Interface-RME or FronteirDesign?

[Infernal Device]

I am looking to move into Nuendo. I am looking for some i/o options.

I have heard about the RME stuff and the FronteirDesigns Dakota/Tango.

Opinions??

Those are both in my price range.

THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

[jcschild]

RME or Lynx.

the frontier stuff only does 48k no 96k, decent converters but the others are better

Scott
ADK

[Stixxs]

jcs,

Between the RME Fireface and Aurora???

[Slaytex]

Originally Posted by Stixxs

jcs,

Between the RME Fireface and Aurora???

Both! Actually I have the Fireface and it kicks ass, but I'm looking to add the Aurora in a little bit for 16 more in's and out's.

Hey 100 posts. I'm almost cool!

[jcschild]

HI,
the combo of Lynx AES16 and the Aurora 16 are near impossible to beat for sonic quality. i find them better than Apogee.

when doing mulitples of these clock locks can be interesting.

control panel interface and monitoring could be improved.

RME Fireface is killer for the money very useable mic pres, great converters and Total Mix software is killer, much better routing abilty, driver support killer.

both companies have great support and are fairly easily accessable.

of course your pro audio dealer should be your first support call, and if they cant support you, you may be buying from the wrong peeps.


Scott
ADK

[Infernal Device]

So for the same price, I can get a fireface or a Fronteir Dakota/Tango PCI box combo.

Would a fireface work for real tracking or is the firewire gonna slow me down?

I like the idea of RME doing it all in one unit, but I am shy to firewire only going into the PC instead of optical into a PCI.

Help?

[thenoodle]

I can't figure out why more people don't use the Layla 3g. It has great convertors, works well with any clock, is pci-e compatible, reasonably priced etc.

I have 3 of them + Ai-3s in a pc here with Nuendo and it's just great. All the i/o one could ever need plus much faster throughput compared to firewire...even Echo's own firewire stuff.

[jcschild]

HI,

the Layla 3G IS NOT PCIE compatible
PCI-X perhaps.

personally i have issues with thier drivers, converters arent any where as good as RME FIreface/Lynx.

if i were to recommend in the price range it would be Presonus hands down.

as to the Fireface i have enabled all 26 tracks for record with no issues
on firewire 400 bus.

Scott
ADK

[Midlandmorgan]

If it means anything....

For the studio, I use the Fireface800 and have the recently advertised Tango coming here for additional IO via the Fireface's optical IO ports...also have an Octopre with convertor card in there

Gives me 24 in, 16 out analog, they reportedly clock together nicely, and the master can be sent out via SPDIF/AES....

Best of both worlds really....and FWIW after dabbling in 96K for a while, realized the vast majority of what we do doesn't warrant the higher rates - but if I do need it at some point, I can get 12 ins and 8 outs....not too shabby at all.

[Infernal Device]

Originally Posted by jcschild

as to the Fireface i have enabled all 26 tracks for record with no issues
on firewire 400 bus.

Whoa..really?? I am a newbie, and moving into Nuendo, but all I have been told is firewire is not pro and should not be used for serious tracking/overdubs.

Question..what is your pc setup??

Thank you again for all the responses.

[Midlandmorgan]

Originally Posted by Infernal Device

Whoa..really?? I am a newbie, and moving into Nuendo, but all I have been told is firewire is not pro and should not be used for serious tracking/overdubs.

Question..what is your pc setup??

Thank you again for all the responses.

This is a common myth about FW...IMO it works, it works well, and can a part of any pro shop...few years ago 'they' said the same thing about optical, which turned out to become a respected (and still viable) means of getting from one place to another...same with FW...

although we are a small shop, we are very serious about all aspects of the process...

Granted, FW may not be as stable with huge track counts as a dedicated AES system, but I work on a daily basis with projects going 30-45 tracks with no problem whatsoever in FW...granted, I've yet to use it in a situation in which I tracked 40 at one time-not much call for that in West Texas-but have done 18 at once with nary a problem.

Ask yourself - would top of the line people like Apogee invest into FW if it were not a viable 'pro' platform?

My main PC is an off the shelf Compaq, 2.67G P4, maxed out memory, tweaked to disable/eliminate all the stuff not needed for audio, never seen the internet, Samplitude 8.2, UAD, etc....Anatec FW/PCI card...two internal drives (one OS the other pure audio) and I connect whatever FW drive I need for the projects at hand, backup to USB drives.

Just a tip: if you are a 'newbie' to audio, then chances are you will not be engaged in 40+ simultaneous tracking ventures set for major label or movie release ... buy a step or two up from what you think you'll need, and you will be OK...and the better (RME) stuff works great...

Good luck with your venture.

[Stixxs]

Originally Posted by Midlandmorgan

If it means anything....

For the studio, I use the Fireface800 and have the recently advertised Tango coming here for additional IO via the Fireface's optical IO ports...also have an Octopre with convertor card in there

Midlandmorgan,

Sure it means something!

...Any of the examples on your site demonstrate the Fireface converters in action?

[Midlandmorgan]

Not yet...those were all done with either the Presonus Firepod (not a bad unit at all in its own right) and/or the Focusrite conversion card with some better pres...

When I get a few extra moments I'll post some....and thanks for asking.

[Stixxs]

Not yet...those were all done with either the Presonus Firepod (not a bad unit at all in its own right) and/or the Focusrite conversion card with some better pres...

Absolutly very "analog" sounding.

When I get a few extra moments I'll post some....and thanks for asking.[/

Excellent... 'm sure we all would like to hear what all the positive hooplas about.

[George Necola]

I vote for:

RME HDSP 956? and Multiface 2.. you can hook up 2 and have 16 in and 16 out.. its possible to have 3 but a lot of people have trouble with 3 multiface..

multiface rocks.. invest the rest of your cash into UAD-1 plugincard..



just another opinion from george it's not the only truth but you may think about it..

Aurora has to little lowend in my opinon.. bassarea missing.. dakota too old..

forget about this 96khz.. only marketing

my 0.02$

[thermos]

Really? Weak low end on the aurora. Say it ain't so! Is it just because the high end is better, or it just doesn't extend to the subby depths? What did you try it on?

[George Necola]

it's not "weak".. its just less compared to ADI-8 and apogee 800.. maybe the others are hyped??

signalchain was:
Source (computer: 24/48khz) ==> RME HDSP ==> ADI-8 / aurora (one or the other) ==> (digital on benchmark DAC..) with and without ==> ADAM S3-a (treated room)

I didnt want to make a big deal about that! This was just my 0.02$.. please try it yourself (mercenary has moneyback garantee we are not happy, till you are not happy).

maybe its because they sell it as "mastering converter"?? super flat?? I really dont know.. maybe my ears are wrong.. the room was wrong.. the source..

...

cheers

[Infernal Device]

Hey George...

I thought the Multiface IS a firewire unit, conncected through their own PCI card.

The HDSP would not do any good with the Multiface units, right??

[George Necola]

yes and no

there is a pseudofirewireslot, firewirecable but with RME-protocoll

The multiface is adat in/out.. so no problem.. hook it up with ADAT..

I'm running the multiface with a hammerfall hdsp 95?? card.. no problem

there is the PCI-card witch connects the multiface with the PC.. RME protocoll

the multiface CANT WORK as a standaloneconverter..

[jcschild]

if you go RME the converters on the fireface are better than Multiface 2.
more I/O and portable.

i have not heard any one say until now the Aurora's low end isnt good.
interesting....

Scott
ADK

[Infernal Device]

I just ordered the fireface. I should have it at the end of the week. THANK YOU !!!!!

[ekimeno]

Originally Posted by jcschild

if you go RME the converters on the fireface are better than Multiface 2.
more I/O and portable.

i have not heard any one say until now the Aurora's low end isnt good.
interesting....

Scott
ADK

I think this thing about the Aurora's low end not being good is a misunderstanding. A lot of people have checked out the Mercenary test between the Apogee Rosetta 800 and the Aurora. The conclusion was that both converters are excellent, its just that the Rosetta's low end was slightly better than the Aurora's, though the Aurora's highs were slightly better than the Rosetta's. Something like that anyway.

People who have the Aurora say it is really good...

[George Necola]

People who have the Aurora say it is really good...

and I didnt read the merc-test... and the interface didnt change my world.. maybe you have to record and mix something.. then see further.. and judge..

[slaves666]

Rme fireface. Best box for the $. Flexible and great drivers.

[George Necola]

..and maybe we should mention that the thread-starter went happy..

time to party

[ekimeno]

Originally Posted by George Necola

and I didnt read the merc-test... and the interface didnt change my world.. maybe you have to record and mix something.. then see further.. and judge..

True - I have yet to hear it for myself, but then again everyone has their own opinions...all ears are different. I for one am getting the Fireface in a couple of weeks based on the opinions of others, though I will be able to try it for a week before committing to it. I hope it smacks my 828 upside the head! I will try to listen objectively and not give in to group mentality... tutt

[David Ballenger]

I just got the RME Fireface800 and am very happy with it here. I also have the Tango 24 left over from former use with a Digi 001 (can't say how glad I am to have moved on from that unit) Everyone's complimenting the sound on the playback of the RME.

I’m a self produced musician (vocal/guitar/keys). I also have a band and I have a large studio room (1600 sq. ft with 17ft to 12 ft. sloping ceiling) and setup the band to record in a basic band configuration with baffles between drums / bass / guitar amp (boutique JTM45) / Reamp, Keyboard, guitar amp (vintage Marshall plexi). Vocal / PA are my ambience mics. If we want to do vocals later just do some of the takes where we don't sing.

The big surprise and benefit for me is the Total mix software for the no latency monitoring. I'm using Ableton Live 5 and a lot of midi controllers for remoteing and automation. So I'm able to go mixerless. Well my mackie mixer is now a hardware playback/ reverb/delay fx's return now into the RME. So now I'm able to monitor all the Record inputs and the hardware reverb returns through the mixer without latency issues. Even the PA speakers come off of a send from the Fireface Mixer. That's huge for me. Allows me to set my buffers large for safety. I use my external reverb units and I don't use any plugs when I'm recording the band. Just stream in recording about 14 inputs (god bless you Andy Johns for your drum micing technique and Sam my most excellent drummer).

I use the Live program and step on a button for incrementing Scenes. Live has what's called Session view and you trigger a scene to record or playback a section of music 1 second to 2 hours etc. That translates into seperate sets of sound files equalling seperate tracks on the cd when done with the session. The scenes get rendered with a quick mix to Itunes library and burned on CD's. Let everybody else involved sort out what’s to be distilled. Because 4 or 5 hours of playing with a real band has it's moments and previewing it is a logjamming nightmare otherwise. As far as the band goes if we don't do it right as a band what good is it to us anyway. Depth / dimensionality??? if it sounds right to us in the room it translates to the recording and saves a hell of a lot of work is what I'm happy to report. Self mixing to a very large and the most important degree comes from the players.

Now I have a lot of toys so I can produce eveything myself. More and more I look at it as just production tools to put icing on top of the cake. (Reason, Guitar Rig, Little Labs reamp, etc). Because when you’ve got a band you gotta let that pony run.

Now when I listen to stuff that I recorded on Digi 001. I see that the sound of a live recording of the band was colored, but still quite useable. I now look at all the stuff I tracked separately with suspicion. I’m thinking there is something about CLOCKING that really makes for multitracking a track at a time to having fidelity / depth of sound issues. The more tracks done separately the more inaccuracie. MY CHEAP OPINION. I’m no expert.

Bottom line the RME Fireface 800 suprised me in the best way for it’s functionality. (Maybe I’ll add some Apogee or Lavry converters into the RME next). It’s relative though. I get happier all the time this way.



Vision is always ahead of execution. Knowledge of materials is your contact with reality. Uncertainty is a virtue. -Art & Fear-

[unguitar]

Hi David,
did you try to connect the Frontier to FF adat ins/outs ?
I am also waiting to receive the FF and, having a Tango 24 as well, I am curious in an anticipation of the difference between these 2 converters ?
thanks,
luca

www.unguitar.com

[David Ballenger]

I've had the FF about a month now. About the tango. Hmmmm. I hook things up in hiearchy of importance. I guess as far as difficulty to record. As I develop and add pre's in importance. Learning what seems to work on which instruments best. I can say that everything in general just sounds way better. Maybe that's a lot to do with the Firefaces DA and I gotta say I've been converted to the concept of better clocking. I monitor with Yamaha NS10's and a subwoofer in my control room. Headphone amps (Rane) are coming off the FF D/A's

So going through the Tango has been the Bass rig. Useing an Aphex Tubessence 107 (not highly regarded I guess by some). The bass is a Washburn, to a Countryman DI for the direct out of the bass and then splits to Peavey Mark VI Bass amp with the 2-15 Peavey Black widow cab. Miced with an Electrovoice RE20. I was commenting to the bassist that I thought the bass was sounding some of the best in the last recordings. He agreed it sounded very authentic and natural. I choose no other mic any more then the RE20 for bass. It just has a beautiful sound and makes recording bass easy. The RE20 captures the full range and gets the real natural sound while with the DI; I blend in just as much as I need to get the low end and fatten it up. It's usually 2/3 mic and 1/3 DI.
I hadn't really stop untill now to think about which things were plugged into which A/D (after initially hooking everything up) so yeah even the Tango is sounding better. Clocking, Fireface D/A ??? probably both. I will also say that the Tango has always been completely a no brainer to hook up and use. You have to open the lid and move jumpers around the get +4 or -10. All the controls you need and just comes up recognized by the host unit.

Also the kick is coming up here on the Tango through a mod I did on my Mackie board awhile back that lets me use the first 8 channels as separate preamps. If you engage the channel mute button it no longer goes out the master buss but out the individual insert out only. This works for those 1st eight channels only. It's like getting a whole bunch of extra preamps for near nothing. The mic is an AKG D550; sometimes I use a Shure Beta 52 instead. Then through an FMR RNC compressor. Subwoofer in my monitoring system lets me here how much level I'm getting as far as low end. Seems to be a good signal. The overall balance of the elements I do are played live against each other so that's kind of self balancing.
My band is a traditional Rock band. So we're not into the super sub low bass; that would be to much and out of character for our sound. I agree with some of the opinions that I see on the net about the kick; that if more people were using a subwoofer they would realize how much low end they were adding and that the kick drum sound is really being represented and able to be mixed a lot more then some would realize. Instead of building this monstrous sub low kick only to carve it away and fight to fit it in. That's a different style of music from what we do.

Tango's coverter qualities in comparison to Apogee or others. I'm not one to comment with a great degree about. Although over the years I've been involved with a lot of studio's most were always based on Tape. Of the last 5 years I've been lost in my own self production hell. So I really do hear directly whether I like what I hear here or not and I've got to say that with the Fireface day by day a sense of relief has come over me that I'm finally happy with the sound quality. The vocals, electric gtr amps, drums, acoustic guitar sounds like a veil has been lifted. If it gets better then this then it really is "it's all good".

What else the Mackie Submixing returns / CD players / cassettes etc. into the Tango. Again no complaints seems to be fine and detailed. Tango D/A is going out sends to the Reverb units, Little Labs Reamp, PA monitors cabs. I can't see any problems at this point the sum total is what I'm noticing and it sounds dam good. Moving from using a Digi 001 here all I can say is the sound quality has moved into the hugely satisfied category and was more then worth the money. Again also the direct routing inputs to output for the no latency thing has removed a lot of issues in the monitoring.

I do plan to add another set of converters of higher quality into the 3rd adat i/o at some point but I don't feel panicked about getting it done. It's just my project studio and I am purposely trying to keep my input track counts to something that is easy to manage. I consider my sounds here with my guitars and amps to be A+ (drummer & drums A+ also) so I know that to be most important. My nexus is ergonomic and mixerless with controllers instead and automating so I get to interactively play and record without thinking about it. Which has been achieved also. It sure took a long time but it was ultimately finite and not infinite. I have form and function under control. Now it's just parts that can be changed and upgraded.

Sorry if I diverted but just felt like commenting. I don't post often but I lurk here and at ProSound daily. Hugely informative. Priceless really.

[Axiz7]

Just checking for any updates, on any of the new Fireface owners.

Yeah or Ney?

...Income tax is due back soon.

thanks for any feedback!