ASIO glitches under Windows 7 w/ Fireface - NVidia to blame????

[Timur Born]

If you do direct monitoring you get no latencies (other than the AD/DA conversion). So if you can work with 256/512 samples and don't need the lower latencies for anything than you are good to go.

I wonder a bit that the Standard VGA driver only support lower resolutions for you laptop. I am using a 9600M GT and the Standard driver offers the full 1920x1200 resolution. The main drawback is the lack of any 3D accelleration functions (no Aero, no games etc).

You could have a look at Microsoft's Update Catalog, maybe they offer a driver that works better.

One last workaround would be to put load onto your graphics. That will draw power and create heat, but it can help. What you need is some 3D benchmarking tool that does not tax your CPU too much, but only the GPU. Something like an ever spinning 3D cubus or so, whatever keeps the GPU clocked at high frequency and doesn't allow it to clock down. The Nvidia driver preferences could work, because it offers a 3D preview tab (but I think I tried that once and it still clocked down even while showing the animation).

BTW, the reason why the Standard driver helps is because it fixes the clock-rates, too.

Last but not least, you could consider to use XP instead of Windows 7. The NVidia driver offers the option to turn off "PowerMizer" on XP, which is just turning off the dynamic clocking. No such option on Vista/W7 though.

[DoctorAcoustic]

Originally Posted by Timur

I wonder a bit that the Standard VGA driver only support lower resolutions for you laptop. I am using a 9600M GT and the Standard driver offers the full 1920x1200 resolution. The main drawback is the lack of any 3D accelleration functions (no Aero, no games etc).

That is rather amazing. There is definitely no choice for my 1600X900 native monitor resolution.

Originally Posted by Timur

You could have a look at Microsoft's Update Catalog, maybe they offer a driver that works better.

I'll double check. I noticed that nVidia has a beta driver for the card, but the description of it reflects only improvements for gaming. Probably worth a try.

Originally Posted by Timur

Last but not least, you could consider to use XP instead of Windows 7. The NVidia driver offers the option to turn off "PowerMizer" on XP, which is just turning off the dynamic clocking. No such option on Vista/W7 though.

I gather you meant that I consider using XP as an OS rather than the XP drivers for the card. Methink the drivers actually are the same regardless of the OS.

Thanks again and again.

[Timur Born]

The driver package is the same (unified drivers), but on XP other options are available (like the PowerMizer option).

Concerning the Standard VGA drivers and resolution. Check what monitor driver is setup by windows. Usually it's a "Plug&Play Display" one. There are some standard monitors as well which you might want to go through. It's possible that the driver is capable of higher resolution, but thinks that the display doesn't offer more.

Good hunting!

[overfiend]

I actually ended up having to go back to XP...

I had the problem 99% sorted, but I had a random glitch every 10 minutes or so that would wreak havoc on what I was doing. So I tried everything suggested here and more, and still no luck.

I'm not too upset about it, as XP is running like a champ and I'm using a custom version which seems to be both highly optimized and perfect for audio use.

All in all, the arduous task of trying to troubleshoot Win7 for weeks on hand proved to be far less fruitful, and far more aggravating than just biting the bullet (which I did in the end) to go back to XP.

Ah well

[skygod]

Originally Posted by overfiend

Greetings Gearslutz...

First off, let me say that I consider myself well trained in the art of PC optimization for audio. I've been lurking here for a long time, and maybe I don't know as much as guys like Kara***d*** , but I'm far from just your average n00b.

Now that I've reformatted with Windows 7, I'm running into a strange problem with my FF800. I apologize if this is off-topic, as it's not in direct relation to the Fireface, but instead other devices which are impeding upon my baby's performance.

Whenever I move or resize a window, or minimize/maximize, I get an ASIO glitch of epic proportions... Now I know that it's not a good idea to be resizing windows or changing stuff during ASIO operation, but I do expect some degree of heartiness in this regard. In fact, I am using DPC Latency Checker, which also jumps into the yellow or red whenever this happens.

Lo and behold, I've gone into Device Manager and checked the Resources by Connection, and found that my NVidia card is on the same IRQ as my SATA controller... Of course ask Microsoft this question, and they say "it's OK for devices to share IRQs," as if it's no problem. But clearly I have two of the most high bandwidth devices on IRQ 16, and that would appear to be causing me some serious grief. After 2 reinstalls, a BIOS update, and every other tip and trick explored, I still have this issue (which I may add that I didn't encounter on Win XP).

It seems that outside of this IRQ sharing thing, the problem here is that the NVidia Graphics controller is hogging the bus... I'd tell it to stop being such a hog, but there are no options in the driver options or NVidia control panel that make much of a difference. I can always just run a generic driver, which has the added benefit of assigning a different IRQ to the card (reinstalling the NVidia driver then just switches it back to IRQ 16), but the generic driver has zero acceleration support, so just by virtue of the video performance being slow as molasses it doesn't function well.

Any ideas/suggestions/wisdom?

My setup (the part that's causing me grief) is:
Thinkpad T61p, 4GB ram
7200 RPM SATA drive
NVidia Quatro 570 discrete graphics w/ 256mb RAM
Intel Core2 T9300
Fireface 800
TI 1394 controller PCMCIA card, also Ricoh 1394 onboard

Dear Noob -

WINDOWS 7 X64 IS THE PROBLEM. Microsoft said so themselves. It’s posted on the Internet. There's a glitch in the ASIO drivers they wrote. Maybe a combined hardware-software issue? Maybe the Shadow knows? Whothefaakknows. Ever wonder why nobody has drivers for 7 x64 that actually work glitch free? Microsoft even has a sub website for developers to develop 'work-around' drivers in the interim until Win 8 x64 arrives next year.

RME has instructions for all their hardware/software to use Legacy drivers in WIN system setup loading their drivers. Presonus has a global X64 Beta driver that's supposed to work. The others are all cowards and are sitting on the fence .... Propllerhead, Ableton et al ad nauseum. All their FAQs on their websites are a cookie cutter response. XP32 yes, Vista 32/64 yes. 7 64 – were working on it. Right so is my grandmother. Go faak yourselves bunch of goddamned liars …..

They are waiting for Windows 8 to come out next year before they launch. Why? Because they are not stupid like us. We trusted Microsoft with the panacea Win 7 X64 that descended from the heavens from the "Lord of Hosts" of course. In fact the Archangel Gabriel brought it to us. It was nasty folks. Michael and the armies of heaven fought against Satan and the fallen demons every step of the way. The heavenly host lost ‘in that a traitor among them’ (lets call him ‘Angel Judas Iscariot Gates’) who left the fray in the middle of the raging celestial battle to made secret a personal deal with the devil (for another $200 Billion deposit into his Swiss bank account) to sabotage the 7 X64 drivers so all the earthlings would be stymied, stupefied, and totally confused in ALL forums discussing at great length the whertefores, the thereuntos, the heretefores, and the gezuntas ad nauseum without any hope whatsoever on the horizon. And in the process, all the dumb earthlings spent more wasted money on more garbage pro audio kitchenware that doesn’t work.

So all the earthlings are basically faaked for an entire year waiting on the new WIN 8 OS. In the meantime, all the desperado earthlings will make their summer and winter hejiras to the NAMM (a strange acronym for pro audio circle jerk) with their prayer carpets so that they can be deceived by more bullshit marketing consumer hype promise of stuff made in China that is supposed to work but does not, and almost as well as the useless Musiciansfriend or Guitar Center ‘protection plans’ that people buy and that the stores or chain never honor anyway because they always send you to a third party that doesn’t exist. Hey that’s California business savvy huh? It’s called the ‘non-existent corporate clause’ that drains the public dry of funds thru bullshit legalese meaningless fine print.

Hey it’s the 21st century. And all you socialists who voted for Obama, Pelosi and Reid are beginning to realize that they are all a bunch total liars, swindlers, and minor league dvvchebags after all. Good news though: 2012 is around the corner and it’ll be over for planet earth soon … Why?

BECAUSE Jesus Christ is Coming Soon!

~Giddyup~

PS.
The digital revolution failed folks.

Analog still rules and digital audio still sucks.

Hey but dat’s what I tink!

~fuggedaboudit!~

~skygod~

[overfiend]

I certainly hope you're trolling, because your response is absolutely full of dogshit...

First of all, as I said in my first post, I was running Win7 32-bit. Seems like you're a bit of a noob yourself - at reading comprehension. What, did you score under 200 on that section of the SATs?

Second of all, NVidia just released a driver a few weeks back that fixes the DPC latency issues for Win7, and it completely resolved my problems as well as countless others. I wonder where you get your information, considering that Microsoft doesn't write ASIO drivers. According to Microsoft's own MSDN site, "Please do also keep in mind that ASIO is not a Microsoft technology, and Windows has no built in support for it."

What are you, a total idiot? Seriously, you've done a terrible job here of trolling. And wait, the digital revolution has failed? That's pretty hilarious, considering that the overwhelming majority, if not all recordings, analog, digital, or otherwise, are being passed through a generation of digital. Even the releases that go straight to vinyl.

So... fuuck

Oh, and PS... You shouldn't get drunk before you reply to forum threads; it just makes you come off as a know-nothing jackass - another asshole who thinks they have a valid opinion.

Originally Posted by skygod

Dear Noob -

WINDOWS 7 X64 IS THE PROBLEM. Microsoft said so themselves. It’s posted on the Internet. There's a glitch in the ASIO drivers they wrote.
They are waiting for Windows 8 to come out next year before they launch. Why? Because they are not stupid like us.

Hey it’s the 21st century. And all you socialists who voted for Obama, Pelosi and Reid are beginning to realize that they are all a bunch total liars, swindlers, and minor league dvvchebags after all. Good news though: 2012 is around the corner and it’ll be over for planet earth soon … Why?

BECAUSE Jesus Christ is Coming Soon!

~Giddyup~

PS.
The digital revolution failed folks.

Analog still rules and digital audio still sucks.

Hey but dat’s what I tink!

~fuggedaboudit!~

~skygod~

[valis]

I think he was probably thinking of the Firewire changes MS made, which affects all default firewire drivers (like for TI chipsets etc) and caused most ASIO drivers to *barely* work and Wave/WDM under Win7-64 to fail completely until soundcard makers 'fix' things to work properly. This is the same 'problem' that is resolved by using the 'legacy' firewire driver...

Either way I would agree that his post was a rather over the top bit of trolling.

[Timur Born]

Two download suggestions:

1) For Fireface/Firewire users Microsoft released two hotfixes for the *non*-legacy Firewire port driver. The latest one says:

Transferred data is corrupted or the data transfer stops between an IEEE 1394 device and a computer that is running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2"

Transferred data is corrupted or the data transfer stops between an IEEE 1394 device and a computer that is running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2

2) The following tool is a good substitude for Rivatuner. It allows to switch NVidia Performance Modes without doing a reboot (including to turn on/off adaptive clock-rates to save power when you are not working on audio).

You need to run it "as Administrator" in order for it to detect and change the necessary registry keys. And you might need to have it "Create PowerMizer Settings" to first create those keys because on some setups they are not created by the NVidia driver setup.

PowerMizer Manager | Some More Bytes

PS: While the latest NVidia drivers mostly (but not necessarily completely) fix the huge DPC spikes that happen whenever clock-rates are switched they do not fix the 2D DPC issues on all hardware. My 9600M GT (bootcamped Macbook Pro) isn't fixed for example.

[bauwerk]

Ok, hungover like hell i just want to add to the fact that you shouldnt worry about irq sharing and so on, as far as i know it's a thing of the past oh man i feel sick just being reminded.

Turn off aero, any powersaving options, set the computer to optimized for background tasks, disable any onboard audio in bios, i was about to say "check your manufacturer" of motherboard and firewire, but i presume we are talking a laptop here so not much point , ah well try to update any firmware or bios you can get your hands on.

And well what a load of bullshit above about win7x64, yeah im fully aware of some manufacturers disrespecting you the costumer by not being top of the line when it comes to drivers, dont blame it on MS, this has been around long enough, what these companies needs is less MAGICAL hype about their new shit and a group of dedicated coders.
Anyway been running Win7x64 with Cubase since their rc release, no problems at all really, yeah im suprised to.

[valis]

Originally Posted by Timur

Two download suggestions:

1) For Fireface/Firewire users Microsoft released two hotfixes for the *non*-legacy Firewire port driver. The latest one says:



Transferred data is corrupted or the data transfer stops between an IEEE 1394 device and a computer that is running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2

2) The following tool is a good substitude for Rivatuner. It allows to switch NVidia Performance Modes without doing a reboot (including to turn on/off adaptive clock-rates to save power when you are not working on audio).

You need to run it "as Administrator" in order for it to detect and change the necessary registry keys. And you might need to have it "Create PowerMizer Settings" to first create those keys because on some setups they are not created by the NVidia driver setup.

PowerMizer Manager | Some More Bytes

PS: While the latest NVidia drivers mostly (but not necessarily completely) fix the huge DPC spikes that happen whenever clock-rates are switched they do not fix the 2D DPC issues on all hardware. My 9600M GT (bootcamped Macbook Pro) isn't fixed for example.

There are actually half a dozen IEEE 1394 Win7 related hotfixes that I see listed on Technet. Would you happen to know what the other one is that you're referencing (but not linking) for audio users?

[Winey]

exact same kind of issues here. Win7 64 cubase 5 Lynx AES16 aurora16. weird playback glitches and hicups (asio spikes) that seem to go away or get better for a bit, but eventually they rear their head again. doesn't matter if its a huge project or a tiny 16 bit one. buffer setting makes no difference. I feel like I've tried everything. I've always been suspicious of the nvidia driver causing conflict. I've disabled speedstep in the bios and changed all power management settings. the asio spikes just continue. going to try some other nvidia drivers and solutions suggested here tomorrow. weird thing is i have two systems almost identical. asus p6t in one and p5q in another. both have nvidia 9800gt. p5q machine has no issues while the p6t suffers from this problem. i will figure it out at some point.

[Timur Born]

Originally Posted by valis

There are actually half a dozen IEEE 1394 Win7 related hotfixes that I see listed on Technet. Would you happen to know what the other one is that you're referencing (but not linking) for audio users?

The other one I know about is described by Microsoft as solving harddrive related FW performance issues (and as far as I can tell it helped with my FW800 HD enclosure).

Anyway, the linked hotfix should still be the most current one and includes every fix of the past (the 1394ohci.sys driver file is replaced with a new one). Of cause this might still not help, but one can always try to use the "Legacy" driver instead.

[valis]

Originally Posted by Timur

The other one I know about is described by Microsoft as solving harddrive related FW performance issues (and as far as I can tell it helped with my FW800 HD enclosure).

Anyway, the linked hotfix should still be the most current one and includes every fix of the past (the 1394ohci.sys driver file is replaced with a new one). Of cause this might still not help, but one can always try to use the "Legacy" driver instead.

Yea I have a few systems where I've had to use the "Legacy" driver so thanks for the link. I recall MS originally saying that they weren't going to bother 'fixing' the issues with firewire that are affecting audio users until at least Sp1, though this was via Focusrite/M-audio other companies marketing interfaces. It would be nice to see that the issue(s) I've experienced there are fixed already.

[Pete Kaine]

If it's the same glitching issue I think it is (and your use of native drivers suggest it is) then it's a bug involving some updates to the Physix or cuda drivers they intrigrated last year (I think it's one of those, but not 100% sure).

It doesn't crop up in a lot of instances but I've noticed it when using Cubase 5 in a couple of configurations althrough it's not a constant on every machine which makes me think the's another factor I've not established yet.

Anyhow if it's the problem I think it is then the answer is to roll back to a driver that supports win7 but doesn't have the whole Physix/cuda drivers set as well.

The earliest I can find at the moment are the 185's: GeForce Forceware 185.85 Windows 7 64-bit WHQL download from Guru3D.com

Which might help. I'm pretty sure it was a 182 release that I used last time to fix this for someone but I can't find a release of it that offically supports Win 7 64.

Failing that you may want to try (in fact you could try this first) going into the nvidia control panel within your computer control panel and disabling the Physx support. Suppose that would prove or disprove my theory on them causing it.

[Winey]

Originally Posted by Pete Kaine

If it's the same glitching issue I think it is (and your use of native drivers suggest it is) then it's a bug involving some updates to the Physix or cuda drivers they intrigrated last year (I think it's one of those, but not 100% sure).

It doesn't crop up in a lot of instances but I've noticed it when using Cubase 5 in a couple of configurations althrough it's not a constant on every machine which makes me think the's another factor I've not established yet.

Anyhow if it's the problem I think it is then the answer is to roll back to a driver that supports win7 but doesn't have the whole Physix/cuda drivers set as well.

The earliest I can find at the moment are the 185's: GeForce Forceware 185.85 Windows 7 64-bit WHQL download from Guru3D.com

Which might help. I'm pretty sure it was a 182 release that I used last time to fix this for someone but I can't find a release of it that offically supports Win 7 64.

Failing that you may want to try (in fact you could try this first) going into the nvidia control panel within your computer control panel and disabling the Physx support. Suppose that would prove or disprove my theory on them causing it.

Can't thank you enough! This completely solved my issues. Although i did turn off turbomode and C1 in the Bios as well, but my system is running top notch and glitch free now. You're a godsend.

[Timur Born]

So did you install the old version driver or did you just turn off Physix in the new version driver to fix your problems?

[Pete Kaine]

Originally Posted by Winey

Can't thank you enough! This completely solved my issues. Although i did turn off turbomode and C1 in the Bios as well, but my system is running top notch and glitch free now. You're a godsend.

Good to hear!

So yeah, which did it for you. I know the driver roll back works in most cases but if you've just proved my Physix disabling theory then I'll be quite chuffed

[Winey]

I'm not sure what did the trick. I first tried uninstalling the newest Nvidia driver and running cubase with the windows video driver. Still had same problems. So... I then installed the driver you suggested and on restart decided to disable c1 and turbo again. Problem gone. I was too happy to troubleshoot which action specifically did the trick. I might update the Nvidia driver again and see what happens, but for now I'm just loving working without explaining to the client why the playback is making strange noises now and again! seriously thanks. Even Lynx tech support couldn't track down the problem.

[Winey]

Originally Posted by Timur

So did you install the old version driver or did you just turn off Physix in the new version driver to fix your problems?

Installed the old driver. Disabling Physix on the newest driver didn't help my problems.

[Pete Kaine]

Originally Posted by Winey

Installed the old driver. Disabling Physix on the newest driver didn't help my problems.

Ahh, that's all I needed to know. Cheers for getting back to us and glad I could help