Logic 10 - What do you want?

[sbackdoor]

I would love to see automation behave like in Ableton Live;
touch ANY parameter anywhere, plugins or mixer, etc, (touch, not move and record) and it gets selected in the arrangement, ready to be recorded or drawn. In Logic I either have to go thru a huge list of parameters, or actually record some automation first for the parameter to appear in the automation view. Yuck.

[nativeaudio]

Touch mode has worked like that in Logic since before Ableton existed.

Try to press View Automation (key: A) and see what happens when you try.

[Dick_Money]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Touch mode has worked like that in Logic since before Ableton existed.

Try to press View Automation (key: A) and see what happens when you try.

Could be wrong but think he is saying to have the automation show in automation view. In that either you have to record some automation to show, or go through a long list. Just clicking a parameter does not default automation view to that parameter.

To get around this I usually record a sec of automation then delete it, instead of looking through lists. But yes would be nice if automation view defaulted to any selection.

Could be wrong but think you misread his post and just wanted to quickly defend logic.

[sbackdoor]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Touch mode has worked like that in Logic since before Ableton existed.

Try to press View Automation (key: A) and see what happens when you try.

I didn't say that.

[sbackdoor]

Originally Posted by Dick_Money

Could be wrong but think he is saying to have the automation show in automation view. In that either you have to record some automation to show, or go through a long list. Just clicking a parameter does not default automation view to that parameter.

To get around this I usually record a sec of automation then delete it, instead of looking through lists. But yes would be nice if automation view defaulted to any selection.

Could be wrong but think you misread his post and just wanted to quickly defend logic.

Yep I said that.
Say you want to automate the LFO rate on Massive. In Ableton you just click the LFO rate knob on Massive and it's right there. Nothing to record first, no long list to go thru first.

But yes I do that too, record a small bit in touch mode, then delete it.
I just think the Ableton way is a lot more transparent.

[nativeaudio]

touch ANY parameter anywhere, plugins or mixer, etc, (touch, not move and record) and it gets selected in the arrangement, ready to be recorded or drawn.

I think I missed the part about 'drawn', because in touch mode you are ready to record any automatable parameters once you are in touch mode. But of course - there may be also be benefits with the Ableton solution I'm not aware of even also when one wants to record automation. I've hardly used Live.

[manysounds]

I want Logic X to be released before Bitwig is done

[muziksculp]

Originally Posted by manysounds

I want Logic X to be released before Bitwig is done

2013

[KorgAddict]

2013

If we're lucky...

KA

P.S. I wonder who's gonna make the 2000th post on this thread??

[sbackdoor]

Oh and another thing I'd want with Ableton as an example: LONG FADERS. Those itty bitty tiny little faders in Logic make me nervous.
(The Live faders can be extended to be twice as long)

[Prick Up UR Ears]

Originally Posted by sbackdoor

Oh and another thing I'd want with Ableton as an example: LONG FADERS. Those itty bitty tiny little faders in Logic make me nervous.

you are not serious about that, are you?

[sbackdoor]

Originally Posted by Prick Up UR Ears

you are not serious about that, are you?

Have you worked with the longer faders in Ableton? It makes a LOT more sense.

[Prick Up UR Ears]

Originally Posted by sbackdoor

Have you worked with the longer faders in Ableton? It makes a LOT more sense.

well, I never worked - and I suppose never will work - in Ableton.

Apart from that I almost never work with the faders at all just with automation data - but to each his own…

In case you want to work really comfortable utilize some sort of control surface either HW or SW (on iPad) then you can move more than one fader at the time!

But well, it won't hurt to have some way of scaling the length of the faders to make some people happy - although, precise, reproducible and reliable automation is much more important

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by sbackdoor

Oh and another thing I'd want with Ableton as an example: LONG FADERS. Those itty bitty tiny little faders in Logic make me nervous.
(The Live faders can be extended to be twice as long)

I couldn't care less about their on screen size, but if their resolution went up from 128 wouldn't hurt.......

[Prick Up UR Ears]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

I couldn't care less about their on screen size, but if their resolution went up from 128 wouldn't hurt.......

+10

[sbackdoor]

Originally Posted by Prick Up UR Ears

well, I never worked - and I suppose never will work - in Ableton.

Apart from that I almost never work with the faders at all just with automation data - but to each his own…

In case you want to work really comfortable utilize some sort of control surface either HW or SW (on iPad) then you can move more than one fader at the time!

But well, it won't hurt to have some way of scaling the length of the faders to make some people happy - although, precise, reproducible and reliable automation is much more important

Absolutely. I've had an SSL Nucleus on test that felt amazing! Little over my budget though :-)

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

I couldn't care less about their on screen size, but if their resolution went up from 128 wouldn't hurt.......

The resolution for all parameters should rais to at least 1024. Editing automation values is still nowhere near analog, because of the limited resolution, although most software do interpolate between value increases.

Best example: a veeeeery looooong filter frequency with high resolution increase of just 200-300 Hz can't be done with just the direct software parameter. The 100 Hz is maybe divided into 2 or 3 steps or less because the range from 20 - 20'000 Hz is divided into 128 steps. And that sound ugly and not very "fluid". Of course you can modulate that with a MIDI controller thru a modulation matrix. What to do if there is no modulation matrix or no slot free in the modulation matrix?

But maybe I'm just stupid and haven't found the obvious solution

[Prick Up UR Ears]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

The resolution for all parameters should raise to at least 1024. Editing automation values is still nowhere near analog, because of the limited resolution, although most software do interpolate between value increases. ...

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

But maybe I'm just stupid and haven't found the obvious solution

no, you aren't... (or I'm as stupid as you are)

[l.sicilian]

I mentioned a few things before, once more - just in case the guys at Apple / Emagic are reading...

I want / We need:

Channel Strip

• Phase switch button, with some extra phase rotation parameters would be great.
• ALL Plugins Bypass button per Channel Strip, with options to ignore VI if applicable and vice versa.
• ALL Sends Bypass button per Channel Strip.
• Positive AND Negative Delay to move tracks/regions forward or backward.
• Store-able Snapshots to recall settings for volume, pan, sends, plugins etc... per Channel Strip.
• Being able to use the above for GROUPS when applicable.
• Yes, I am aware of certain plugins...

Mixer

• ALL Plugins Bypass button, with options to ignore VI if applicable and vice versa.
• Store-able Mixer Snapshots to recall settings for volume, pan, sends, plugins etc...
• Being able to choose what is saved in the snapshot(s), selectively, as per above, so you might have a bunch of mixer snapshots that only save volumes and pans or sends... so when you recall any snapshots, it doesn't override anything that does not need to be changed.
• ALL Sends Bypass button per mixer or group(s) - as above.

MIDI

• I like the way MIDI editing works in Ableton Live, hard to explain briefly, but basically, you can comfortably move and select pretty much anything with the UP/DOWN and LEFT/RIGHT Arrows, while some extra key commands of course allow you to go even deeper. This is VERY intuitive in Ableton Live.
• Yes, I am aware of certain key commands.

Cycle / Locators aka Looping...

• SERIOUSLY, try Ableton Live (in case you haven't), it's amazing what you can do with the Left/Right arrows and key commands. VERY intuitive.
• Yes, I am aware of certain key commands, but seriously... just make it more intuitive AND ergonomic, just like Ableton Live. It's 2012 right?

Editing in general

• Let us do MORE with the UP/DOWN + RIGHT/LEFT arrows, SHIFT and TAB etc.... i.e; if I am clicking on a plugin, I want to be able to FOCUS on the plugin only and move back and forth between the parameters, and increasing/decreasing values, by 1, 10... with the ARROW KEYS, If I am moving Transient Markers, I want to move them with the ARROW Keys, same for MIDI notes etc...
• I am well aware of certain Key Commands, but the problem is when many of them are already in use, in the same "window", you're kind of stuffed, so you have to use different ones. FOCUS is the name of the game.
• Seriously, if I am editing MIDI, do I want the Arrows to change tracks? NO.
• Seriously, if I am editing Locator Length or moving Transient markers, do I want the Arrows to change tracks? NO. And the list goes on...

SERIOUS iPad INTEGRATION - MUST READ!!!

• Let us control EVERYTHING, properly, i.e, say you enter one Window at a time, so if I am editing MIDI, let me enter the MIDI Editor Window AREA ONLY with the iPad, so I can MOVE those notes, extend them etc... same goes for Control Change and what not... Have you tested some of the Apps on the App Store? Try Symphony Pro AND Music Studio (Please be kind, don't bother me with Air Display, I am aware of this one...).
• Same as above for the score Editor.
• Same as above with PLUGINS, that's right, I want to enter/access the full GUI of any plugins via the iPad, one at a time, or two or three... WAIT, WAIT - check this out; HOW about you let us access the NON GUI view of the plugins as well, via the iPad (Don't bother me again with Air Display please... when I need more air I move the mics, OR open the windows !!!)
• Make sure you also allow fine increments of parameters as well as rough via a little button or something, on the iPad, i.e: AC7 implemented this neat thing were you can move a parameter slowly while touching an area on the screen.
• It's 2012 already.
• I am aware of certain Apps in the App store thanks, that's not what I am talking about. What I am talking about doesn't exist yet.

Make Logic boot FASTER

• It's 2012 already.
• Thanks.

OK, guys, you know what, I had enough for today...

Hope you like it :P



PS: seriously, it's 2012.

PPS: I am a bit tired and lazy today, so please forgive some typo errors and what not... It wasn't intentional.

PPPS: I am sure I forgot few things, but I'd be happy with the above.

[apoclypse]

Originally Posted by l.sicilian

I mentioned a few things before, once more - just in case the guys at Apple / Emagic are reading...

I want / We need:

Channel Strip

• Phase switch button, with some extra phase rotation parameters would be great.
• ALL Plugins Bypass button per Channel Strip, with options to ignore VI if applicable and vice versa.
• ALL Sends Bypass button per Channel Strip.
• Positive AND Negative Delay to move tracks/regions forward or backward.
• Store-able Snapshots to recall settings for volume, pan, sends, plugins etc... per Channel Strip.
• Being able to use the above for GROUPS when applicable.
• Yes, I am aware of certain plugins...

.

Frankly the whole Gain utility pulgin should be part of the mixer. Sometimes I just want to change the gain of a track for gain staging without having to add a plugin. Record/Reason 6 does this and its pretty awesome to have basic eq/gain/dynamics function right on the channel. Logic doesn't have to go that far but I definitely want to see phase and gain on each channel.

[l.sicilian]

Originally Posted by apoclypse

Frankly the whole Gain utility pulgin should be part of the mixer. Sometimes I just want to change the gain of a track for gain staging without having to add a plugin. Record/Reason 6 does this and its pretty awesome to have basic eq/gain/dynamics function right on the channel. Logic doesn't have to go that far but I definitely want to see phase and gain on each channel.

Agreed, I forgot the gain, amongst other things I am sure.

[markham]

Originally Posted by apoclypse

Frankly the whole Gain utility pulgin should be part of the mixer. Sometimes I just want to change the gain of a track for gain staging without having to add a plugin. Record/Reason 6 does this and its pretty awesome to have basic eq/gain/dynamics function right on the channel. Logic doesn't have to go that far but I definitely want to see phase and gain on each channel.

Yep. Gain, phase, and better metering on each channel would be a big step forward, IMO. Better metering is really a must. It's just not that hard to accomplish, but it's so incredibly necessary to get things to sit right.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by markham

Yep. Gain, phase, and better metering on each channel would be a big step forward, IMO. Better metering is really a must. It's just not that hard to accomplish, but it's so incredibly necessary to get things to sit right.

Totally agreed!! Gain and phase now!! Gain and phase now!!

You can make the meters better colours, going from green though yellow, orange to red tops, which is much nicer to work with than the decrepid orange ones. There's a thread on here with the files to drop into the resource folder. Bing, meters with useful colours.

But really better metering would also mean, meters that happen when the actual sound happens. Not 'a bar later' as a PT-only using friend teases me......

[Mini-Dan]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Totally agreed!! Gain and phase now!! Gain and phase now!!

You can make the meters better colours, going from green though yellow, orange to red tops, which is much nicer to work with than the decrepid orange ones. There's a thread on here with the files to drop into the resource folder. Bing, meters with useful colours.

But really better metering would also mean, meters that happen when the actual sound happens. Not 'a bar later' as a PT-only using friend teases me......

+1
Something like Sonalksis Free G should be nice.

[sbackdoor]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

But really better metering would also mean, meters that happen when the actual sound happens. Not 'a bar later' as a PT-only using friend teases me......

Uhm? My Logic meters are dead on...

[deft_bonz]

Why not having an extra metering in a seperate window?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by sbackdoor

Uhm? My Logic meters are dead on...

Mine aren't a bar behind either.....lol. They've just never quite been the most responsive for a proper direct bit of feedback.

[PRPS]

A revamped ultrabeat would be nice

[mattrixx]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Mine aren't a bar behind either.....lol. They've just never quite been the most responsive for a proper direct bit of feedback.

I've never had a problem with the metering in logic. Yeah they're not broadcast capable etc. As an RME user, I count on the the Digicheck metering for the critical stuff. But within Logic, things aren't that critical in a floating point world. It's nowhere near a problem like it is with a full analog pathway within a board..... Which I love btw.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by mattrixx

I've never had a problem with the metering in logic. Yeah they're not broadcast capable etc. As an RME user, I count on the the Digicheck metering for the critical stuff. But within Logic, things aren't that critical in a floating point world. It's nowhere near a problem like it is with a full analog pathway within a board..... Which I love btw.

Agreed. But there is something to be said for any visual (or any other) feedback giving you the sense of total solidity, not 'kinda and perfectly workable'. Feels massively different and better. Which is why you like relying on the RME meters I suspect....lol