Are there any alternative for Vocalign pro for Logic?

Undiscovered · 10th January 2010

Hey all, I just bought a lot of plugins and I want to see if I can find any alternatives for vocalign.

I want to tighen up the doubles on my lead vocals, back up vocals and some guitar rhythm and solo parts.

Vocalign pro for logic is expensive so does Logic come with any vocalign effects built in?

Would this work in logic 9? I was thinking about maybe flexing both the original and dub tracks to scan for there transiets. Then I was thinking about quantizing the audio of the dub track to the original track. Would this give me a tight Vocalign effect.

I heard there were ways of quantizing your bass guitar track to your kick track or vice versa to get the rhythm tight.

So would this work for vocals for doubles?

Or do I really need Vocalign pro?

Thank you.

Ol' Betsey · 10th January 2010

Yep you can use flex time for this.

I rarely use Vocalign anymore to be honest.

Mind you I don't do lots of BV stacks etc but for doubles (vocals, guitars, aligning bass/kick) it works great.

But what I really DON'T do is quantize the audio very often. It just never sounds right to me. I'll go through and move the notes around manually to try and get it sounding as organic as possible. It takes a little longer but I find the results much better.

Maybe try and watch a few of the more in-depth tutorials out there so you can really get an idea of what's possible with Flex.

R.

djgizmo · 10th January 2010

Interested in selling your VocAlign license Ol' Betsey?

Undiscovered · 10th January 2010

Hey thank you for the quick reply. I appreciate it.
I will try using flex as you suggested.

Also I forgot to mention that I have Melodyne editor, Auto tune Evo and Waves tune, Would any of these be able to pull a vocalign effect for tight vocal doubles or would flex be better?

Thanks again.

Undiscovered · 10th January 2010

Also I would like to start another debate.

Should I not humanly do another vocal take BUT.. Use the orignal through effects like Waves Doubler, Ultra pitch and other harmony effects?

Are they believable?

I know the answer is try myself both methods and see what I like best, But I want to know what most pros suggest and use.

Do you have your talent do double and triple takes?
or
Do you have your talent sing once perfectly and then use plugins for double and harmonized effects?

Your experiences??

djgizmo · 10th January 2010

Soft doubling effects never (or rarely) sound like the real thing.

If you want the effect and you know how to do it VIA recording... do it the right way.

Rufuss Sewell · 10th January 2010

Record it twice.

Melodyne or flex will work.

Ol' Betsey · 10th January 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by djgizmo

Interested in selling your VocAlign license Ol' Betsey?

Sorry Djgizmo, I don't actually have VocAlign on my computer.

I used to use it all the time at my mix engineers studio while prepping the tracks for mixing but as I said, now I use either EA or Flex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djgizmo

Soft doubling effects never (or rarely) sound like the real thing.

And I agree. Doubling a vocal with a effects and using two (or five) separate layered takes never sounds the same. And rarely as good unless the artificial double-vibe is what your going for?

R.

JordansVoice · 23rd November 2011

Sorry to revive an old thread but it's totally applicable to my question. Can't afford Vocalign but already have Melodyne Essential. I haven't tried messing with Melodyne to synchronize backing vocal takes to the lead yet. I've seen it done in Vocalign before beautifully.

I know you edit/squeeze/stretch the audio in Melodyne but don't you need to see the "reference" wav form while editing? I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to keep stretching/squeezing in melodyne, playback, still sounds out of sync, stretch more, etc. If you could actually see see your hitpoints/wav forms lining up it would probably speed up the process, no?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

.

DaveE · 23rd November 2011

My workflow is pretty much: 1) do all editing, 2) do all autotuning, then render, then 3) do all vocaligning. If money is an issue your best bet is to just edit it all manually or you could send your files to some guy who has vocalign (ahem) then he can process and send back. I charge an affordable hourly rate for this and I can get a lot of vocaligning done in just one hour.

JordansVoice · 23rd November 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveE

My workflow is pretty much: 1) do all editing, 2) do all autotuning, then render, then 3) do all vocaligning. If money is an issue your best bet is to just edit it all manually or you could send your files to some guy who has vocalign (ahem) then he can process and send back. I charge an affordable hourly rate for this and I can get a lot of vocaligning done in just one hour.

I understand that workflow, but thank you. I'm wondering what peoples workflow is when using Melodyne in the same manner as Vocalign. And it's good to know about your services

.

jerjabs · 2 Weeks Ago

What about tightening up doubled or quadrupled guitar parts? Any go to plugs for that? I know flex time lets you nudge stuff around, but I'm looking for a faster way ala vocalign.

psycho_monkey · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerjabs

What about tightening up doubled or quadrupled guitar parts? Any go to plugs for that? I know flex time lets you nudge stuff around, but I'm looking for a faster way ala vocalign.

No shortcuts to quality. Manual editing always beats any sort of automated process here.

RyanC · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

No shortcuts to quality. Manual editing always beats any sort of automated process here.

In the all about music ascap expo Dr Luke talks about using vocalign for vocal and guitar parts and he is a freak for details.

I see these two things as different things. If you want humanly lined up stuff like it was played tight you could use flex/ea etc, but when you want that vocalign level of tightness it's not the same thing, it's like a real version of a chorus effect. Same thing with using AT to track pitch and then copy/pasting the redline and retrack....there is not manual way to do that.

gideon352 · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

No shortcuts to quality. Manual editing always beats any sort of automated process here.

+1.

F.M. · 2 Weeks Ago

FWIW, I find melodyne is way more effort than flextime when it comes to lining up vocal doubles and kicks and so on. The visual feedback of setting the tracks next to one another and flexing is just too useful. Sometimes flextime artifacts are a drag but on stacked bkups? Generally not an issue.

Oh, and just track extra bkups. less work and better results.

10th January 2010	#1
Undiscovered Gear nut Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 121 Thread Starter	Are there any alternative for Vocalign pro for Logic? Hey all, I just bought a lot of plugins and I want to see if I can find any alternatives for vocalign. I want to tighen up the doubles on my lead vocals, back up vocals and some guitar rhythm and solo parts. Vocalign pro for logic is expensive so does Logic come with any vocalign effects built in? Would this work in logic 9? I was thinking about maybe flexing both the original and dub tracks to scan for there transiets. Then I was thinking about quantizing the audio of the dub track to the original track. Would this give me a tight Vocalign effect. I heard there were ways of quantizing your bass guitar track to your kick track or vice versa to get the rhythm tight. So would this work for vocals for doubles? Or do I really need Vocalign pro? Thank you.

10th January 2010	#2
Ol' Betsey Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,035 1 Review written	Yep you can use flex time for this. I rarely use Vocalign anymore to be honest. Mind you I don't do lots of BV stacks etc but for doubles (vocals, guitars, aligning bass/kick) it works great. But what I really DON'T do is quantize the audio very often. It just never sounds right to me. I'll go through and move the notes around manually to try and get it sounding as organic as possible. It takes a little longer but I find the results much better. Maybe try and watch a few of the more in-depth tutorials out there so you can really get an idea of what's possible with Flex. R. __________________ The Speaker Snuggy is specifically designed to compensate for the additive effect of using plugins which literally remove the blanket from your speakers. These plugins can sound good when solo'd, but when used across dozens of tracks they can leave your speakers sounding cold and insecure. (Casey / Bricasti) When I haven't any blue I use red. (Pablo Picasso) Ol' Betsey Satan - The Original Flower Shop 8 track - "She fought long and she fought hard..."

23rd November 2011	#10
DaveE Semi-Pro Joined: Apr 2010 Location: USA Posts: 1,022 2 Reviews written	My workflow is pretty much: 1) do all editing, 2) do all autotuning, then render, then 3) do all vocaligning. If money is an issue your best bet is to just edit it all manually or you could send your files to some guy who has vocalign (ahem) then he can process and send back. I charge an affordable hourly rate for this and I can get a lot of vocaligning done in just one hour. __________________ So-Cal Sound Design

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10th January 2010	#3
djgizmo Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 1,062 1 Review written	Interested in selling your VocAlign license Ol' Betsey?

10th January 2010	#7
Rufuss Sewell Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,935	Record it twice. Melodyne or flex will work.

23rd November 2011	#9
JordansVoice Gear interested Joined: Nov 2010 Location: Denver, CO, USA Posts: 26 3 Reviews written	Sorry to revive an old thread but it's totally applicable to my question. Can't afford Vocalign but already have Melodyne Essential. I haven't tried messing with Melodyne to synchronize backing vocal takes to the lead yet. I've seen it done in Vocalign before beautifully. I know you edit/squeeze/stretch the audio in Melodyne but don't you need to see the "reference" wav form while editing? I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to keep stretching/squeezing in melodyne, playback, still sounds out of sync, stretch more, etc. If you could actually see see your hitpoints/wav forms lining up it would probably speed up the process, no? Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks .

2 Weeks Ago	#12
jerjabs Gear nut Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 101 2 Reviews written	What about tightening up doubled or quadrupled guitar parts? Any go to plugs for that? I know flex time lets you nudge stuff around, but I'm looking for a faster way ala vocalign.

2 Weeks Ago	#16
F.M. Gear interested Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 29	FWIW, I find melodyne is way more effort than flextime when it comes to lining up vocal doubles and kicks and so on. The visual feedback of setting the tracks next to one another and flexing is just too useful. Sometimes flextime artifacts are a drag but on stacked bkups? Generally not an issue. Oh, and just track extra bkups. less work and better results.