27" iMac i7 Quad-Core VS. Mac Pro

[chrisdee]

If it has to be a mac I would go for an IMAC. The MacPro is much more expensive and I don't think it's that much faster.

[Person99]

Originally Posted by BassSaxMan

You can get the EXACT same panel used in the iMac 27" from Dell. It's called the u2711. It's 1099 at the moment, but it should drop to the 800 range in short order I imagine. Shipping in February.

Remember, it's not an Apple monitor, it's simply an LG panel that others will use. HP will have a model soon as well.

I realize that but it does not make the solution more cost effective.

Here is the bottom line:
27" iMac 4gb 1tb i7: $2200
Mac Pro 3gb 1tb 2.66 Xeon + Dell Monitor: $3700

It is silly to basically say (as some posters have said) that expandability is always better--spend the extra $1500 for an equivalent machine because you can expand it!

Do you need to expand it? If no, that that was money wasted.

You know, I can sell you solid gold pipes with a diameter of 12" for your house telling it it can flow a gazillion gallons per minute and it will never rust. All true, but you would be stupid to buy it because you don't need it!

[jonutarr]

Originally Posted by everythinglouder

My 24-inch iMac lasted a little over a year. It was hardly acceptable for what was supposed to be a relatively high-performance machine. After a year it started having overheating problems and would, when even a tad bit hot (even during the winter), respond as though it was an 866 MHz G3.

The new aluminium design disperses heat better, the outside feels hotter than plastic but the machine is cooler inside,

my G3 and G4 apple laptops didn't live the longest, That has taught me to always get apple care

[roderick]

good news.

[JH4music]

Originally Posted by drBill

For what it's worth, I've probably had well over 25 macs over the years. I'm a hard core mac lover.

But.....

EVERY SINGLE Imac I've owned has gone south. At least once. Some more often. They are not built for the heavy lifting that a DAW puts them through.

Every tower has been stone solid.

I'd never trust an iMac for DAW type work.

Just my $.02.

The 24" 2.16GHz I had was 100% reliable, and constantly being pushed close to 100% CPU with heavy VI use in Logic. I never had a single problem with it. The only reason I sold it was because I could not resist the upgrade to the 27" i7 imac. (Which was WELL WORTH it).

That being said, not all imacs are created equally. The entry level ones do not have a dedicated graphics card, which means the CPU handles all of the graphics. This means these CPU's run hotter than normal since they have to also handle graphics. Also, the imacs previous to the current generation used mostly notebook components.

The current 27" model is using primarily desktop components(CPU is an i7 860), and the graphics card and CPU are at opposite ends of the case. Add to that the case is a big giant heatsink. Looking at operating temperatures, this thing runs way cooler than most of the towers I've had.... Especially G4's.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by JH4music

The 24" 2.16GHz I had was 100% reliable, and constantly being pushed close to 100% CPU with heavy VI use in Logic.

That's cool. I'm glad you had good luck. BUt there's no way you can push as much air thru those as you can a tower. Just sayin.....

Convenience, Elegance, Compactness, etc. All good stuff. thumbsup

Reliability? I'm not sold. I've had towers last 5 years under brutal 24/7 12+ hour days. No iMac is going to approach that. How old was your 24" when you offed it?

[roderick]

Originally Posted by drBill

That's cool. I'm glad you had good luck. BUt there's no way you can push as much air thru those as you can a tower. Just sayin.....

Convenience, Elegance, Compactness, etc. All good stuff. thumbsup

Reliability? I'm not sold. I've had towers last 5 years under brutal 24/7 12+ hour days. No iMac is going to approach that. How old was your 24" when you offed it?

How can you be so sure without testing the new model of imacs?

[operaman]

Check this

DailyTech - Apple Tries a Second Time to Fix 27" iMac Issues With Firmware Update

and this

DailyTech - An Apple or a Lemon? IMacs Suffer Yellow Discoloration, Fail to Boot

For the type of money you are going to drop I would really do my research and be sure of what you are purchasing. Me personally, I would go Mac Pro.

[Carotte]

The new 6core Xeon are due for march... if you can wait a bit, I suggest this is the best possible bang for the buck as the 6-12-24 architecture will be ruling the near future (2-3 years) and Mac OS X as well as logic will be optimized for multithreading and hyperthreading for these kind of platforms...

As for the iMac VS Mac Pro question, it all comes down to the money... I wouldn't go with an iMac, even tho the i7 cores now compete very well against Harpertowns or even Nehalems... But sure thing is that it's not meant for the same job. If you intend on loading up your DAW with plug-ins all the time, don't go for an iMac... Not to mention the speed of the memory that makes a hell of a difference, as well as the expandability of a system you invest big money in.

In other words, wait for the new ore i7-980X to come out in the future Mac Pros.

Cheers.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by roderick

How can you be so sure without testing the new model of imacs?

I can't be sure to a scientific certainty. But I can go with a longstanding experience on my part. That's what I base my choice on. And that's all it is. My experience.

[roderick]

What is the difference between speed of the memory in imac vs mac pro? Thanks!

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by Person99

Here is the bottom line:
27" iMac 4gb 1tb i7: $2200
Mac Pro 3gb 1tb 2.66 Xeon + Dell Monitor: $3700

I got my i7 with stock 4GB of RAM cheaper than that with no tax and free shipping.

[pendejo]

Don't buy a Mac Pro now as they are likely to be updated very soon.

If latency is a concern for you, you need a Mac Pro. Firewire can't match PCI bus performance.

[gregwar]

+1 i would try to be patient, wait and see what comes in the spring..
if there's new mac pros then you can choose those, the current model at a discount or the model before, still an 8 core beast, for even less. my 2c.

ps, my macbook pro died in 2 years of constant punishment. thank god for applecare don't skimp on this especially if you're considering an imac

[JH4music]

Originally Posted by roderick

What is the difference between speed of the memory in imac vs mac pro? Thanks!

Nothing really. There is a minor architecture difference - the mac pro is capable of triple channel and the imac uses dual channel... but this is really a moot point because both have 4 RAM slots, and if you put 4 sticks of RAM in the mac pro, it will behave in dual channel mode. From my personal experience, and from what I have read you will not notice a difference between dual and triple channel. Quantity of RAM always wins over speed.

The only other difference is the mac pro uses registered ECC server memory, and the imac uses non ECC notebook memory. Server memory is cheaper right now mainly because that's the only market that has been using large quantities of memory for the last few years. The memory for the imac is currently more expensive, but the price is coming down quickly. I've seen 16GB for the imac go for as low as $700 on ebay... 2 months ago the lowest you could find it was $1000.

[JH4music]

Originally Posted by drBill

That's cool. I'm glad you had good luck. BUt there's no way you can push as much air thru those as you can a tower. Just sayin.....

Convenience, Elegance, Compactness, etc. All good stuff. thumbsup

Reliability? I'm not sold. I've had towers last 5 years under brutal 24/7 12+ hour days. No iMac is going to approach that. How old was your 24" when you offed it?

About 3 years old.

[Person99]

Originally Posted by Dysanfel

I got my i7 with stock 4GB of RAM cheaper than that with no tax and free shipping.

I did too, but I was just quoted the store prices.

[mikegsax]

all of these post remind me of the voices in my head....tuff decisions.... for me its tax season ...and unfortunately because i have a wife who controls the budget and 3 kids 2 cars and a mortgage i only have a budget of 3500 bucks to spend on my new computer.... I have definitely reached the limit with my ppc dual 2.0 gig with 8 gigs of ram ...four of them being insignificant of course(which i think there should be class action suit for making us believe that 8 gigs was gonna make a big difference)
anyway it seems like the last thing i should buy right now is a new mac ....I don't think technology has leveled off yet. anyone who buys a mac pro is gonna have problems sleeping at night it's just too expensive. On the other hand the i7 core imacs appear to be a quick fix...which will lead to a later disappointment. the i7's will find their way into the mac pro's and when they do they won't be alone..I think imma hold out for a dual i7 core processor ..

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by mikegsax

I think imma hold out for a dual i7 core processor ..

It took Apple 3 years to put a single quad core CPU into an iMac, and they had to increase the screen fro 24" to 27" to get it to fit. You'll see a 6 core 27" before you ever see a dual i7.

[stoneagejim]

imac....

new model out in march hold tight!

jim

[Latinlover]

Originally Posted by Khaos Phreak

Should i go with a new quad core imac with 16gb ram and 2tb harddrive?

or a 8-core mac pro with 16gm ram and 2 tb harddrive?


any other suggestions are appreciated, the only mac ive had was the g4 tower lol ive always used pc's due to prie i think macs are better.

8 core mac all the way.

[ddash]

I have a mac pro and love it. At the time I think the Imac was $1500 and seemed to be much less powerful or expandable. I bought my mac pro 3 years ago for $2100.I added 4 more gigs of memory and it has been fine wit time so far. I hope they fix the many bugs in snow leopard so I can go 64 bit and increase the memory.

It does seem that the Imacs are much better now tho. The screen is beautiful,but I would still buy a mac pro. I just dont trust Imacs for some reason.

They update so much faster now which I hate.

[Doctor Ox]

Originally Posted by JH4music

Track count has nothing to do with the amount of installed RAM, it's about the speed and/or fragmentation of the disk you are recording to. Getting a faster disk or adding more disks to spread your tracks across is what will increase your track count.

On the imac you only have the FW800 bus to add drives to, unless you are willing to take it apart and replace the optical drive with a second hard drive like I did.

I just purchased an iMac i7 and am considering doing this as well. Does swapping out the superdrive for a 2nd hard drive void the warranty/applecare though?

[nezperce]

I am thinking of buying an iMac 27th and an RME 8ch ad/da.
Can you recommend a soundcard?

[nezperce]

Hey, you mentioned no vat and free shipping, sounds like a good eal, can i ask where and how reg the vat and free shipping?

[randallp]

Is there much difference between USB2 and FW 400 (when using external HHDs?)

[TNM]

Originally Posted by randallp

Is there much difference between USB2 and FW 400 (when using external HHDs?)

the fw drive is literally almost 2x faster in real world...

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by randallp

Is there much difference between USB2 and FW 400 (when using external HHDs?)

Yep. Like others have said, FW is 2x-3x as fast as USB2 harddrives due to bus design.


Also remember, USB2 is one UNI-DIRECTIONAL. Which means the USB bus can only transfer data in 1 direction. While Firewire/Esata can xfer data in both directions simultaneously.

USB3.0 is supposed to correct this, however this is yet to be seen/utilized.

Personally, after experiencing Firewire in a recording environment vs USB, I'd never use USB2.0 to record to unless it was a single track.

[Raygun]

Originally Posted by drBill

Reliability? I'm not sold. I've had towers last 5 years under brutal 24/7 12+ hour days. No iMac is going to approach that. How old was your 24" when you offed it?

I'm not gonna say you're wrong but I've run my iMac about four years now without a problem. I'm finally upgrading to an i7 next month but this machine still works very well. And the abuse it's been forced to take is just horrible.

[zephonic]

I have been contemplating the same thing, but I'd wait until the next-gen MacPros arrive. From what I hear the iMac i7 smokes the current MacPro and I'm sure Apple will update the latter soon.

3 years ago, I switched from a G5 to an iMac and although it has generally been okay for the job, I now feel hampered by the lack of expandability. The new iMac has only one firewire port, and that is a can't-do for me.

Last but not least, large sample libraries noticeably affect performance when installed on the system drive, something to consider if that is on your horizon.

edit:
USB may be an alternative for storage and archiving, but it was not designed for real-time data transfer, as is common in AV production. To be fair, I run into performance problems with FW-drives as well, the 7200rpm maxim doesn't tell all in this regard. If you get external drives, check whether they are recommended for AV use beforehand.