Fireface 800 problem[urgent]
Old 19th February 2010
  #1
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Fireface 800 problem[urgent]

Hey guys,this is my first post here cause i'm having a major problem..my fireface 800 worked very well until 2 days ago..i installed a new operating system and when i tryed to connected it didn't work..the pc didn't recognize the firewire and the fireface,so i bought a new firewire,now the pc doesn't recognize the fireface,it has a RED LED on the "Host" On and when i try to open the "mixer" and the fireface icon on my pc it doesn't open..
Anybody can help me with that?please it's really URGENT
Thank u very much
Old 19th February 2010
  #2
Gear Head
 
Mevlan Osmani's Avatar
 

I'm sure your firewire 400 port has gone (damaged)
You have to try with firewire 800 port. I'm sure will work.
This is most known problem with RME FF800 !
Old 19th February 2010
  #3
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Thread Starter
Sorry for being a newbie but how can i do that?
i'm using the cable on the FF 800 Port that white cable with 2 firewire connections..
Old 19th February 2010
  #4
Gear maniac
 

Are you using the FW400 port or one of the FW800 ports? The 800s are square-shaped, and the 400s look kind of like a modified USB port.

I had that happen to the 400 port on my Fireface. Wound up having to get it exchanged for another unit under warranty.
Old 19th February 2010
  #5
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AlexK's Avatar
 

Have you 'hot-plugged' at any point, ie, unplugging, or plugging in the interface with the computer powered up?
Old 19th February 2010
  #6
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Thread Starter
so i have to buy another cable for the FW800 Port?the pc doesn't recognize the fireface when i plug in the cable on the firewire,so yeah maybe it could be from the cable..i guess
Old 19th February 2010
  #7
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Bubbakron's Avatar
 

Did you install the new drivers? It obviously has to do with the new OPerating system!!
Old 19th February 2010
  #8
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Thread Starter
The thing it's that when i connect the fireface to my pc,the pc doesn't recognize the hardware..it's like i didn't connect nothing to the pc..and the drivers i open them and it's like it's nothing there too...
Old 19th February 2010
  #9
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Again,
When you Installed your new OS:
Did you also install the latest FF800 drivers (from their website)?
Follow the driver installation procedure that's given there, and it should work.
Old 19th February 2010
  #10
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RME Support's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJo View Post
The thing it's that when i connect the fireface to my pc,the pc doesn't recognize the hardware..it's like i didn't connect nothing to the pc..and the drivers i open them and it's like it's nothing there too...
What do you mean with "opening" drivers?
Which drivers did you install? What kind of system is this, Mac or PC? Can you test the FF with another computer?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Old 19th February 2010
  #11
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Thread Starter
So..when i open the drivers it appears an icon that says RME on the right next to the clock..i open and it doesn't appear nothing..not even the mixer..and yeah i've tried on another computer and it doesn't work :( and it's a PC..about the drivers i think that the one's i've installed are the correct ones..can somebody teel me what's the drivers to use?
Old 19th February 2010
  #12
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RME Support's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJo View Post
So..when i open the drivers it appears an icon that says RME on the right next to the clock..i open and it doesn't appear nothing..not even the mixer..and yeah i've tried on another computer and it doesn't work :( and it's a PC..about the drivers i think that the one's i've installed are the correct ones..can somebody teel me what's the drivers to use?
I don't understand what you mean when you say you "open" the driver. What's the exact name of the driver you have downloaded and what exactly are you trying to "open"?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Old 20th February 2010
  #13
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Thread Starter
When i click on the driver icon it was supposed to Open the settings or something...and the Mixer of the driver doesn't open either..

the drivers are the last updated drivers..
Old 20th February 2010
  #14
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AlexK's Avatar
 

FWIW, the Mixer Settings and TotalMix software (what you're trying to open) are different from the drivers.

The drivers are hidden away in the heart of the OS (DLLs and whatnot).

The Mixer Settings and TotalMix won't open if your computer can't find the Fireface. It does sound to me as though a Firewire bus has packed up either on the computer or the interface, or the cable is faulty (unlikely as you've tried two, but still possible).

Certainly try and use the Fireface with another computer, and see if your PC can talk to any other firewire devices (hard drives etc...).
Old 20th February 2010
  #15
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songman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RME Support View Post
I don't understand what you mean when you say you "open" the driver. What's the exact name of the driver you have downloaded and what exactly are you trying to "open"?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
There's this old guy walks into a camera shop and says: "I'd like to buy a kodak". Two guys behind the counter, both understand what he means. One will say: " You'd like to buy a camera I guess, well we have sony, nikon, canon, ..." The other one will say: "I don't understand what you mean by wanting a kodak. What is it exactly that you want?"

Oh boy, RME support
Old 20th February 2010
  #16
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
FWIW, the Mixer Settings and TotalMix software (what you're trying to open) are different from the drivers.

The drivers are hidden away in the heart of the OS (DLLs and whatnot).

The Mixer Settings and TotalMix won't open if your computer can't find the Fireface. It does sound to me as though a Firewire bus has packed up either on the computer or the interface, or the cable is faulty (unlikely as you've tried two, but still possible).

Certainly try and use the Fireface with another computer, and see if your PC can talk to any other firewire devices (hard drives etc...).

i've tried another computer and it doesn't work anyway :( i've only tried the fw400 cable..i really can't find a fw800 cable...really don't know what to do
Old 20th February 2010
  #17
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valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by songman View Post
There's this old guy walks into a camera shop and says: "I'd like to buy a kodak". Two guys behind the counter, both understand what he means. One will say: " You'd like to buy a camera I guess, well we have sony, nikon, canon, ..." The other one will say: "I don't understand what you mean by wanting a kodak. What is it exactly that you want?"

Oh boy, RME support
The thing is the wording the fellow is using makes it sound like he's trying to run the drivers to install, but most RME drivers don't work via a setup.exe so "opening" them directly would do nothing. However it sounds like he's installed them (somehow?) and is instead trying to open the driver Control Panel which allows you to adjust latency settings and so on...which is I'm sure what the tech support agent was looking for. Also I'm wondering if you understood that too but just felt the need to troll....
Old 20th February 2010
  #18
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valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJo View Post
i've tried another computer and it doesn't work anyway :( i've only tried the fw400 cable..i really can't find a fw800 cable...really don't know what to do
Many chipsets that provide bus power don't do so properly, so people are suggesting that it's possible you burned out your 400 port and should try the 800 to make sure that the device still works. However you're not providing enough technical info for people to really help you effectively (hence the RME tech's responses.)

Does your computer have a firewire800 port?

Did you buy a second firewire 400 card and add it to your system (possibly eliminating the onboard firewire port from being bad)?

Are you using external power (mains) with the Fireface800 or just firewire's bus power?

etc...
Old 20th February 2010
  #19
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songman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
The thing is the wording the fellow is using makes it sound like he's trying to run the drivers to install, but most RME drivers don't work via a setup.exe so "opening" them directly would do nothing. However it sounds like he's installed them (somehow?) and is instead trying to open the driver Control Panel which allows you to adjust latency settings and so on...which is I'm sure what the tech support agent was looking for. Also I'm wondering if you understood that too but just felt the need to troll....
No absolutely not. BigJo clearly has a problem with English and he expresses himself awkwardly. He did say at one point: "... when i open the drivers it appears an icon that says RME on the right next to the clock ...". Now if the RME support person knows his job, from that description he should know what BigJo is talking about (how many files open, and have RME next to a clock?) and rather than getting back with the "I don't understand what you are saying attitude" already offer some help. And to keep saying "I don't understand what you mean by open the driver" is really ridiculous: it is software he is talking about, so I guess he just clicks or double-clicks on it or does whatever it is you have to do on a PC to "open" a software program. And if the driver is not a software program that you can open then why didn't the RME person immediately say that. He could have said several helpful things instead of or on top of his two messages.
Old 20th February 2010
  #20
Gear nut
 

Check if you have a yellow exclamation point next to a unknown device in Device Manager while FF800 is connected? If you have, right click and remove that device in Device Manager. Uninstall the driver (if already installed) and then reboot with the FF800 connected. Windows should now ask for a driver after reboot if the FF800 is working properly. Browse for the driver files, and do NOT let windows automatically search for it. What firmware is in your FF800? Make sure you use the right driver downloaded from RME ... If this does not help, your cable is not good or your FF800 is turned bad.
Old 20th February 2010
  #21
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Thread Starter
yeah i'm sorry,i'm portuguese ,so my way to express myself it's kinda awkaward :$

and yeah songman u're right..i double click on the icon of RME and nothing happens,i didn't have that problem the first time i installed the fireface..

Valis yeah i bought a new firewire card with FW400 Port

the big problem here it's that HOST sign that it's red all the time and the pc doesn't recognize the fireface..i really don't understand what happened..if the pc doesn't recognize i can't install the drivers..
Old 20th February 2010
  #22
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noooway View Post
Check if you have a yellow exclamation point next to a unknown device in Device Manager while FF800 is connected? If you have, right click and remove that device in Device Manager. Uninstall the driver (if already installed) and then reboot with the FF800 connected. Windows should now ask for a driver after reboot if the FF800 is working properly. Browse for the driver files, and do NOT let windows automatically search for it. What firmware is in your FF800? Make sure you use the right driver downloaded from RME ... If this does not help, your cable is not good or your FF800 is turned bad.
No man,it doesn't appear any yellow exclamation point..:S i really don't know what are the latest drivers that RME launched
Old 20th February 2010
  #23
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MonoBrow's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJo View Post
yeah i'm sorry,i'm portuguese ,so my way to express myself it's kinda awkaward :$

and yeah songman u're right..i double click on the icon of RME and nothing happens,i didn't have that problem the first time i installed the fireface..

Valis yeah i bought a new firewire card with FW400 Port

the big problem here it's that HOST sign that it's red all the time and the pc doesn't recognize the fireface..i really don't understand what happened..if the pc doesn't recognize i can't install the drivers..
Have you pulled or plugged the firewire cable when the pc was on?
It sounds as if the firewireport on the ff800 is defect.I have seen this before.
Edit..double check the windows firewire drivers first tho.
Old 20th February 2010
  #24
Gear nut
 

Are you using MS Windows 7? If you do not have latest firmware in your FF800 you have to change the firewire card driver in windows to Legacy driver. Read about it on RME website.
Old 20th February 2010
  #25
Tui
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by songman View Post

Oh boy, RME support
I wouldn't want his job. Imagine trying to help people that are technologically illiterate.
Old 20th February 2010
  #26
Gear maniac
 
RME Support's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJo View Post
yeah i'm sorry,i'm portuguese ,so my way to express myself it's kinda awkaward :$
Not a problem - I just thought I'd ask what exactly you meant to be sure...

Quote:
and yeah songman u're right..i double click on the icon of RME and nothing happens,i didn't have that problem the first time i installed the fireface..
If you said you installed a new operating system, and the Fireface isn't recognized, then the icon can't really be in the taskbar (lower right), because you did not install a driver on the new system yet. So are you clicking the icon just from the unzipped driver folder? That will not install a driver nor will it do anything else.
Latest drivers are here: RME: Downloads
Also see RME User Forum / RME Driver Installation - Graphical Howto for Windows and RME User Forum / Installation of RME Audio Interfaces under Windows 7 (english/german)

Quote:
the big problem here it's that HOST sign that it's red all the time and the pc doesn't recognize the fireface..i really don't understand what happened..if the pc doesn't recognize i can't install the drivers..
That's correct. Was the FF connected and on when you installed the OS? Then you might see an unknown device in the device manager. (see Noorway's post for more on that). If it does not get recognized on another computer, it may be damaged indeed. Hotplugging Firewire can be dangerous: RME User Forum / Firewire - handle with care...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Old 20th February 2010
  #27
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RME Support's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by songman View Post
There's this old guy walks into a camera shop and says: "I'd like to buy a kodak". Two guys behind the counter, both understand what he means. One will say: " You'd like to buy a camera I guess, well we have sony, nikon, canon, ..." The other one will say: "I don't understand what you mean by wanting a kodak. What is it exactly that you want?"
Number two does it absolutely right...
You know, considering that the customer is old, he could be looking for a roll of film, not a camera... As you may or may not realize, Kodak is the largest supplier of photographic films in the world...
Salesman number one apparently does not know that basic fact and gets fired by the shop owner, who happened to hear what he said.

Quote:
Oh boy, RME support
If you have a totally clear and unambiguous definition of "opening the driver" in any context, do let me know. I'm afraid that to the best of my frightfully limited knowledge, there isn't one.
Even "clicking on the software icon" (the one for the settings dialog) is not clear - is he clicking it from the taskbar, where it only appears after driver installation, or just from an unzipped driver archive, which will do nothing, at least not install a driver.


Quote:
Originally Posted by songman View Post
No absolutely not. BigJo clearly has a problem with English and he expresses himself awkwardly.
What better reason could there be to ask for a clear definition? Nothing wrong with limited english skills, of course.

Quote:
He did say at one point: "... when i open the drivers it appears an icon that says RME on the right next to the clock ...". Now if the RME support person knows his job, from that description he should know what BigJo is talking about (how many files open, and have RME next to a clock?)
Actually, maybe I didn't read that carefully enough. It does indicate he just clicked one of the exe files from the driver folder. This may send the application to the taskbar, but will not install a driver.
As the OP correctly realizes in principle, installation requires hardware detection. Lots depends on the OS version, too, W7 installation is slightly different.
Quote:
and rather than getting back with the "I don't understand what you are saying attitude" already offer some help.
I need help to be able to help. You might want to read this: How to Report Bugs Effectively
Quote:
so I guess he just clicks or double-clicks on it or does whatever it is you have to do on a PC to "open" a software program.
He said "opning the driver", which is more or less meaningless
Quote:
He could have said several helpful things instead of or on top of his two messages.
It is IMHO not much use to speculate and offer all kind of possible solutions for problems that may not even be related to the actual issue at hand (particularly when I choose to help in my free time).

You have no idea how many support requests I get that just state "it doesn't work"...

Going back to the camera shop analogy, I choose to ask "what exactly doesn't work (i.e. behaves differently from what you'd expect)?" rather than offer possible solutions that might have nothing to do with the problem at all (in the above example, that would amount to explaining the advantages of various cameras to the gentleman who wants a roll of film...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Old 21st February 2010
  #28
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songman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RME Support View Post
Number two does it absolutely right...
Going back to the camera shop analogy, I choose to ask "what exactly doesn't work (i.e. behaves differently from what you'd expect)?" rather than offer possible solutions that might have nothing to do with the problem at all (in the above example, that would amount to explaining the advantages of various cameras to the gentleman who wants a roll of film...
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
All metaphors are shaky, I knew that very well when I wrote it. I could now come back to you and say: the old gentleman, if he new cameras from his film days, certainly would not have asked for "a" kodak but for kodak film ... and we can go on like that. What you seem to miss is that your reply proves my point over again. I sympathise with your problem of customers asking for help which is difficult to give based on the information they provide, I can certainly understand that must be frustrating sometimes. However, as far as I understand, it is your job to give support. My point is that there are two ways to do that job. I'll risk another metaphor: how many times does it not happen you go into a bank, a post-office, a hospital an administrative service or whatever and run into either of two kinds of people: those who, whatever the problem, or the clumsy way in which you explain things, or the incomplete documents you've got, immediately try to help, the other kind that becomes argumentative: things are not in order, they cannot do anything, you have to come back, etc. In spite of the many hopeless requests for support you claim to get and the time this takes you, you seem to have had ample time to become argumentative and to try and prove that you are right in your foregoing message. Your job is not about proving you are right and the customer is wrong, it is about helping out your customers (who by the way each contribute to you salary by buying your products.) If you had taken the time and space which you took to write your first two question-messages and the foregoing one to try and answer your customer's question right away by going over the various possibilities of what he was talking about you still would have spent less time than you did now.
Old 21st February 2010
  #29
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RME Support's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by songman View Post
In spite of the many hopeless requests for support you claim to get and the time this takes you, you seem to have had ample time to become argumentative and to try and prove that you are right in your foregoing message. Your job is not about proving you are right and the customer is wrong,
I wasn't arguing with the customer. I was discussing the views you had expressed on how to do support, on which I beg to differ.

Quote:
If you had taken the time and space which you took to write your first two question-messages and the foregoing one to try and answer your customer's question right away by going over the various possibilities of what he was talking about you still would have spent less time than you did now.
There was no clear "question" for which there would have been one clear answer. As you will observe, by the time I joined the thread, several other GS members had tried to offer help by, guess what, asking questions to further clarify what might have happened. There are so many variables here, it is perfectly pointless and IMHO a waste of time to write a long list of possible solutions. Asking questions is part of the support process, if the information initially provided by the customer is insufficient, and it usually leads to success quickly. The time I would otherwise spend speculating and offering more or less random "solutions" is time I can't spend helping other customers (or enjoying my weekend, for that matter...).

Next time your car has a problem, try to just drop the keys at the garage saying "I tried to drive, and it didn't work", and leave. I'm sure you'll be asked questions. If you manage to escape without answering them, you will probably get charged for the time it takes to find out what is actually the problem. Same if you send a piece of hardware for repair without details, just a letter saying "it doesn't work"... And how about a doctor..? "I'm sick, do something..." To the best of my knowledge, good doctors ask a lot of questions before actually reaching for a specific bottle of medicine. Not doing so could in fact endanger the patient's life or health more than it might help.

Reporting bugs effectively
is not a matter of language, BTW and IMHO.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Old 21st February 2010
  #30
Gear Head
 
Mevlan Osmani's Avatar
 

here we go , and listen me

you shoul buy a new Fireware 800 PCIe card which looks like this in photo
Fireface 800 problem[urgent]-base_media.jpg

and second , you should buy a Fireware 800 Cable which looks like this
Fireface 800 problem[urgent]-base_media2.jpg

or third , take your warranty and go where have you bought your FF800 . And say there , take this damaged FF800 and give me new one
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