CLA on using cracks

[Realziment]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

I'm guessing your being sarcastic because, nothing against the guy but Obama cannot cure piracy. A long as there are servers in Russia, Algeria, and Indonesia, piracy will continue its present course since young people will still looking for for 'that free music shit'.

If he wants to do something good, then he should get our troops outta the war.

Unfortunately this is a very true point.

[MarkyGoldstein]

I think the music instruments and effects industry should do more to improve the overall buying and management experience, and then they will also sell more. I have invested about 70k $ into software, no cracks over here at all, and I spend too much time maintaining every week this software studio. The industry should get together to improve matters.

[Tui]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Here is what has changed.

In the past, a record producer, engineer or studio musician had 2 main attributes. Being talented at the job at hand, and being able to hustle the gigs.

Before piracy, having either of these two skills or a fair combination of both, ensured that you'd be working.

Now I'm seeing very talented people not working due to not being able to hustle a gig. And I'm seeing many great hustlers getting the gigs with little to no talent.

I don't see this as a great springboard to the best possible music.

Yup, another way of putting it.

[Tui]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

If he wants to do something good, then he should get our troops outta the war.

I thought he got elected to do exactly that. Yet strangely, he never did. Funny how these things work out.

Anyway. Piracy...

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

A long as there are servers in Russia, Algeria, and Indonesia, piracy will continue its present course since young people will still looking for for 'that free music shit'.

That's why treaties like ACTA are important. It is also why countries like Australia and the US are developing infrastructure to IP block foreign entities that violate international law.

[n8tron]

Originally Posted by jmarkham

Just because something is ubiquitous doesn't make it right... Art (either in
software or in recording) must be valued .. otherwise, it will die. One may
debate that value, and that's fine. To assert that you have a right to avail
yourself of another's labor without compensation is (at best) selfish.

jeff

This is a GREAT point that I have been thinking about a lot ever since the "pay what you want" model has come to digital downloads. It makes you think about the monetary worth of music as art.

And I've found something interesting when it comes to paying for music. I've found that the more I spend on it, the more time I invest in it, and the more chances I give to like it. It's almost subconscious. If I download free mp3s from a label/artists site they generally get lost in my library never to be heard again. If I buy from iTunes I actually make it a point to search it out and listen to it. If I buy vinyl then I'm even more investing, taking the time to listen to records I have and downloading the digital copy if they supply it.

In short, the conclusion that I've found is that when you buy an album, you are giving that music value, and when you steal it, you are in a sense saying that it is worth nothing to you.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by n8tron

In short, the conclusion that I've found is that when you buy an album, you are giving that music value, and when you steal it, you are in a sense saying that it is worth nothing to you.

Absolutely. thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

I'm guessing your being sarcastic because, nothing against the guy but Obama cannot cure piracy. A long as there are servers in Russia, Algeria, and Indonesia, piracy will continue its present course since young people will still looking for for 'that free music shit'.

If he wants to do something good, then he should get our troops outta the war.

Originally Posted by Realziment

Unfortunately this is a very true point.

maybe you missed this:



we will stop piracy at our borders - as mobious mentioned, and ACTA.

[Synæsthesiac]

Art (and music) is priceless and cannot have monetary value. It's the container/vehicle and the aura/stigma that surrounds it that might have some value to someone.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Synæsthesiac

Art (and music) is priceless and cannot have monetary value. It's the container/vehicle and the aura/stigma that surrounds it that might have some value to someone.

I don't understand what you mean.

Let's put the container/vehicle aside because it's obvious that that is not the total value of the item.

Aura/Stigma? How do you separate that from the Art?

What is a baseball card worth?

What is a painting worth?

What is a house worth?

If I burn down 90% of the houses that are for sale in your town, the 10% that are left will sell for more. Supply and Demand. When you have more buyers than houses for sale, the price goes up. And vice versa.

It's all changing based on what people can get things for.

So right now, music is worthless. I can download any song I want for free in 5 minutes. So it's value is worthless.

But it's based on criminal behavior. It's not supply and demand. It's like arson. The market has changed due to illegal activity. The way you change it back is by stopping that activity. Not by accepting it and finding a different way to earn a living.

[gla]

(Disclaimer: I'm not American, so this may seem a little biased towards my culture of "share the culture but also share the profits when due", and I'm also against piracy, mainly because I'm a programmer, but...)


Isn't the "clone industry" way more harmful than Piracy itself? I believe the fact that pretty much all recording engineers who paid for plugins are really mad about plugin piracy is because they paid for it in the first place, instead of being mad for moral reasons and stuff like that.

Recently I've heard of Mackie desks that "pretend" to be a MBox or M-Audio gear, or Apogee, Mytek, Prism, Lynx and iZcorp converters that pretends to behave as TDM Card... plus we all know about plugins that emulate old hardware, or maybe even current hardware. And what about Telecaster copies or Les Paul copies that creep the market... What about Microphone or Pre-Amp clones?

The Apogee/Mackie thing strikes me as TOO similar to the Pro Tools HD crack thing early this year, because both were "reverse engineering that fools the software, but doesn't really modify it" (a quote from a AVID guy).

I honestly believe that engineers and musicians are TOO complacent towards "cloners", because they're money makers and therefore, legitimate. "Oh, I have Apogee products, they're good, they can't be harming Digidesign."

I've seen a similar discussion on another forum: a longtime member and renowned engineer asked on that forum that about the morality of and people started throwing fallacies defending Apogee and the other card makers, until someone clared everything:

The "issue" is that Avid very much does NOT want Apogee, Mytek, Prism, Lynx, and iZcorp to be able to interface directly with Pro Tools HD cards.

If you want clarification you can call Apogee, et al and ask if they have a license. They will candidly tell you the truth.

The discussion went to hell because everyone obviously doesn't care if some company makes Digidesign lose money.

--

I've never been to a pro studio with pirated plugins. I always see Logic Pro boxes or Waves boxes or TDM Cards on the bus (which can be copied but not pirated). The ones using pirated plugins are kids on bedroom studios... but I always see cloned microphones, cloned guitars, cloned outboard, plugins that clone stuff, Behringer stuff that clones everything.

Plugins are cheaper to both research and manufacture compared to high-end hardware. Research, development, production and distribution of hardware isn't as cheap as coding a plugin, selling the download on the web and duplicating it ad-infinitum.

(Disclaimer: I graduated as engineer but live as a programmer, so it's common knowledge. Obviously, a lame hardware is cheaper to design than a great plugin, but you get the picture)


Think about it: when you duplicate a plugin, money goes nowhere and you can always buy it later because it's good (and because piracy is lame).

When you buy copied hardware, money that could go into Research & Development & Marketing (in order to make a standard, because it does matter that Pro Tools is a standard) goes to some company (probably chinese or from some other country) that probably doesn't really give a sh*t about quality control and never had to spend a dime on R&D & Marketing...

I'm used to selling products to serious individuals/companies, who will shell out the money required no matter what. Serious studios are serious. Amateur/bedroom software-users (they're not engineers), I don't care. If someone came tomorrow, copied my product in order to gain profit and all my clients went with it, I'd be very pissed. If it's just some kid testing the thing? Who cares, maybe he'll own a studio or become an executive someday and buy my stuff...

--

Too long/Dont read? ---> Clone industry is harmful because it takes money away from the right hands/right countries, while plugin piracy is wrong too but money doesn't go anywhere and could turn into a sale later.

--

Sorry for the rant - Had to get it out... -, and sorry if there are any mistakes. English isn't my main language.


Giovanni De Laurentis

[gideon352]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

I'm guessing your being sarcastic because, nothing against the guy but Obama cannot cure piracy. A long as there are servers in Russia, Algeria, and Indonesia, piracy will continue its present course since young people will still looking for for 'that free music shit'.

If he wants to do something good, then he should get our troops outta the war.

I was not being sarcastic at all. The Obama administration is going after piracy both domestic and foreign. No kidding. It's a matter of national security that we do so. The Obama administration is going after piracy
fervently.

I understand that it's hard to imagine an America without piracy right now. It's been facilitated and or looked over for so long. That's all over now. Steps are in process to stop it completely.
It will take a little time, but it will happen.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by gla

Isn't the "clone industry" way more harmful than Piracy itself? I believe the fact that pretty much all recording engineers who paid for plugins are really mad about plugin piracy is because they paid for it in the first place, instead of being mad for moral reasons and stuff like that.

I think it's a bit of both. If you can get all the plugins that I bought for free, you've stolen from me. Because my plugins have less value. Anyone who pays for plugins are overpaying because of piracy. It's morally wrong and you're stealing from me.

Originally Posted by gla

Recently I've heard of Mackie desks that "pretend" to be a MBox or M-Audio gear, or Apogee, Mytek, Prism, Lynx and iZcorp converters that pretends to behave as TDM Card... plus we all know about plugins that emulate old hardware, or maybe even current hardware. And what about Telecaster copies or Les Paul copies that creep the market... What about Microphone or Pre-Amp clones?

What about ebay? You can buy used items for much less and the manufacturer gets nothing.

Originally Posted by gla

The Apogee/Mackie thing strikes me as TOO similar to the Pro Tools HD crack thing early this year, because both were "reverse engineering that fools the software, but doesn't really modify it" (a quote from a AVID guy).

But is it illegal?

Originally Posted by gla

Think about it: when you duplicate a plugin, money goes nowhere and you can always buy it later because it's good (and because piracy is lame).

But the money usually doesn't go nowhere. Use music for example. When people don't pay for music, they can afford to buy the newest iPod or iPhone. So it goes somewhere.

Originally Posted by gla

When you buy copied hardware, money that could go into Research & Development & Marketing (in order to make a standard, because it does matter that Pro Tools is a standard) goes to some company (probably chinese or from some other country) that probably doesn't really give a sh*t about quality control and never had to spend a dime on R&D & Marketing...

That is true for Mackie vs. Behringer but not so sure about Digidesign vs. Apogee/Aurora. They still have to build a convertor. The convertor is not a clone. It just interfaces with other gear. I can't imagine that it cost much less to figure out how to interface with HD cards than it did for Digidesign to do it. I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by gla

Too long/Dont read? ---> Clone industry is harmful because it takes money away from the right hands/right countries, while plugin piracy is wrong too but money doesn't go anywhere and could turn into a sale later.

Shopping at Walmart is wrong for many of the same reasons but the topic gets too broad. What's easier to discuss in this thread is the idea that pirates are getting the exact same product (not similar) for zero money. Not a discounted price.

This in no way is meant to discount your point. I thank you for it.

[joeydego]

the piracy crowd will never realize the most basic principle in the debate which ends the entire thread: stealing is WRONG.

[gla]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I think it's a bit of both. If you can get all the plugins that I bought for free, you've stolen from me. Because my plugins have less value. Anyone who pays for plugins are overpaying because of piracy. It's morally wrong and you're stealing from me.

That's actually a nice point!

What about ebay? You can buy used items for much less and the manufacturer gets nothing.

I'd still say it is fair, economically speaking. There's absolutely no "stealing" of technology/reputation here.

But is it illegal?

I wouldn't say it's "illegal", but it goes against the licensing of Pro Tools HD software, as far as I've heard about it.

Some kinds of "piracy" such as the Pro Tools unlocking would fall into the same gray area, but still piracy. Same with "unlocking" a demo with time-reset stuff - illega? Dunno, but that's cracking, AND you're breaking the EULA. Same with installing the plugin on multiple machines when you're licensed to only one. Not illegal, but breaking the EULA, which I'd also consider a form of piracy.

Illegal? Grey area. Piracy? Not as grey, IMO...

But the money usually doesn't go nowhere. Use music for example. When people don't pay for music, they can afford to buy the newest iPod or iPhone. So it goes somewhere.

I think there's a difference here, because music piracy generates almost zero revenue on the long term, while plugin piracy might become some kind of "gateway drug", simply because it is virtually impossible to work *professionally* with pirated plugins today Without support, upgrades, stability and with legal pressures (which are heavy where I live - I know because my company is in an anti-software-piracy syndicate)...

Notice that I'm not justifying piracy here. I'm just saying that actually making money from other kinds of "piracy" is worse than "free piracy" itself.

That is true for Mackie vs. Behringer but not so sure about Digidesign vs. Apogee/Aurora. They still have to build a convertor. The convertor is not a clone. It just interfaces with other gear. I can't imagine that it cost much less to figure out how to interface with HD cards than it did for Digidesign to do it. I could be wrong.

I don't think we can narrow down just to research costs, because there's a lot of marketing involved, and positive marketing at that, because you can just walking into virtually any studios and be 90% sure they will have the (Pro) Tools you need... which is cool...

But anyways, it's just like chinese manufacturers who manufacture cloned iPhones... but when it comes to music engineering, cloning and copying is not only allowed, but enforced... not for educational reasons, but for commercial reasons...

What I don't really get the part where using illegitimate software for education is worse than copying stuff for profit.

Shopping at Walmart is wrong for many of the same reasons but the topic gets too broad. What's easier to discuss in this thread is the idea that pirates are getting the exact same product (not similar) for zero money. Not a discounted price.

I think the "wrong" thing about piracy is that money isn't going into the right hands, simply as that...

Again, I'm really an altruist, so I don't really care about how much people paid for it, only if the company is receiving what it deservers. If Apple decides tomorrow that Macs are half the price for everyone, I'll be pissed, but at least in peace because I paid the right amount for it when I bought it.

This in no way is meant to discount your point. I thank you for it.

And I thank you for understanding it, it's really nice to know that Gearslutz is welcome to every opinions, unlike forums that criticize you guys

[Tangible]

Originally Posted by psalad

I agree with most of what you guys have written in this thread, but these kinds of comments have always bothered me. If you allow the government to overstep the their bounds (i.e., going against the words or spirit of the constitution), then you open up a can of worms that can never be closed. History has shown it has taken a revolution for an entity with power to give up any of their power (I'm meaning this in the bigger sense... not meaning a politician, but meaning the executive branch for example).

yeah, that's the kind of talk to worry any non naive person. There will always be crime, that doesn't mean that law enforcement shouldn't have some restrictions outside of preventing an imminent attack on national security.

[gideon352]

Originally Posted by Tangible

yeah, that's the kind of talk to worry any non naive person. There will always be crime, that doesn't mean that law enforcement shouldn't have some restrictions outside of preventing an imminent attack on national security.

Calling anyone naive for not being alarmist nor paranoid
doesn't help your argument.

If you were born after 1936 in the United States, you were issued a social security number. This number is used mainly for taxation purposes, however it is also used to log other financial, educational and medical information about you. In fact, Senator Lindsey Grahm is proposing to also use our social security numbers in the United States as a biometric identification card.

Hear the black helicopters? Paranoid yet?

Well, most of us are not.

Why? Because we're naive? Because we don't care?
No. Because we also understand that there are laws in place that protect the citizens of the United States and prevent the federal government from abusing power. Or any law enforcement agency for that matter.

The United States is a complex country. We have complex issues, therefore we need complex solutions.

[Darkspeed]

I assumed all plug-ins and software was free. It always has been for me! Piracy is the ONLY good thing about the internet. Why do you pay for your internet service each month? For Facebook? Good lord. If downloading something was actually stealing I'd feel bad about it. I don't so it's not. I've never stolen anything from anybody in my life. This information superhighway is ours to use to it's fullest. Some people are Luddites when it comes to using it to utmost potential. Download the shit out of every last bit of data you can get your mitts on. Life is too short. Demonoid registrations are open.....

[Suda Badri]

Originally Posted by Darkspeed

I assumed all plug-ins and software was free. It always has been for me! Piracy is the ONLY good thing about the internet. Why do you pay for your internet service each month? For Facebook? Good lord. If downloading something was actually stealing I'd feel bad about it. I don't so it's not. I've never stolen anything from anybody in my life. This information superhighway is ours to use to it's fullest. Some people are Luddites when it comes to using it to utmost potential. Download the shit out of every last bit of data you can get your mitts on. Life is too short. Demonoid registrations are open.....

FTW??? If the intarwebs was a bar, would you be hanging in the toilet in the hope someone drops a pill so you can snatch it up? or slurp up drinks that are being spilt on the floor? Cuz you know that happens a lot, you would never have to pay for a drink ever again!!!

Also, if a drink was left unattened for a minute and someone put a date rape drug in there, by your philosophy is it the fault of the girl who left her drink unattended?

And what is meant to motivate the artists/manufacturers to create amazing media if no one shows appreciation by giving them a livelihood?

[gideon352]

Originally Posted by psalad

I get your point. I don't think the social security number is the same thing as monitoring people's internet traffic without probable cause (for example). I think the checks and balances in the constitution have done us pretty well in the US, and I'd hate to see people give up their privacy of data just to placate an industry.

I know some people think the solution to piracy will not be anything that requires something like this. However, that remains to be seen. I wouldn't put it past out government to do something like this... carnivore anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software)

Your ISP can trace you as we type. Everything you do online can be (and in some cases is) monitored and logged right now as you type. This is not new. No probable cause needed. You agree to it when you agree to your ISP service agreement.

[Suda Badri]

In NZ, police have full authority to gain access to all your internet traffic, your personal emails, text messages... so long as they get a warrant...

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by psalad

I agree with most of what you guys have written in this thread, but these kinds of comments have always bothered me. If you allow the government to overstep the their bounds (i.e., going against the words or spirit of the constitution), then you open up a can of worms that can never be closed. History has shown it has taken a revolution for an entity with power to give up any of their power (I'm meaning this in the bigger sense... not meaning a politician, but meaning the executive branch for example).

As I've said, I'm not allowing anything. I didn't vote for the Patriot Act. I didn't vote for this war. If the pirates stop, the Govt will have no excuse. But we both know that that won't happen.

[gideon352]

Originally Posted by psalad

ISP yes, government no.

Point taken, as long as you understand that a private company can monitor all of your private data now with no warrant.

I'm well aware of that famous Sinclair Lewis quote.
You have every right to question your government.
It's healthy in a democracy.
Sometimes, however, practicality can trump absolute ideology.

Context is everything. It may get confusing keeping track of every rule in every situation, but like I said, we are a complex nation.

[zephonic]

piracy = bad
police state = bad

none of it matters.

2012 we all die

[W-W-Int]

Originally Posted by gideon352

I understand that it's hard to imagine an America without piracy right now. It's been facilitated and or looked over for so long. That's all over now. Steps are in process to stop it completely.
It will take a little time, but it will happen.

you are fooling yourself. the obama administration like the bush administration before it isn't at all concerned with piracy. it's concerned with appeasing it's campaign contributors the mpaa and riaa. they want to make more money off you the citizen. the only thing that's gonna happen is that recording boxes bought legitimatly in the u.s. will end up with the ability to delete material at the discretion of someone else other than the consumer. basically it means if you play by the rules hbo can prevent you from not buying tru blood on dvd by deleting it from your dvr, or the nfl can finally block that recording they always wanted to.

steps have been taken to stop piracy already. lets see did drm work? how about scms? how about not being able to copy blu-ray? or dvd before it? etc... if there is a way to do it someone out there will find it and the knowledge will spread until it's common place to simply download xxxx utility and copy yyyyy media.


the problem i see is that the steps to fight the new big evil "piracy" are the same steps to limit your ability to watch/listen/play etc... without paying extra to do so on something else. the dmca was originally enacted to stop dvd and cd ripping so you had to buy the movie or song twice to play it on your ipod. not to protect anybodies intellectual property from being stolen as it doesn't mean diddly to a the pirates. it just means legitimate buisnesses couldn't make software that allowed you to transfer stuff to your portable player unless it was an ipod or similar device that payed the riaa and mpaa the ransom to allow the software like itunes to do so.

[Tangible]

Originally Posted by gideon352

Calling anyone naive for not being alarmist nor paranoid
doesn't help your argument.

If you were born after 1936 in the United States, you were issued a social security number. This number is used mainly for taxation purposes, however it is also used to log other financial, educational and medical information about you. In fact, Senator Lindsey Grahm is proposing to also use our social security numbers in the United States as a biometric identification card.

Hear the black helicopters? Paranoid yet?

Well, most of us are not.

Why? Because we're naive? Because we don't care?
No. Because we also understand that there are laws in place that protect the citizens of the United States and prevent the federal government from abusing power. Or any law enforcement agency for that matter.

The United States is a complex country. We have complex issues, therefore we need complex solutions.

that the people have given up more and more of their liberties isn't something to be championing. It just shows the populace easily gives up their privileges if you can fool them that the world would descend into chaos without it. I remind you that a lot of these laws are penned by the same jerks we see on TV, doing whatever and saying whatever to win political points and appease those who donate to their campaigns.

[Tangible]

Originally Posted by psalad

Life is too short to take advantage of the work of others without compensation just because you can. I can't change your mind, but I hope eventually you'll grow up and realize people who create would like to be compensated for their work. If you were to create something of value, maybe you would understand?

why do people who don't view copyright like you need to grow up? Many sociologist and scholars don't think that having a free for all on the internet is a bad thing culturally at all. We don't have to agree on everything, but let's not act like people are being childish because they don't view this issue the same way you do. I thought we were born with the capability to be free thinking individuals, not slaves to whatever is political to say or whatever economic system we grew up in. I understand that this is Gearslutz, but let's not act like that there aren't tons of people in the real world who don't view downloading a song off the net as a big moral issue.

*disclaimer: I don't think it should be a free for all, but we should find some reasonable ground between the two extremes.

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

That's why treaties like ACTA are important. It is also why countries like Australia and the US are developing infrastructure to IP block foreign entities that violate international law.

But it's impossible to inforce it. Block it from coming into the US... Hmm.. that would make our government the same as China. What else would they block/monitor besides piracy? Everything, we would be handing our entire lives into the control of a police state, period. Besides, getting around IP blocks isn't hard, I've done it in China numerous times to access certain sites deemed 'bad' according to their government (to access YouTube and FaceBook, by the way).

There's NO WAY the US can enforce a policy that would be accepted by all countries/territories in the world. It's not about policy, it's the issue of sovereignty, and there are countries that will refuse just on the fact that the USA wants to do it.

It's sad but that's the way it is.

Originally Posted by EFF

maybe you missed this:



we will stop piracy at our borders - as mobious mentioned, and ACTA.

Again, that would only happen in the US but it would be very very very hard for the US to demand another sovereign state, say Iran, Cuba, North Korea (if they had any), and even China, to close a website.

Piracy is a universal issue. That's why it's too damn hard to fix it.

[Synæsthesiac]

Originally Posted by Tangible

why do people who don't view copyright like you need to grow up? Many sociologist and scholars don't think that having a free for all on the internet is a bad thing culturally at all. We don't have to agree on everything, but let's not act like people are being childish because they don't view this issue the same way you do. I thought we were born with the capability to be free thinking individuals, not slaves to whatever is political to say or whatever economic system we grew up in. I understand that this is Gearslutz, but let's not act like that there aren't tons of people in the real world who don't view downloading a song off the net as a big moral issue.

*disclaimer: I don't think it should be a free for all, but we should find some reasonable ground between the two extremes.

Tangible, you're a god among gods but unfortunately swimming in a sea of ******s on this thread. Keep it up. I'm not good at debate with faux-intellectuals. I just get pissed off.

For the record for all you who are wondering who the hell this whack job is: I am a professional artist, composer, producer, educator, mix engineer, studio owner, studio bassist, multi-instrumentalist, performer, doctor of music, husband, and father.

I do not support stealing either. I also do not believe that 'piracy' is a serious issue.

Peace.

[DaVinci]

It's difficult to understand how anyone could view billions of dollars worth of stolen property to not be a serious issue.

It seems pretty obvious that anyone who feels that way has no property of their own being stolen.

As an artist, I can attest that bringing my product to the point of distribution has cost me:

Hundreds of thousands of dollars: I have turned down jobs twice that paid $150k or more per year because they would not allow me the time to focus on my music.

Tens of thousands of hours: Years of 18 hour days with an obsessive focus that most people couldn't handle for an hour.

Training: Years of manic focus to learn audio engineering, teach myself to play all the instruments, vocal lessons, etc... another six figures paid and years invested in this line alone.

Relationships: Countless fights, relationships ended, divorce etc... over my belief that I MUST keep going no matter what happens with label, etc... that my music will provide a living no matter how much I need to go through to get there.

Marketing investment: Press kits, travel expenses, website development, cd pressings, many costs involved in shooting a music video, etc.

In all, if you ignore the lost wages I've been offered, and take only the actual money spent, and figure my time invested at minimum wage, I've got near a million dollars worth of time and money into getting my music out. For this, I have lived in near poverty, been divorced, and traded nearly every creature comfort.














All this is traded for one thing: the ability to make a living from selling the result of all that effort... and I know plenty of other artists and developers whose stories are the same.




















If you are going to take something for free that does not belong to you, you can spin it in your mind however you wish... but now you know the truth... about what you are taking and who you are taking it from.