I want to upgrade from fireface 800 to something better

[purplevibs]

Hello people this is my first post here but I've been reading the forum a long time.

My current setup is based on a Fireface 800 on to a Mac Pro using Cubase 5 and Logic Pro 9. I also have a good collection of mic pre amps (A-designs, Great river, Purple Audio, Api and Brent Averill) and some outboard gear (a pair of distressors, fatso, purple audio 77, space echo and api 2500).

I mostly use my studio for mixing projects but occasionally I also record local bands. I know feel that it is time to upgrade my convertors and get rid of the fireface. I'm currently limited by the 12ins/8outs of the fireface so something like 16 in/out would be what I'm looking for.

My budget is around $3000 but I can stretch it a little bit by selling something if needed. I've spend much time reading this forum and other sources but I'm in this point where the more I read the more I get confused so I just wanted to ask you what would be the best choice according to my current setup?

[matt thomas]

The obvious options seem to me to be

Lynx Aurora, preferably with AES 16 PCIe card (a systemwhich I have owned and is excellent)

or the SSL offering (which I have never used, but I would consider if I were buying again)

MOTU also has some relevant systems (that again I have not used)

or you could get an eight channel (of analog) firewire device like the one from Apogee, or from Metric Halo, and expand it with another set of converters. Personally I wouldn't go this way as it is not as tidy. Unless you decide you want to use pro tools, then I would get the m-audio 2626 with extra converters (maybe the aurora anyway).

matt

[purplevibs]

Matt thank you for your reply. The aurora is top on my list but does the lynx aes pcie card offers 16 ins and 16 outs simultaneously? Also do you use any monitoring device?

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by purplevibs

Matt thank you for your reply. The aurora is top on my list but does the lynx aes pcie card offers 16 ins and 16 outs simultaneously? Also do you use any monitoring device?

Yes, it offers 16 in and out simultaneously. I have used it in all sorts of ways, with an analog mixer, a digital mixer, monitoring through the onboard mixer on the Aurora, monitoring through the onboard mixer on the card, as external converters to another interface, as a Pro Tools HD interface. Its a very flexible and great sounding system.

The AES card can also take daughter cards for extra channels of digital in the future, and I think (but I am not sure) you can use the other Lynx L2 range of pci cards as extra i/o too.

The SSL on the other hand is 24 channel, and it says "SSL" on it.

matt

[matt thomas]

Actually I was just thinking, I used the PCI version not the PCIe. There was a huge thread on gearslutz a while back about the PCIe version, perhaps some people were having an issue with it? I don't know. My PCI version worked fine

matt

[purplevibs]

Thanks again matt.

I'm also looking at the SSL alpha link bundle with the madi pcie card which fits my needs and budget perfectly. But is 24 i/o with a pcie card for $3000 too good to be true?

[Trp]

I was in the very same position a year go and upgraded to a Lynx Aurora 16 with RME AES32 PCIe card. Couldn´t be happier, everything works flawlessly. I liked the Aurora better than the SSL.

RME is rock solid, highly recommended.

I use a SPL 2control as monitor controller betwenn the Aurora and my S3As.

[Audio Hombre]

why do you feel you need to upgrade? are you noticing 'flaws' in the sound?
a chap i know upgraded from a 800 to a lynx, but more for the aes throughput than the sonics.

[Steck]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

why do you feel you need to upgrade? are you noticing 'flaws' in the sound?
a chap i know upgraded from a 800 to a lynx, but more for the aes throughput than the sonics.

I'm curious too, as I was under the impression you could add additional fireface 800's (IIRC this has to be via firewire 800) to gain additional channels.

[robertshaw]

lynx does sound better

[Obitheincredible]

Also throw the Apoggee offereings in there!

[Geetarpicker]

Perhaps a used set of Apogee AD16x/DA16x? Maybe a stretch to the budget, but you never know what may turn up used.

I recently picked up a used Apogee Rosetta 800 and the combination works so well along with my FF800 that I'm probably going to keep both. The FF800 has awesome monitor mix capabilities, and I can use both converters together for a total of 18 tracks. The one bonus of the Apogees is they have optical in/out which makes them integrate well with the RME FF800, then everything is easily monitored through the FF800 monitoring setup.

Sure an upgrade to the 16 channel Lynx setup would be nice too, and since you have nice outboard pres maybe that makes the most sense.

[Dubai]

Originally Posted by purplevibs

Hello people this is my first post here but I've been reading the forum a long time.

My current setup is based on a Fireface 800 on to a Mac Pro using Cubase 5 and Logic Pro 9. I also have a good collection of mic pre amps (A-designs, Great river, Purple Audio, Api and Brent Averill) and some outboard gear (a pair of distressors, fatso, purple audio 77, space echo and api 2500).

I mostly use my studio for mixing projects but occasionally I also record local bands. I know feel that it is time to upgrade my convertors and get rid of the fireface. I'm currently limited by the 12ins/8outs of the fireface so something like 16 in/out would be what I'm looking for.

My budget is around $3000 but I can stretch it a little bit by selling something if needed. I've spend much time reading this forum and other sources but I'm in this point where the more I read the more I get confused so I just wanted to ask you what would be the best choice according to my current setup?

Metric Halo ULN-2 or ULN-8 are the best converters.
the ULN-2 clock is not good,
havent heard the ULN-8 clock.

[Mr XY]

I went from a FF800 to a Aurora 16 (with the HD card) and did feel it was a nice upgrade sonically. It's worth noting though that unless the rest of your studio is really top notch it's unlikely the RME is the weakest link, and feature wise is really hard to beat.

[Baz]

We have a Fireface 400 & 800 and had an Ensemble for about a year. Before we sold the Ensemble, I was using it in stand alone mode connected to the FF via ADAT but clocking from the Apogee. This was the best use of the Ensemble in the time we had it. We kept the FF's and but now run an Aurora 16AES-e. We weren't disappointed in the RME, we just thought it was time to upgrade to a higher protocol.

While I can't say I'm hearing any mind blowing difference on the AD side, I did however hear an immediate improvement on thee DA side. I have trouble articulating this stuff, but overall, the Lynx just didn't sound as 'hard' and the stereo field and depth improved - this was all the while listening to stuff tracked via the Ensemble and RME's.

As mentioned many, many times on forums, Totalmix is just the benchmark of all mixers (don't even get me started on Lynx's useless mixer) and the routing is fantastic. I especially love it for the remote stuff we do.Also, RME drivers set the standard as far as I'm concerned. I use both Mac and PC and they're absolutely rock solid on either platform.

I never have a problem using the FF's over the Lynx when I have to. There's a never even a hiccup from them. The only knock is the pre's. Short of utility duties, they're really not that great and have this weird haze about them. But we didn't pick them up for the pre's.

[purplevibs]

Originally Posted by Baz

We weren't disappointed in the RME, we just thought it was time to upgrade to a higher protocol.

This is one of the reasons that I feel the need to upgrade. Plus I also need more ins and outs.

Sonically I don't expect that much of a change but I was tracking a band at a friends studio the other day, using some of my preamps and a daw based on 2 rme adi and I surely had more headroom on my P-1's than in my setup.

I got a very good deal today on the SSL alpha link bundle with the ssl madi pcie card and I'm thinking about it. What gets me thinking is that I really like the rme drivers and the totalmix is excellent so maybe I could buy the rme raydat pcie card. Has anybody used this setup?

[HitzHits]

Originally Posted by Trp

I was in the very same position a year go and upgraded to a Lynx Aurora 16 with RME AES32 PCIe card. Couldn´t be happier, everything works flawlessly. I liked the Aurora better than the SSL.

RME is rock solid, highly recommended.

I use a SPL 2control as monitor controller betwenn the Aurora and my S3As.

I have made some changes in my studio and it is amazing what difference I can hear now. This is what I did:

- I exchanged the Mackie Big Knob to a SPL 2Control (highly recommendable - worlds apart IMO)
- I got the RME Raydat PCIe card and hooked it up (ADAT) with the FF800 which I was running with a Firewire before. This way I got rid of any latency issues I had before. Now I can work with near to no latency whereas I used to have issues before.

I tried so many things to get the mixes sound like in the studio (including spending 3K for Event Opal Monitors which I LOVE!!!!!) but these 2 changes did it for me.

I must admit that I was listening to the tests made here in gearslutz and I like the Lynx Converters. They sound little clearer to me so I might consider myself doing a similar switch as you are considering.

I am also looking at the Mytek which I like very much but are slightly more expensive.

I use Logic Pro 9.

[James Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Dubai

the ULN-2 clock is not good

Can you explain what has led you to draw this conclusion?

Most MH users find the ULN-2 clock to be very good indeed and often use it to clock their other gear!

[mfender]

I just upgraded from a Fireface 800 to the SSL AlphaLink MADI bundle. I couldn't be happier.

Honestly, it doesn't sound that much different (maybe a little clearer). My motivation was mainly just for lots more analog ins and outs.

[stag]

ESI - MaXiO 032e

you still can use your FF800,

[Multi-Monitors]

I use an Apogee Ensemble and have been pretty impressed...not sure how many inputs you need though...it has 4 XLR and 4 1/4 inch...so 8 inputs total...hope this helps

[~Zenshin Suru~]

I read that you are looking to ditch your FF800, but I just thought I'd add 2 cents to say that I've been using a rosetta 800 lightpiped to and from with good results (ie, superior conversion to the FF800 anyway).

[chadli]

Ok, that's two peeps on here with FF800 and rosetta thru ADAT. I gotta ask--how much difference in latency do you see between the two? I have an ISA-428 hooked up to my FF800's ADAT and I measure 28 samples *difference* in A/D time between the two at 96k. That comes to about 4 inches worth of mic placement difference. I hate having to be careful about not putting sounds from the same source on the two different converters.

[CAW]

I'll throw one in for the Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56. You get two liquid pres, 6 good standard pres, and two ADAT inputs to connect external pres to, plus an SPDIF. (And then all that again for outputs.) And the device has a decent internal mixer for zero-latency tracking when recording. At under $1000 for the Liquid 56, you'd have another $2000 left in your budget for an ADAT-based pre of your choice. I haven't used mine with ADAT (I don't have any external pres, as I'm new to the audio recording game). But I've been pretty happy with mine. And the latency on it seems very good. I've got microphone -> firewire to computer -> Ableton (w/ 128 samples buffer setting) -> UAD-2 SOLO/Laptop running EMT250 Reverb -> firewire back to 56 -> output to master out and I cannot perceive the latency. The latency setting for the Liquid's driver is set to 'Short' and I'm doing this at 96k.

[cinealta]

Originally Posted by Dubai

...the ULN-2 clock is not good....

What's wrong with the ULN-2 clock? I thought it's spec'd to +/- 10 ppm in frequency accuracy?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Dubai

Metric Halo ULN-2 or ULN-8 are the best converters.
the ULN-2 clock is not good,
havent heard the ULN-8 clock.

How can you say they are the "best" if the internal clock is no good?! "best" is subjective at any rate.

By the way you can't hear the clock, only it's results, which suggests you've never heard the converters you're recommending.

Other than that, great post!

[Geetarpicker]

Originally Posted by chadli

Ok, that's two peeps on here with FF800 and rosetta thru ADAT. I gotta ask--how much difference in latency do you see between the two? I have an ISA-428 hooked up to my FF800's ADAT and I measure 28 samples *difference* in A/D time between the two at 96k. That comes to about 4 inches worth of mic placement difference. I hate having to be careful about not putting sounds from the same source on the two different converters.

I get 12 samples quicker throughput (round trip) latency with my Rosetta via ADAT on my RME vs the built in RME AD/DA at 44.1k. Seems even with the optical feeds to/from the RME the Rosetta is a little quicker overall.

[kdp]

Check out the Steinberg MR816. If you're using Cubase 5 (as I am) it's a no bainer. Great sounding mic pre's, (I was using Neve 1272s & APIs) beautiful conversion, (I too was using RME) & total seamless intergration.

[DrSax]

Originally Posted by purplevibs

Thanks again matt.

I'm also looking at the SSL alpha link bundle with the madi pcie card which fits my needs and budget perfectly. But is 24 i/o with a pcie card for $3000 too good to be true?

I went from the fireface to the alphalink... Love it... The SSL are Great natural sounding converters. I chose them over the lynx.

[purplevibs]

I bought the SSL bundle with the madixtreme card!

Well after extensive tests last night I can only tell that this was a huge step up! The bottom end is clear, the highs are crisp and there are these warm mids that I noticed first! All I can say that I'm very happy, I need a monitor controller asap though

The only problem that conserns me is that there is an issue with the crosstalk. Crosstalk was my nightmare on the fireface, it was awful, there was crosstalk coming from channel 8 to channel 1!! Now on the SSL i sent a loud signal to channels 3-4 while I had my monitors connected to 1-2 but I had the output all the way down. I'm afraid that there was notable crosstalk! Nothing you can notice on average volume but still its there!