters on the fly? A custom keyboard map for a drum plugin that brings all of your most-used articulations within comfortable reach? Or how about the ability to create random melodies with key-switchable scales and roots that begin as soon as you press a key?

If you know Logic's environment well, then just about anything MIDI you can dream up can be done. That's where the program shines.

[valis]

Originally Posted by jigsawlogic

If you know Logic's environment well, then just about anything MIDI you can dream up can be done. That's where the program shines.

And this is the main reason I still love Logic. I can map any midi controller in my studio to do ANYTHING, and keep it fixed to that for the duration of the project.

The only other thing that I own comes close (aside from using Max/PD/Bidule or custom software) is Max4Live, but Live has other issues with its engine that makes it less useful for mixing/arranging (for me.)

[gsilbers]

this is a great technique but one issue that kept me from doing it this way is rewire.

rewire uses only one core so if you will notice a lot of cpu spike and overload messages.

2 ways to overcome this is to setup adat loopback technique of grabbing the adat ports and patch out from adat and back in again and setup the inputs in logic.. this is the way most guys use this . myself included.

or get vienna ensemble pro.

there a couple videos showing this technique for those who where asking.

Orchestral Film Scoring Template with Bidule and DP | Cinesamples

its with DP but the idea is the same.

[Benmrx]

I've seen that video and he actully has a newer one up too showing LASS. But I don't see anything about an Adat loopback being used. I also don't understand how you would tempo sync or loops going on. Maybe there's something I'm missing?

[valis]

I believe he's saying to use rewire for the control signals and then return the audio via adat to avoid cpu overload/skipping. Or perhaps they're avoiding rewire altogether and just sending midi internally to the other app etc... Personally I would just use a 2nd computer if I was going to return via adat anyway...

[Benmrx]

I don't know. Sure seems like plain old rewire, at least in that scenario. Especially if you look at the updated video and the comments. That setup was actually my whole inspiration on this kind of setup.

[valis]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

I don't know. Sure seems like plain old rewire, at least in that scenario. Especially if you look at the updated video and the comments. That setup was actually my whole inspiration on this kind of setup.

I was referring to what gsilbers said:

Originally Posted by gsilbers

2 ways to overcome this is to setup adat loopback technique of grabbing the adat ports and patch out from adat and back in again and setup the inputs in logic.. this is the way most guys use this . myself included.

In which case I find a second PC works just fine too (unless you want sample accurate control signals I suppose?) I use an old dual Xeon from 2001 with Scope DSP cards to host stuff in Bidule and am quite happy with that, though if I wanted to go full orchestral I'd have to upgrade the machine at least to socket 775 for the additional ram I'd need...