Logic 10 - What do you want?

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by lllubi

a plugin developer who was working on PT 10 left Apple for Line 6 lately

Since Apple doesn't "work on" PT, do you mean "left Avid"? ACcording to this post, a main Avid guy, who is (was?) an active member here, apparently left Avid and started to work for Line6 not long ago.

[FredFraikin]

I'm along time user of Logic from back in the days (Notator) as well as ProTools (Sound designer SD1)
I'm still using both everyday Logic pro and Protools HD10.
Logic pro 9.1.7 is great, I mean really really cool, IMO it's become in many aspect superior to PT with better integration of midi and audio, better CPU efficiency, it's a better/easier tool to compose, to produce but...still is not as good as Protools when it comes down to edit and mix.

Some suggestions:
- Pan on send (a must)
- Sends with a slider "please" and a level indicator would be handy
- 64 bit floating mixer all the way to every channel strip and native plugins
- 32 bit floating audio files
- Better handling/editing of audio files just like in Protools
- A pop up option that allows a big floating fader when you wanna ride the automation for example of a vocal on the fly.
- independent left/right pan on stereo channel strips
- option to save a session with a different sample rate and/or bit depth
- option to rename inputs/output/busses/sends per session and with a simple right click a la protools greatly improves a mixing/recording workflow.
- audio files trim just like in cubase, nuendo and now protools
- automation easier global trim
- grid copy/paste automation on any track
- a tape and a console emulation option on every channel ;-)

[deft_bonz]

I'd like that Logic X can import ANY kind of audio files. I expect that from any professional DAW. I dont' understand why a software company wouldn't implement such a thing.

[nativeaudio]

Hi!

Originally Posted by FredFraikin

- 64 bit floating mixer all the way to every channel strip and native plugins

I read somewhere that Logic already is "64-bit when needed". Are you sure it isn't, and if so - how do you notice?

- Better handling/editing of audio files just like in Protools

I guess someone from Apple follows this thread, so if you suggest something more detailed, it's more likely to happen:-)

- option to save a session with a different sample rate and/or bit depth

In case you forgot: You can convert your files to a different sample rate/bit depth (and file format, stereo conversion, dither type) with one click. Just click Control-C, or look for Copy/Convert Files in the Audio Bin's Audio File menu. Next time you press save, the project will be saved with the regions referenced to the new file formats etc, unless, of course, you have disabled "Change File Reference in Bin" in the dialog which pops up.

- audio files trim just like in cubase, nuendo and now protools

How are they different than Logic's behaviour?

Logic's Crop command crops (trims) regions both leftwards and rightwards in one operation, according to the (Marquee) selection. You can trim audio region start/end with "Set Region/Event/Marquee Start to Playhead Position" and "Set Region/Event/Marquee End to Playhead Position".

"Convert regions to new audio files" in Arrange creates new files trimmed according to the current region start- and end points, and Optimize Files (an option in the Audio Bin menus) trims away stuff from existing regions/files (outside left/right region borders), destructively, with or without a 'security pad' on the sides.

grid copy/paste automation on any track

I do that a lot, by selecting with the Marquee tool on top of visible automation, using the standard Copy and Paste functions. The Marquee tool snaps to whatever grid you have set in the Snap menu... but maybe I misunderstand what want?

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by FredFraikin

- grid copy/paste automation on any track

That's already available in Logic 8

There is a drop down menu on the upper right corner. Don't remember its name atm. When you open it, there is an entry called something like "Snap to grid" or the like.

[FredFraikin]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Hi!

I read somewhere that Logic already is "64-bit when needed". Are you sure it isn't, and if so - how do you notice?

I guess someone from Apple follows this thread, so if you suggest something more detailed, it's more likely to happen:-)

In case you forgot: You can convert your files to a different sample rate/bit depth (and file format, stereo conversion, dither type) with one click. Just click Control-C, or look for Copy/Convert Files in the Audio Bin's Audio File menu. Next time you press save, the project will be saved with the regions referenced to the new file formats etc, unless, of course, you have disabled "Change File Reference in Bin" in the dialog which pops up.

How are they different than Logic's behaviour?

Logic's Crop command crops (trims) regions both leftwards and rightwards in one operation, according to the (Marquee) selection. You can trim audio region start/end with "Set Region/Event/Marquee Start to Playhead Position" and "Set Region/Event/Marquee End to Playhead Position".


"Convert regions to new audio files" in Arrange creates new files trimmed according to the current region start- and end points, and Optimize Files (an option in the Audio Bin menus) trims away stuff from existing regions/files (outside left/right region borders), destructively, with or without a 'security pad' on the sides.

I do that a lot, by selecting with the Marquee tool on top of visible automation, using the standard Copy and Paste functions. The Marquee tool snaps to whatever grid you have set in the Snap menu... but maybe I misunderstand what want?

Indeed but for memory access, I know for a lot of people it's confusing. What I meant is the audio resolution 32 bit audio files and 64bit on the mixer resolution = 384db headroom instead of the current 192db

You're probably right about apple... I'll take some more time later on to develop my thoughts

QUOTE=nativeaudio;8191104]
In case you forgot: You can convert your files to a different sample rate/bit depth (and file format, stereo conversion, dither type) with one click. Just click Control-C, or look for Copy/Convert Files in the Audio Bin's Audio File menu. Next time you press save, the project will be saved with the regions referenced to the new file formats etc, unless, of course, you have disabled "Change File Reference in Bin" in the dialog which pops up.

I know that, what I'd like to see is an "easier way" more straight forward not in the session but only a "save as" that won't change the session ( and drive all your digital outboard into panic ) while you're still busy working on the session.

My bad I meant trim the volume/level of audio files a "clip gain" not the audio wave length trim

About the automation, my bad again sorry, what I mean is copy one automation from let's say a synth part to another track for ex on a guitar in a easy 2 steps way with just a click copy and a click paste

As I said in my previous post Logic is a great tool it can do almost anything and everything other daws do but most of it in an uneasy way thru to many steps/pages.
To me the new Logic X needs to be more straight forward 1, 2 clicks and you're there.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by FredFraikin

I know that, what I'd like to see is an "easier way" more straight forward not in the session but only a "save as" that won't change the session

But Logic's way won't change the session if "Change File Reference in Bin" isn't activated...

My bad I meant trim the volume/level of audio files a "clip gain" not the audio wave length trim

Logic has a Gain feature as well, in the Inspector, where you can 'trim' the level of each region.

About the automation, my bad again sorry, what I mean is copy one automation from let's say a synth part to another track for ex on a guitar in a easy 2 steps way with just a click copy and a click paste

I'm still confused... :-) You can copy automation, plugin settings and whole channel strip settings between tracks already... do you suggest that if you copy eg. EQ automation in PT to another track, PT will insert that effect for you on the new track as well?

Logic is a great tool it can do almost anything and everything other daws do but most of it in an uneasy way thru to many steps/pages.

I haven't seen many examples of that actually, in spite of having looked hard for them. :-) Things like Beat Detective and Beat mapping is a lot easier in Logic from what I can tell, and lots of other stuff Logic can do (freezing tracks, offline bouncing, having multiple sessions open simultaneously, 64-bit memory address, switching mono/stereo etc formats on the channel strip itself and many other things listed here isn't even possible in PT.

To me the new Logic X needs to be more straight forward.

More straightforward always sounds good. :-) I don't think PT is that straightforward, actually, but it has a few things Logic doesn't have (and vice versa). Panning in sends is one of them. If PT's mixer has a 64-bit resolution, and Logic doesn't, that's another one. In that case, Logic isn't "64-bit when needed", but I wouldn't know how a change would improve my mixing process though....

[manysounds]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

I'd like that Logic X can import ANY kind of audio files. I expect that from any professional DAW. I dont' understand why a software company wouldn't implement such a thing.

FLAC?

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Since Apple doesn't "work on" PT, do you mean "left Avid"? ACcording to this post, a main Avid guy, who is (was?) an active member here, apparently left Avid and started to work for Line6 not long ago.

sorry, did mistake Peter Gorges for Max Gutnik

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by manysounds

FLAC?

It's time!!!

[Leevi]

Hold on folks, soon we wont have updates left for Logic 11 and 12!

[meeo]

Find it quickly, kind of like a "spotlight" for plugins, just start typing the plugin press enter. No more scrolling up and down the plugin-list.

Hope this isn´t already in the wish list.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Leevi

Hold on folks, soon we wont have updates left for Logic 11 and 12!

Oh we will. After 10 comes out and we notice how few of the mentioned ones are included.....there'll be loads left.

[FredFraikin]

[QUOTE=nativeaudio;8194013]
I know I do repeat myself. Logic pro is great I'm using it everyday except Sundays. Certain features could be improved:
Ex: instead of a cmd9 + select all files + copy/convert all files + a save ( a new session ) with a new name for the new sample rate. How about a simple straight forward "save as" with the option to save under a different sample rate/bit depth and wave format all at once?. I bet that for a lot of people it will improve there everyday work.

Same goes for the mixer resolution. Of course if I get to mix 20 to 30 Tracks it doesn't matter that much but with my work, I do get often to mix 80 to a 100 tracks, 64 bit would make a sensitive difference as well as a gain trim on the waves in the arrange window where I'll be able to trim up or down the gain of multiple files at the same time instead of the inspector.

;-)

[nativeaudio]

Hi Fred, I'm also all for suggestions which makes things simpler/faster and more obvious. :-) And re. your wish "option to save a session with a different sample rate and/or bit depth", my point is only that you can do it already, either from the Audio Bin in Arrange or the dedicated Audio Bin window - for those who aren't aware of this solution. I still keep discovering features in Logic myself, and know a few who 'Logic oldies' like you and me who haven't ben aware of this one.

Originally Posted by meeo

Find it quickly, kind of like a "spotlight" for plugins, just start typing the plugin press enter. No more scrolling up and down the plugin-list.

Hope this isn´t already in the wish list.

I don't think it's in the wish list already - and the existing 'spotlight for plugins' (Media>Library search field) only finds preset, channel strip or folder names, not actual plug-in names. It's not 100% spotlight like either, becuase you have to search the old way, by typing something and pressing Enter.

[FredFraikin]

Haha ok!
Maybe I'm missing something here, but my point is not just to have the audio files converted, but the whole session with one click ready to be shared on for ex. a local network or a server
You're a long time user so you know that features have been added for more than a decade on basically the same platform/skeleton spread all over the menus and sub menus not necessarily in a logical way. Even long time users like us are still discovering new ways and features, so for a new comer it must be an adventure.

My point is the next level of the Logic board should start with " let's make this baby easier and more straight forward so people that are discovering it will love it in an instant and the "veterans" will turn exclusively to it because of it's powerful features and it simplicity of use".
The few remarks I've mention in my earlier post are the one keeping a lot of ProTools users to make the big jump into Logic...it's about the workflow.

F.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by FredFraikin

the whole session with one click ready to be shared on for ex. a local network or a server

OK, I see. This needs maybe 5 clicks or so in Logic and could take up to maybe 30 seconds. For people who do this a lot, a faster solution is of course interesting.

You're a long time user so you know that features have been added for more than a decade on basically the same platform/skeleton spread all over the menus and sub menus not necessarily in a logical way.

I don't know how much is left of the old code, but there has been some dramatic changes in the whole workflow/UI concept over the last few years -like eg. the consolidated window concept which came with Logic 8.

There will of course be improvements, but when I look at other DAWs, or ask questions to other users of other DAWs, I don't have the feeling that everything is straightforward there either. I tried PT for the first time in several years not long ago, and found it everything but logical in many areas - even after having checked the manual, asked questions to people who know PT well checked YouTube clips etc. I even started a thread about it here.

With the changes in Logic that came especially with L8 and L9, I believe Logic has become a lot easier to learn for newbies than it used to be. L8 and L9 are both lot more streamlined than earlier versions, and especially Logic 9 offer some solutions no other DAW have implemented so elegantly.

Our personal lists of what we'd like to see changed in coming versions simply aren't the similar (which makes this thread relevant - and interesting!). I think a lot of this has to do with habits more than anything else.

Apple will probably look at suggestions from users of all the main DAWs and implement what they find most relevant - or better: come up with a smarter solution, one step at a time. :-)

[nightsymbol]

To come up with the best Logic ever, I hope Apple takes a good look what Reaper has to offer:

- full GUI customisation
- deep audio editing (surpasses even Protools, from what I heard)
- best support of all cores
- extremely fast
- updates very frequently and low cost

[FredFraikin]

I've just checked their website. Looks great, I'm gonna demo it ;-)

[danerius]

Originally Posted by nightsymbol

To come up with the best Logic ever, I hope Apple takes a good look what Reaper has to offer:

- full GUI customisation
- deep audio editing (surpasses even Protools, from what I heard)
- best support of all cores
- extremely fast
- updates very frequently and low cost

And their delay, reverb + eq plugs have settings for notes length and pitch

Regards /Bo

[heimaufnahme]

1. Editing audio in arranger window (as in Cubase or Nuendo). This applies to potential new features such as pitch correction, too.
2. Easier and less cluttered GUI, e.g. fewer drop down menus.
3. Give the user the choice between a more key shortcut based way of working and a more "analogue" style of working, meaning moving faders and knobs with your mouse (prefer the latter).
4. Easier to use software instruments, esp. synths, and sampler. Fewer tweaking options in favour of getting to a result more quickly.

Get rid of the environment instead. Newer needed it and never used it anyway.
Get rid of destructive editing features or make sure there will be a copy of the original file as well.

Am I talking about a product by a competitor? Too bad, all my projects are Logic projects.

[KorgAddict]

Originally Posted by heimaufnahme

1. Editing audio in arranger window (as in Cubase or Nuendo). This applies to potential new features such as pitch correction, too.
2. Easier and less cluttered GUI, e.g. fewer drop down menus.
3. Give the user the choice between a more key shortcut based way of working and a more "analogue" style of working, meaning moving faders and knobs with your mouse (prefer the latter).
4. Easier to use software instruments, esp. synths, and sampler. Fewer tweaking options in favour of getting to a result more quickly.

Get rid of the environment instead. Newer needed it and never used it anyway.
Get rid of destructive editing features or make sure there will be a copy of the original file as well.

Am I talking about a product by a competitor? Too bad, all my projects are Logic projects.

You bought Logic last week, right?

KA

[al808]

Originally Posted by heimaufnahme

1. Editing audio in arranger window (as in Cubase or Nuendo). This applies to potential new features such as pitch correction, too.
2. Easier and less cluttered GUI, e.g. fewer drop down menus.
3. Give the user the choice between a more key shortcut based way of working and a more "analogue" style of working, meaning moving faders and knobs with your mouse (prefer the latter).
4. Easier to use software instruments, esp. synths, and sampler. Fewer tweaking options in favour of getting to a result more quickly.

Get rid of the environment instead. Newer needed it and never used it anyway.
Get rid of destructive editing features or make sure there will be a copy of the original file as well.

Am I talking about a product by a competitor? Too bad, all my projects are Logic projects.

Why don't you just use garage band?

[bruno garza]

Originally Posted by heimaufnahme

Get rid of the environment instead. Newer needed it and never used it anyway.

A MIDI Drum loop is played thru several of my customized Logic 9 Environment Macros and are generating MIDI notes for the keyboard and bass.
I'm using ThumbJam to play a lead guitar piece.
Band in Logic 9 with ThumbJam - YouTube

Playing a Piano MIDI File thru my customize Logic 9 Environment Macros that I created.
These are music scale Macros where I can experiment to capture a bar or two to create a new music piece.
I'm barely using the over 1000 scales that I created.
Logic 9 Customized Scale Environment Macros - YouTube

And yes with my Logic Template(s) I can record all the MIDI that gets played so I can further edit it in the piano roll editor.

So while you "Newer" need it, I find it nice to help with creating new musical ideas.

[JackHThompson]

In Logic Pro X, gosh there are just so many things I'd like to see? For instance, I switched to Ableton earlier this year because I find the midi note sequencing is in favour of keyboard players and not programmers. Well it is definitely a goal of mine to learn the piano, at the moment, me and a piano = the sound of high heels on a guitar (well maybe not that bad). The main reason I left was because I found it to be obscenely difficult just to program in a couple of bars of anything particularly complex. Ableton makes it super easy to punch in notes and change the length or velocity in just a few clicks. I REALLY want to see Logic Pro X improve on this! Logic has a lot of advantages, for example, everything you really need to be functional as a producer comes packed in the program for only $200 USD. For those that are just starting out, this is an excellent selling point, but a massive library of software instruments and sounds is only the begining. We producers need intuitive controls that are designed to help us work fast so we can realize our vision without frustration.

[Companda]

Originally Posted by JackHThompson

The main reason I left was because I found it to be obscenely difficult just to program in a couple of bars of anything particularly complex. Ableton makes it super easy to punch in notes and change the length or velocity in just a few clicks. I REALLY want to see Logic Pro X improve on this! .

Hmmm... Either Ableton is amazingly super remarkable at this or you don't know how to use logic. I like you prefer to program over play. Sometimes I use the CAPS keyboard for a little more groove on singular or dual notes. First of all, you do realize there is a velocity tool for the piano roll don't you, and that selecting notes and extending, shortening is pretty easy too... one thing I admit is a bit annoying is that it draws the same length note as you previously drew but I'm sure there is a setting for that somewhere.

So... Is it you or should I be purchasing Ableton. I came from reason to Logic and found it head and shoulders above.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by JackHThompson

Ableton makes it super easy to punch in notes and change the length or velocity in just a few clicks.

This can be done in a few clicks/seconds in Logic as well, which makes me wonder exactly how you think Live does it better? What does live do which Logic doesn't do?

[hugol]

A faster (re-draw speed etc) and prettier GUI.

A 64-bit mix-bus would be nice (just to keep up with the competition).

Better low latency performance.

Better sample editing.

Faster start-up and the ability to have multiple projects open at the same time, so you can compare/cut and paste stuff between projects (without that nasty slow reloading time every time you switch).

All plug-ins running within a protected layer (e.g. independent process), so a plug-in crash doesn't bring down your DAW.

A bit-bridge that doesn't limit you to opening one 32-bit plug-in GUI at once.

[emgbiotch]

What I want is for Logic and Ableton to merge into 1 DAW.

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by hugol

A 64-bit mix-bus would be nice (just to keep up with the competition).

A bit-bridge that doesn't limit you to opening one 32-bit plug-in GUI at once.

Until Logic X is out, we'll have 128 bit
Then fiddling around with a 64 to 128 bit bridge