Why Sequoia is a better DAW than most

[Lemonsqueezer]

Originally Posted by rydan

Yes, and they have reasons to do so.

Anyway, being a power user myself (masters degree in computer science) I have found that most really competent computer users hate windows as well. Competent users like unix/linux. Oh, and osx, since osx is unix...

Well I have all 3 running here and I can confidently say that XP is my 1st choice for music production. So you tell me, am I a really competent user or not?

[ManOnAMission]

Originally Posted by jrwaltb

Please check out some of the articles here:

Audio FAQ

Look, this is not about "Which sounds better" or is it about Samplitude. All its about is acknowledging that the way a Daw is coded can create different results in the way a Daw sounds. It's hard to have discussions when people don't believe this.

As a software engineer, it is obvious to me. I am trying to think of a way to explain it to non engineers. Hmm... Its realy not worth the time.. neither is performing null tests. Have fun everyone!

[ManOnAMission]

Originally Posted by rydan

Yes, and they have reasons to do so.

Anyway, being a power user myself (masters degree in computer science) I have found that most really competent computer users hate windows as well. Competent users like unix/linux. Oh, and osx, since osx is unix...

Bullshit. Ive been developing Solaris and Linux for close to 15 years and while I appreciate them as a development environment and for industrial apps, I would never use them as a target for commercial software apps.

For consumer software, PC is still #1 choice. Not saying I like Windows, but its a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. Compatibility with the most software and peripherals is the name of the game. Not wasting time having to search for device drivers or debug compatibility issues is my #1 priority. I could geek out and say why linux or osx is "better", but for a commercial desktop where the goal is compatibility, they just arent.

[rackdude]

Originally Posted by rydan

Yes, and they have reasons to do so.

Anyway, being a power user myself (masters degree in computer science) I have found that most really competent computer users hate windows as well. Competent users like unix/linux. Oh, and osx, since osx is unix...

I've found from my Comp Sci classes that nobody likes working with Gnome because it's sooooo buggy... haven't used the other builds of "linux" and haven't seen anyone use any other builds in a long time either (I knew a Ubantu user about a year ago).

The only thing I've heard programmers like in OSX over Windows is that one font, forget the name of it but it is a pretty programming font.


Let me put it simply:

Most competent users don't give a what OS they use. Many times that ends up being a Linux or Windows just because they like to hand pick their hardware and build it.

[RasCricket]

Originally Posted by Roland

Samplitude and Sequioa are indeed great products. There is plenty of well documented evidence that sound quality wise (null tests and alike) there is no difference between any of the major DAW manufacturers out there outside of differing convertors. If you get into tasks such as sample rate conversion, Adobe Audition's internal offering is as good as the best stand alone products, this is a link to a series of tests that allow you to compare various well known DAW software in this respect. SRC Comparisons

Regards


Roland

Thanks putting this up. It certainly does answer and resolve some issues with DAW's that are out there.

Funny thing, though. I had said earlier something to the tune of "Ya know, whenever I mention Audition, I get replies mentioning Versions 1 or 2."
Indeed, I had to when that table only shows results for Audition 2.0, haha.

And it said it was updated in December '09. V3.0 cant get no love :(

[rackdude]

Originally Posted by RasCricket

And it said it was updated in December '09. V3.0 cant get no love :(

Nope, but soundbooth can . Adobe fail.

[siriusbliss]

Originally Posted by ManOnAMission

Samplitude is a real bargain too. Price for Samp Pro is $1000 and you can usually get crossgrades for about half that.

Unless you are really entrenched in your current sequencer, it is worth checking out.

I love the ergonimics of the transport and the markers. It feels almost like a piece of hardware.


I think the reason it is not "big" in America is that it is primarily German audience, and it is a flagship product. They have a scaled down "Music Maker" software for $100 that is a great entry for most home recordists.

I have almost the full suite from Pro V11.03, Music Studio 14 and Music Maker, and I'll say that even MM is one of those 'unsung heroes' of the sub-$100 programs out there. Does a lot of things for cheap, and can be used in more professional configuration vs. just a hobbyist type setup.

The other issue why Magix isn't as well known in the US is because of it's almost total lack of marketing in the North American market.

But Sequoia and Samplitude really are very good programs.

Greg

[OMNIFEX]

Originally Posted by siriusbliss

The other issue why Magix isn't as well known in the US is because of it's almost total lack of marketing in the North American market.

But Sequoia and Samplitude really are very good programs.

Greg

This is very true. I can’t say there are a large number of Samplitude users in the States. However, the few that do use it have a far greater understanding on what the program brings to the table.

I read someone mentioned vsts were not available on Samplitude 3 years ago. They might want to read this review on Sound on Sound written 7 years ago.

Magix Samplitude 7


Samplitude/Sequoia was never aimed for the inexperienced. It was designed for those who have a greater understanding of audio and would like to increase their learning skills.

If one is content with Adobe Audition by all means keep on using it. I for one never found Adobe Audition offered enough for my needs which is why, I use Samplitude.

Cheers!

[bengl3rt]

Originally Posted by ManOnAMission

As a software engineer, it is obvious to me. I am trying to think of a way to explain it to non engineers. Hmm... Its realy not worth the time.. neither is performing null tests. Have fun everyone!

Amen, brother. I could write paragraphs and paragraphs about frameworks, APIs, driver and userspace model in each OS, and maybe I would have... but your post saved me the 20 minutes. Thanks.

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by djanthonyw

Does it sound anallog?

only if you are using analog speakers

[LQM]

I've done null tests with Samplitude, Sonar, Reaper, Cubase, Logic and Ableton Live and all of them nulled with the same audio files at the same gain settings and pan law. This did not use any plugins, which is different matter. Most of us use 3rd party plugins anyway.

People who think differently are not setting something up correctly and are still caught up in ancient mythology and CORRECTIONAL BIAS/PLACEBO. Different setup, converters, audio hardware and PLUGINS are what lead people to believe one is better than the other. Samp/Seq has nice plugins but no other DAW users have such a skewed and insistence that their DAW sounds 'better' than others, except SAW Studio users. FAIL.

For example, Samplitude/Sequoia did once have an advantage when it was the first to have 32 bit float audio engine - this was about 8-9 years ago and every manufacturer has upgraded their products to match this and some offer 64 bit float. So the modern reality is that the advantage is no longer so.

[Dove]

Originally Posted by LQM

I've done null tests with Samplitude, Sonar, Reaper, Cubase, Logic and Ableton Live and all of them nulled with the same audio files at the same gain settings and pan law. This did not use any plugins, which is different matter. Most of us use 3rd party plugins anyway.

People who think differently are not setting something up correctly and are still caught up in ancient mythology and CORRECTIONAL BIAS/PLACEBO. Different setup, converters, audio hardware and PLUGINS are what lead people to believe one is better than the other. Samp/Seq has nice plugins but no other DAW users have such a skewed and insistence that their DAW sounds 'better' than others, except SAW Studio users. FAIL.

For example, Samplitude/Sequoia did once have an advantage when it was the first to have 32 bit float audio engine - this was about 8-9 years ago and every manufacturer has upgraded their products to match this and some offer 64 bit float. So the modern reality is that the advantage is no longer so.

In other words use whatever DAW you prefer based on ergonomics and functional features.

For me Reaper.

[Tube World]

Sequoia has the best audio editing out there. Plus with the object editing capabilities, it is just outstanding. Not to mention CD burning, red book, etc. If people like Bob Katz use it, and he can use anything he wants, you know it's gotta be great

[LQM]

Sequoia OUGHT to be the bees knees and the dog's golden nuts for the price.

It should be able to blow away the likes of Logic and Cubase on features for that money, but apart from the audio editing (Logic also has Waveburner for red book audio and a competent editor in Soundtrack Pro, Cubase has pretty good audio editing in the box too), I don't see too much worthy of dropping an extra 2 and half K to get Sequoia - you could also get Cubase and Wavelab and have 2K spare change.

However, I have heard classical engineers say it's worth the money for the editing and the renovator type plugin, so what do I know ?

[Roland]

I think that Sequioa is very possibly the best DAW out there, it does, however, have one major flaw in so much that it is cluttered and lacks an elegant look as an interface. Too many tools on display at the wrong time, big knobs and meters, when smaller ones would do, too much information and options being displayed. The mixer is a classic example of poor, "clunky" display, both Logic and pro tools offer a similar much cleaner look and both are loved for their interface.

I think it might seem unfair of me to make these points, but I don't think Sequioa and Samplitude are the only culprits, take a look at Nuendo and Cubase, IMHO there are also many others. The power of modern DAW's isn't too much the issue, it's now about making them more elegant to use.


Regards


Roland

[andsonic]

Originally Posted by Roland

I think that Sequioa is very possibly the best DAW out there, it does, however, have one major flaw in so much that it is cluttered and lacks an elegant look as an interface. Too many tools on display at the wrong time, big knobs and meters, when smaller ones would do, too much information and options being displayed. The mixer is a classic example of poor, "clunky" display, both Logic and pro tools offer a similar much cleaner look and both are loved for their interface.

I think it might seem unfair of me to make these points, but I don't think Sequioa and Samplitude are the only culprits, take a look at Nuendo and Cubase, IMHO there are also many others. The power of modern DAW's isn't too much the issue, it's now about making them more elegant to use.


Regards


Roland

When in "power user" mode Sequioa shows a lot of stuff. You should see the new skins in v11. It's definitely the best laid out mixer yet. The great thing about Sequioatude is that you can pretty much turn on/off the features that you need. thumbsup
That's one of the things that sold me on the program over 10 years ago.

[siriusbliss]

Objects alone are worth using Samplitude/Sequoia IMO.

The fast track AND object freeze function (including being able to freeze otherwise empty aux effect channels) is great for rendering stems for use in other programs (not always just to save CPU overhead).

Greg

[jrwaltb]

Originally Posted by LQM

Sequoia OUGHT to be the bees knees and the dog's golden nuts for the price.

It should be able to blow away the likes of Logic and Cubase on features for that money, but apart from the audio editing (Logic also has Waveburner for red book audio and a competent editor in Soundtrack Pro, Cubase has pretty good audio editing in the box too), I don't see too much worthy of dropping an extra 2 and half K to get Sequoia - you could also get Cubase and Wavelab and have 2K spare change.

However, I have heard classical engineers say it's worth the money for the editing and the renovator type plugin, so what do I know ?

Samplitude does about the same (minus some stuff for video and 3point edit) for about $300-$1000 depending on the version.

[Barbary Ape]

Let me just say first that I believe in null tests, I have done null tests on Samplitude, DP5 and Logic and they all do null there is no other way around it and yet whenever I listen to the mix done in Samplitude there is a certain airyness about it that is not present in the others despite it nulling with them.

And it seems I'm not the only one who felt this airyness and I do apologize to Mr. Katz in advance if I have taken this quote out of context but to my understanding he seems to be experiencing the same.

Originally Posted by bob katz

You're welcome. I keep on finding as many mysteries as answers in this. When I receive an excellent in-the-box mix from a client using the most popular DAW (we have and use this DAW in our mixing system in Studio B as well)---as well as stems from the same client, I bring them into my Sequoia system. I carefully check gains and matching and the stems produce the identical levels to the ear as the full mix. Yet inevitably I (and visitors and other engineers) observe that simply summing in Sequoia from the stems produces a wider, deeper sound image.

Is this a scientific comparison? Absolutely not. It's an anecdotal observation. Is it possible that the client forgot to implement the dithered mixer in that DAW (it's a common mistake, the stereo dithered mixer can be found as an optional plugin that has to be moved into the main folder). Or is it something else?

This is not to hate on other DAWs I'm just throwing this out there for those who think null tests are the be all and end all of DAW summing. There are still things that we can't explain or rather information that companies are refusing to disclose.

I don't use Samplitude anymore I'm strictly using Logic, I use what's comfortable to my work flow, it may or may not sound the best but it works for me.

[CZ101]

who was behind the controls, when, and where are basically everything in life, except for how much, but we know that doesn't matter

how is always relative

[LQM]

Samplitude Pro is comparable to Logic and Cubase for sure. At a more affordable price point, although Logic is half the money (the mac is the dongle). You could buy Cubase and Wavelab or Cubase and Soundforge too for about the same money as Samplitude Pro, so a lot comes down to personal preferences. All of these give you a great product for the money.

I read about Sequoia's take editing in Sound On Sound when the reviewer who reviewed Samplitude 9 Pro was an engineer who used Pyramix and Sequoia typically and he was surprised at how much he could do edit wise with Samplitude but reverted to Sequoia for some tasks 'under pressure of deadlines and budget'.

You have to admit - 3k is a heck of a lot to drop on a Native DAW. Nuendo has improved it's price to around $1800 (and $400 extra for the Cubase Midi toolkit, which is a slap in the face really). So it better had be good !

[sam c]

I have Sam 10...I for the life of me do not find the sound better than the other two DAW's I use???? Better UI though!

[TimDolbear]

Ok.. Sam Pro has 96% of Sequoia in it, and for most users, it does all you need from start to master. I have been using Sam for 6 years, 8+ hours a day and still I am just blown away. I fully believe it sounds cleaner, less blur and more detailed compared to Logic and PT which we have here too.

The GUI is the best for mixing. The log throw faders are awesome to work on, and there are many skins to choose from as well as you can customize the colors and all...see links
http://skins.birdline.gr/screenshots...er_1920_v3.gif or http://www.eclecticarecordings.com/p...ens/mixer1.JPG


If you have not messed with Samplitude/Sequoia's object editing, its a whole new world, I suggest downloading the demo of Samplitude V11 and try'n it.

[submarin]

my Partner and me, working bout 15 years as producers were tired of Logic and Mac, things not working etc..
switched to Cubase PC, got better and then founf Sonar, which I really love.
My partner was not sooo happy and wanted to go Samplitude and bought a crossgrade for € 500.
the biggest problem IMO is that if you work with a lot of vsti´s, Samplitude is not the right choice, we both have core i7´s, and when I run a project in Sonar say 15 vsti´s and 40 tracks with plug ins all over I can work at 3 ms latency or easily with 6 ms,
in Sam, no chance. only crackling and problems, especially with UAD 2..

now we´re sellig it again, very frustrating, we will stay with Sonar, it really rocks on 8 cores..

just my experience..

[dikkiedik]

Originally Posted by Roland

I think that Sequioa is very possibly the best DAW out there, it does, however, have one major flaw in so much that it is cluttered and lacks an elegant look as an interface. Too many tools on display at the wrong time, big knobs and meters, when smaller ones would do, too much information and options being displayed. The mixer is a classic example of poor, "clunky" display, both Logic and pro tools offer a similar much cleaner look and both are loved for their interface.

Regards


Roland

i have to disagree with that.
we all know that if you want to get some reall stuff done you have to take time to learn your tools. shure, it´s easier to get some tracks rolling in the easier DAW interfaces that are flying around, but if ur willing to spent some energy on a program like Samplitude you´re going to be surprised on a day by day basis on what a wealth of possibilities this program offers.

i just finished piecing together my own Samp11 interface, including different graphics for the mixer and channels, shortcuts for everything, custom toolbars and damn! this is smoking hot!

i personally don´t want a kindergarten interface, but THE POSSIBILITY to edit, tweak and get the piece of software as personal en easy FOR ME that it can be.

and because we´re all different i love the fact that i can do this, my colleagues can, hell even my little sister can.
and if you work on some-ones elses´ station you just import all your settings, prefs and schemes easy with the click of a mouse.

love it!!

cheers,

dikkie

[audioguynyc]

im not an incompetent computer user, I'm a sound engineer.

i dont want to spend time tweaking shit and installing quiet fans. how inconvenient

dealing with dialog screens, incompatibility issues, processor errors?

tweaking a windows os is (mostly) for computer nerds who want to make music.

mac is for professionals who want to take advantage of digital convenience.

you can even look at itunes vs windows media player and see the difference.