I'm bored with Waves L1... Looking for something better!

[TonyBelmont]

Any suggestions? I'm tired of Waves and don't feel like upgrading again...

[George Necola]

I am very impressed by the Nomad factory Blue tube bundle V2. I like having the comp on the masterbus. and I like them on guitartracks. Good punch for drums on the drum2bus:) I like it;)

I like the elemental audio neodynium very much on singletracks... but only in combination with the URS EQ bundle plugins for some warmth.

and because its common to mention it: PSP Vintagewarmer. Not my favourite plugin.. maybe I couldnt handle it correctly.

URS EQ is worth a look too (without having read the title of your question ;) ).

[djui5]

Have you tried Maxim? It get's nasty if you abuse it, but it works sometimes better than the L series.

[Bishbashbosh]

L2 is one better than the L1.... and the L3 is 2 better.....

But if you're not too happy with Waves (bring on the anti-Waves bitching....) then I personally think the Sony Limiter is really good....

[karl]

I agree Maxim can get fine results. Also it can be picked up as an individual iLok on ebay really cheap. I think mine was $25 plus iLok transfer. Just don't go crazy with it, but that applies to most limiters.

[Pgsmusic]

Yeah! i´m a little bit tired of the sound of L1 and L2... i like so much sony plugg-ins but i can not use them in my studio because i work with Cubase... maybe is good moment to buy a Powercore or something...
Cheers!

[James Lehmann]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I'm bored with Waves L1... Looking for something better! Any suggestions? I'm tired of Waves and don't feel like upgrading again

OK - that's easy! Check out Elemental Audio Finis.

- Sounds MUCH more transparent than the L1 (not hard!)
- Excellent User interface
- Easy to install
- No copy-protection upgrade hassles
- Good value for money, especially if you pick up another EA plug (Eqium highly recommended here)

[mogWai]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Any suggestions? I'm tired of Waves and don't feel like upgrading again...

Nothing is better than the Waves Lx limiters.

No.. I mean.. Nothing, is better than the Waves Lx limiters.

[Dickens]

Have you checked out the new URS compressors/limiters?

[TuT]

Universal Audio have a great limiter on their UAD-1 card.

Its called the Precision Mastering Limiter and it is very transparent.

I find it makes a great alternative to the Waves stuff (and it's not insanely overpriced, although you do have to buy the UAD-1 card to run it)

[Bishbashbosh]

Originally Posted by mogWai

No.. I mean.. Nothing, is better than the Waves Lx limiters.

[George Necola]

oh.. yeah.. if you wanna invest into HARDWARE.. nothing beats the L2a from the UAD-1 card:)

[Jules]

Sony Limiter..?

[minister]

SONY limiter for sure...

FINIS for the budget concious.

[tommyd]

Sony Limiter here as well................Maxim sometimes too!
TommyD

[ILL]

Sony Oxford Limiter, GREAT!

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by George Necola

oh.. yeah.. if you wanna invest into HARDWARE.. nothing beats the L2a from the UAD-1 card:)

Of course, the UAD card is almost the same price a sa single waves plug-in.
So, I woudls ay much better value for your money.

And now you'll have access to their other totally kickass plug-ins. That are also priced muchh cheaper than pretty much any other comparable proi plug-in.

Prices range from $99 to $199.

[TonyBelmont]

I would love the Sony, but I am using Logic/ Audio Units on this computer... Any other suggestions?

[AdamJay]

Tony, have you checked out the W1 Limiter?
its a clone of Waves L1. and its VST for Windows/OSX.
its also FREE.
www.yohng.com
I agree that Waves can shove their WUP.

So now you can keep an L1 (via W1), and buy something else in ADDITION.
I really like iZotope Ozone 3 for multiband work.

I'm waiting to hear the URS Comps myself if they woule E V E R release the fecking native versions!

[Igotsoul4u]

Check out the cranesong phoenix. It sounds fantastic. I also have been using the sony inflator a lot.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I would love the Sony, but I am using Logic/ Audio Units on this computer... Any other suggestions?

Get a FireWire PowerCore system, you can get some of the Sony stuff or MD3 from TC.

The L2 offers far better sound in terms of distortion compared to L1. L3 Ultra is a different beast since it uses behind-the-scenes multiband, you need to go for the L3 Multi if you want control.

Also you can try clipping, in some respects it might be better and louder than limiting, also try the Inflator from Sony/Oxford.

However, you might find the combination of LinMB doing low level compression (upward) and L2/L3 might do the trick, even though Waves have a lousy price/upgrade policy (and you have to buy the L3 MultiMaximizer separately!).

Give PSP a try and see if you like it, and didn't particularly find it useful.

[greggybud]

I completely agree with Lagerfeldt. (haven't used L-3 yet)

I think Waves did themselves in by calling them "loudness maximizers." I have no clue about the expierence of people here on this forum that use the L-2, however I have found from personal expierence that people abuse this tool all the time.

Get your db's from COMPRESSION not limiting. Try surgical compression, compression in series, (i have used up to 4) or go back to pre-mixdown and re-compress individual tracks. If that doesnt work go back to EQ and make slight adjustments.

That "L-2 sound" usually means limiting more than -.2db peak and the L-2 simply was not made for much more than that. The L-2 is extremely transparent if kept in that range, but when it has to work hard and wack off every second you get those artifacts and the famous "L-2 sound." I dont pride myself compromising a song down to -11dbRMS but I will assure anyone that the L-2 was not the major contributor. The transients were tamed and the result is a nice thicker wave you can feed the L-2.

Using the L-2 with the LinMB compressor is a fantastic tool but again unless you approach the LinMB as a single band compressor and make those adjustments first before working with each band you can get lost very quickly, give up and tell all your buddies Waves sucks. Then he finds a low cost or even freeware plug and says it sounds better than Waves. My only gripe with Waves is their budle/price/upgrade program....not the L-2, Ren Eq, Ren comp, or LinMB.

I use Waves with UAD tools all the time.(including precision limiter) Sometimes UAD works better, other times Waves works better. Over all I have found that Waves requires more attention to detail because they offer more options as opposed to most UAD tools. So it really goes back to the expierence of the user, not the tools.

I have sat next to a very well known ME (one Im thinking most would know here) who has access to thousands of dollars in hardware in the mastering room. While he will never publicly admit it, with certain projects he still uses Waves, UAD as well as Sony, often combining the plugs with hardware.

[mogWai]

Originally Posted by greggybud

That "L-2 sound" usually means limiting more than -.2db peak and the L-2 simply was not made for much more than that. The L-2 is extremely transparent if kept in that range,

I respectfully disagree with you. L3 is by no means transparent - it veils the sound and turns things to mud. Just simply put it in your chain and then turn it off.

A lot of people (myself included) get into the habit of applying plug-ins without thinking about the sound first. I always used to put L3 on my mixes set to nothing but -.2 db ceiling - and I would use L3 dither. Then one day I just sat there and flicked it on and off.. transparent.. no.

Now I just use the clipping method (although I do compress mixes with Fairchild) - everything sounds waaay more open and fresh. My master fader is sometimes as high as +4dB, but I dont care because it still sounds great

It really was that drastic.. for me.

[Methlab]

i still use the L1 on vocals and lead synth parts, but i havent used any of those as classic limiters in a long time. When I started out I abused the L2 on the 2 bus, and after hearing horrible mix results i said enough is enough. I try to just peak at 0 in my mixes with no limiting or compressing of any type, and that has really helped me get cleaner mixes IME.

[LAU]

Originally Posted by mogWai

Now I just use the clipping method (although I do compress mixes with Fairchild) - everything sounds waaay more open and fresh. My master fader is sometimes as high as +4dB, but I dont care because it still sounds great

can you eleborate on 'the clipping method' ?

[Bishbashbosh]

Originally Posted by mogWai

I respectfully disagree with you. L3 is by no means transparent - it veils the sound and turns things to mud. Just simply put it in your chain and then turn it off.

A lot of people (myself included) get into the habit of applying plug-ins without thinking about the sound first. I always used to put L3 on my mixes set to nothing but -.2 db ceiling - and I would use L3 dither. Then one day I just sat there and flicked it on and off.. transparent.. no.

Now I just use the clipping method (although I do compress mixes with Fairchild) - everything sounds waaay more open and fresh. My master fader is sometimes as high as +4dB, but I dont care because it still sounds great

It really was that drastic.. for me.

Just out of interest, is it the Dither that made the difference here, or the signal simply running through the plug?

I too have given up using the L2 (in my case), and just compressing a little. It does sound better IMO ( I LIKE dynamics!!) but it's not neccesarily 'Radio Friendly' (whatever that is )

[mogWai]

Originally Posted by LAU

can you eleborate on 'the clipping method' ?

Sure, it takes a hell of a lot of clipped overs for the ear to register them as distortion - so you are safe to clip the audio, within a certain range of time/samples.

Say you have a snare drum that sounds great but is regularly lighting up the clip LEDs well.. leave it.. its probably going over for about 2ms and you wont hear the distortion.

I usually compress the master bus with Fairchild.. if I use the VU meters to approximate to 0VU for hardest transients I'm usually finding the master output has clipped, sometimes at 4 or 5dB. I stopped worrying about it, since you cant hear it, and any limiting that squashes your transients usually results in degraded audio.

I have no idea about the technicalities, I'm a producer of the digital revolution.. but I spent so long reading many, many conflicting theories about digital gain staging that I decided to **** it.

[cl516]

wait wait wait, all this talk about how we're in digital and 24 bits etc. and how we should have enough headroom already,
and now y'all are saying we should LEAVE IT if it clips?

i do have to say this:
whenever i worry about the +4db redness from let's say snare transients,
i slap on let's say an L1 or whatever, it DOES sound different. on individual tracks.

but if i put an L3 ultra on the mix buss and set ceiling to -0.3 but no squashing, it usually sounds pretty transparent to me.

[greggybud]

Originally Posted by mogWai

I respectfully disagree with you. L3 is by no means transparent - it veils the sound and turns things to mud. Just simply put it in your chain and then turn it off.

A lot of people (myself included) get into the habit of applying plug-ins without thinking about the sound first. I always used to put L3 on my mixes set to nothing but -.2 db ceiling - and I would use L3 dither. Then one day I just sat there and flicked it on and off.. transparent.. no.

Now I just use the clipping method (although I do compress mixes with Fairchild) - everything sounds waaay more open and fresh. My master fader is sometimes as high as +4dB, but I dont care because it still sounds great

It really was that drastic.. for me.

I'm speaking about the L-2 not the L3. Im told there is a big difference however as mentioned have never tried the L3.

As far as overs, are you speaking about individual tracks before mixdown or the output on the final master bus? If on the final master I would be concerned. Individual tracks thats part of what I consider surgical compression.