CLA on using cracks

[Kenny Gioia]

I really think that clean drinking water has nothing to do with this or any thread on Gearslutz.

"Should I buy a new microphone or give my money to an impoverished nation".

Come on.

[Stuart Coleco]

Originally Posted by kingocounty

I'm a firm believer that the only thing you can ever change is yourself, and thus change is up to the individual.

In lieu of a holocaust, I find a good dump of snow works pretty well. If we get a few feet, I go and shovel out everyone within a few blocks who looks like they need a hand. Now I know my neighbours and you can be sure they look out for me. If you live in a warm climate, maybe drag your push-mower around...

Sorry for the touchy-feely, non-pirating related post. Don't steal software, people work very hard making it. If you don't like a company's business practices, find one you do like and support them, or try writing your own code.

thumbsup

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jabo

Am I comming across to you like this ? World suffering affects me, yes.

I think CLA's PSA is a bit silly. Nobody's stealing his plugs. IMO his signature plugs and presets sound like crap. That's why nobody is buying or stealing his shit. . Obviously something in the Industry is affecting CLA or he wouldn't feel the need to comment in this manner. What is it ?

I have that feeling that he got caught with some cracks and his punishment was to do that video.

I really think his frustration is less about "his" plugins and more about the (or his) industry.

I'm guessing here but having a signature series plugin collection is less about making a percentage of each sale and more about "Now everybody knows who CLA is". At least compared to what he charges to mix a song.

I think (guessing again) that Waves overall does pretty well. Which means his collection does pretty well. So I can't imagine that their numbers are far lower than expected.

But it can be frustrating to know that a lot more people are using your plugins than paid for them.

[Stuart Coleco]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

It can be frustrating to know that a lot more people are using your plugins than paid for them.

That's it right there. That statement spans so much further than plugins.

it's frustrating to know so many more people are listening to your music then paid for it.

I'm sure it's a bit frustrating to Neve that every chinese manufacturer is out to clone there products.

This statement even spans to handbags and sun glasses etc.

We know theft is real. It sucks. We all have to adapt to it.

[3rd world order]

the problem is poverty. our whole planet is being squeezed from the top by bankers.

chris's lil rant was funny and strangely naive.

[Synæsthesiac]

WHY is CLA saying this stuff? Because he is working for WAVES! God knows how much he is getting paid to slap his name on things.

I would say it too if in his shoes. He has a point but only from his point of view. There are as many right and wrong reasons to use plugs you didn't purchase as there are people using those plugs. Maybe someday we can all get together and figure out a solution.

I bought his comps and the JJP eq's and comps, and don't regret them. They are really sweet. Waves either does brilliant work or terrible work (which they should pay us to crack) These Waves all-in-one I gonna sound like CLA! plugs were a tacky stupid idea and are not worth the money.

CLA is overrated and his presets stink. I'll hire TLA anyday over his whiner brother.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jabo

I'm sure it's a bit frustrating to Neve that every chinese manufacturer is out to clone there products.

This statement even spans to handbags and sun glasses etc.

That's not really the same thing. There is more value to owning a real Neve product or a Kate Spade hand bag.

There's very little benefit to owning a legitimate license for a piece of software.

So you're not competing with "cheap" knock-offs. You're competing with "free" copies. There's just no way.

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

That's not really the same thing. There is more value to owning a real Neve product or a Kate Spade hand bag.

Not to mention the major gear clones we see today are legitimate and legal since the classic design patents are all expired. Not the same at all.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Synæsthesiac

There are as many right and wrong reasons to use plugs you didn't purchase as there are people using those plugs.

Can you list just a few "right" reasons to use a plug that you didn't purchase?

I can't think of any.

BTW - Waves has extended my trial period on their demos twice to accommodate my evaluation process.

[Stuart Coleco]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

There's very little benefit to owning a legitimate license for a piece of software.

So you're not competing with "cheap" knock-offs. You're competing with "free" copies. There's just no way.

Agreed that's why company's like SSL and UA went with proprietary equipment to go with their plugs. They adapted. That's why PT is proprietary too. Even if you can steal it it won't work.

As far as Waves I bet their share of the market is 3 to 1 compared with SSL and UA. I think some of the piracy helps Waves. When every home studio has waves plugs then everyone wants Waves plugs. Brand recognition goes a long way. The majority of people pay for their plugs because either their decent people or can't figure out the cracks. There is a minority that do have cracks but, it's sorta paid marketing for Waves. I think without them Waves wouldn't be the "it brand" they are today.

[Stuart Coleco]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

BTW - Waves has extended my trial period on their demos twice to accommodate my evaluation process.

Inquiring minds want to know...Did you simply ask them for an exstension?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jabo

Agreed that's why company's like SSL and UA went with proprietary equipment to go with their plugs. They adapted. That's why PT is proprietary too. Even if you can steal it it won't work.

Not directing this at you but the ones who constantly scream at us all to "adapt" are the same one's complaining about companies that are tied to hardware like Pro Tools. There's no winning. At least not with thieves.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jabo

Inquiring minds want to know...Did you simply ask them for an exstension?

Yes. Nothing special.

Waves is actually a great company to deal with. I just don't like their pricing structure.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Not directing this at you but the ones who constantly scream at us all to "adapt" are the same one's complaining about companies that are tied to hardware like Pro Tools. There's no winning. At least not with thieves.

Exactly. No matter what these companies do, plugins or music companies, they are evil and therefore it's ok to steal from them. Waves is continuing to make a very extensive suite of plugs available natively, despite the dangers, and that means that they aren't adapting, and they are also greedy bastards per all the comments here. But a company that ties you to their hardware, and charges much more per plugin, is not?

[TRA]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Yes. Nothing special.

Waves is actually a great company to deal with. I just don't like their pricing structure.

+1

CLA says in his video "If I can't afford a piece of gear I borrow it." Can't a pirate argue they are just borrowing since software isn't physical and a wipe of a hard drive makes it go away?

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by TRA

+1

CLA says in his video "If I can't afford a piece of gear I borrow it." Can't a pirate argue they are just borrowing since software isn't physical and a wipe of a hard drive makes it go away?

He borrowed a legitimately purchased piece of gear. That's not what a pirate is doing. He's using an unpurchased version.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by TRA

+1

CLA says in his video "If I can't afford a piece of gear I borrow it." Can't a pirate argue they are just borrowing since software isn't physical and a wipe of a hard drive makes it go away?

borrow the ilok w/ the license on it - that's why they are designed that way - or ask your friend to transfer the licenses to your ilok...

[Synæsthesiac]

Originally Posted by TRA

+1

CLA says in his video "If I can't afford a piece of gear I borrow it." Can't a pirate argue they are just borrowing since software isn't physical and a wipe of a hard drive makes it go away?

CLA can afford anything he wants.

[Synæsthesiac]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Can you list just a few "right" reasons to use a plug that you didn't purchase?

I can't think of any.

BTW - Waves has extended my trial period on their demos twice to accommodate my evaluation process.

You're missing my point, but here's a few anyway:

1-Getting WUP'ed
2-Not wanting to take my precious fragile stone age iloks to the cabin where I like to hide out and make music.
3-The inner city teens I tought bass, sax, mpc, and production skills to who are frighteningly gifted and talented but will never be able to buy anything ever.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by Synæsthesiac

3-The inner city teens I tought bass, sax, mpc, and production skills to who are frighteningly gifted and talented but will never be able to buy anything ever.

Who can of course use Reaper and any number of freebie plugins, so there's zero justification for stealing anything.

[joeydego]

If you shop around, the CLA bundle works out to roughly 100 bucks a plugin. Some comps are 3x as much. As long as you keep a working OS, you will NEVER have to pay for WUP. I don't understand what is so hard to comrehend about that. You never have to pay it unless you want to upgrade an OS. Be happy the product is still supported for it and isn't unuseable.

[MichaelAngelo]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

That's not really the same thing. There is more value to owning a real Neve product or a Kate Spade hand bag.

There's very little benefit to owning a legitimate license for a piece of software.

So you're not competing with "cheap" knock-offs. You're competing with "free" copies. There's just no way.

You know what is really funny... is all the plugins will be worth NOTHING, in several years.. With technology advancements somebody will come up with better sounding plugs and the old ones will be like a old computer....

[Tangible]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

Really? I thought pirates wanted the abolition of private IP and government mandated net neutrality? So I suppose if we had to categorize, they are selective communists? They will support capitalism for physical goods, but communism for anything intangible or copyright related.

Sorry, but not respecting copyright is more so a form of anarcho-capitalism or libertarianism. It has absolutely nothing to do with communism. An anarcho-capitalist view of copyright and patents is that they are coercive privileges granted by the state and people should have the right to copy stuff if they have the means to do it. In a truly free market, copyrights wouldn't be enforceable. An anarcho-capitalist would only recognize trademarks.

Everything that isn't supportive of our current economic system isn't communist. Please stop using the term when you have obviously no idea what it really entails. There are more than just two economic views in the world you know.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

You know what is really funny... is all the plugins will be worth NOTHING, in several years.. With technology advancements somebody will come up with better sounding plugs and the old ones will be like a old computer....

That's not really true. It's just as likely that the company you bought them from will continue to improve them (one of the reasons that pros deal with companies like Waves because of the long term survival prospects) and that you will get those improvements (as an existing customer) much more cheaply than if you had to buy those plugs new.

Yes, it's possible that some company will come up with something completely new. But the same would apply to hardware as well. That's always a risk. And the same almost certainly applies to the computer you are using now, the A/D interface, etc... But you buy them anyway because they are useful now, even though they won't be nearly as upgradeable and will have a far shorter life than the plugins.

[Tangible]

Originally Posted by EFF

so you haven't actually read anything mr lanier has wrtten, and don't know who he is... the principle at work is called digital moaism.

Piracy has nothing in common with communism, so the author has no idea what he's talking about, I don't need a bio.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by Tangible

In a truly free market, copyrights wouldn't be enforceable. An anarcho-capitalist would only recognize trademarks.

That's not true. If copyrights weren't enforceable, it wouldn't be a market. A market is where people make something and then sell it to buyers. If it's just being stolen, it's not a market. And if copyright wouldn't be enforced, then a number of other similar restrictions shouldn't have to be either, and you would not only have not a market, you wouldn't have much of an economy, or a socieity.

Why would it be ok to not enforce copyright, but then have it be illegal to print money? Or to create knockoffs of physical goods and sell them as the real thing? Neither of those things take the original items away from their owners.

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by Tangible

Sorry, but not respecting copyright is more so a form of anarcho-capitalism or libertarianism. It has absolutely nothing to do with communism. An anarcho-capitalist view of copyright and patents is that they are coercive privileges granted by the state and people should have the right to copy stuff if they have the means to do it. In a truly free market, copyrights wouldn't be enforceable. An anarcho-capitalist would only recognize trademarks.

Everything that isn't supportive of our current economic system isn't communist. Please stop using the term when you have obviously no idea what it really entails. There are more than just two economic views in the world you know.

Alright well let's see how we can lay these out:

Anarchist communism is a theory of anarchism which advocates the abolition of the state, private property, and capitalism in favor of common ownership of the means of production,[1][2] direct democracy and a horizontal network of voluntary associations and workers' councils with production and consumption. Some forms of anarchist communism are egoist and strongly influenced by radical individualism,[11] believing that anarchist communism does not require a communitarian nature at all. But most other forms of anarchist communism are communal and see human beings as social vessels that contribute to a greater collective whole.

Anarcho-capitalism is an individualist anarchist[1] political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state and the elevation of the sovereign individual in a free market. In an anarcho-capitalist society, law enforcement, courts, and all other security services would be provided by voluntarily-funded competitors such as private defense agencies rather than through taxation, and money would be privately and competitively provided in an open market. According to anarcho-capitalists, personal and economic activities would be regulated by the natural laws of the market and through private law rather than through politics. Furthermore, victimless crimes and crimes against the state would not exist.

Most pirates sound more like anarcho-communists when they talk about this stuff to me. But I don't see why it would matter.

[Synæsthesiac]

Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo

You know what is really funny... is all the plugins will be worth NOTHING, in several years.. With technology advancements somebody will come up with better sounding plugs and the old ones will be like a old computer....

We should go bowling.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by Tangible

Piracy has nothing in common with communism, so the author has no idea what he's talking about, I don't need a bio.

Well, given that you didn't read it, you don't even know if he means piracy, or the broader trends that I mentioned earlier, of which piracy is just a manifestation or related issue.

[Tangible]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

That's not true. If copyrights weren't enforceable, it wouldn't be a market. A market is where people make something and then sell it to buyers. If it's just being stolen, it's not a market. And if copyright wouldn't be enforced, then a number of other similar restrictions shouldn't have to be either, and you would not only have not a market, you wouldn't have much of an economy, or a socieity.

In the fashion industry, it's legal to take ideas, yet there's a market. In all utility industries, it is legal to take designs, yet there is a market. In a truly free market, the government would not tell you that you couldn't create something with your own hands, simply because it matched what someone else created with their own hands.

Not respecting copyright is perfectly consistent with anarcho-capitalism.

Why would it be ok to not enforce copyright, but then have it be illegal to print money? Or to create knockoffs of physical goods and sell them as the real thing? Neither of those things take the original items away from their owners.

Once again, in anarcho-capitalist society, there would be respect of trademark, but not copyright. If you created knock offs or printed money, it would be perfectly legitimate as long as you made it known that they were not of the original brand. So if you copied money and put "Fake bank," or you copied clothing designs and put your own brand, it would be perfectly legitimate in a capitalistic system.