Ocean Way Drums, Drum Masters 2 -OR- SSD Ex

[krucifyx]

Originally Posted by pw2005

Get both!
Peter

RTR: I know you asked which one to pick, but if you can strech up your budget a little bit, I think it's worth a try.

I have Addictive Drums and SSD, and have used EZDrummer a couple of times. Nowadays, I mainly use AD with SSD, and joined the group buy for reasons that I'll be developping below.

My experience with SSD is that it is the best library in its category: it gives you processed sounds (still very very tweakable), that already fit perfectly in the mix, with loads of punch: very "in your face". It does sound "expensive", is maily geared for rock/alternative/punk/metal but it can do so much more. It wil put a smile on your face and your client's face very quick if they are looking for these types of sounds. Very little work to make the drums cut through. Plus, if you're also into recording drums, the replacement libraries (gog files) are VERY helpful. Not to mention the fact that you can use those samples together with any other drum sampler to replace/mix-in some of SSD's best sounds (Snares and kicks are really good). Finally, the Led Zep kit is a MUST HAVE...
On a less brighter note, the cymbals in SSD are not as nice and natural as I would like them to be. But I have to admit that it's one of the first drum sampler to offer kits that, straight out of the box, have the cymbals properly mixed (i.e. not over mixed like in most drum samplers).

Oh, and if you're planning on getting the EX version, take at least 2 exp packs (there is a 2 for 1 promo when you buy the EX I think) and try and get the exp with the modern zep... really...

Now AD. I really loved that product when it came out. It was one of the first product to sound so natural out of the box, and that "playable". Especially for a program that is so low on ressources and memory issues (very light). I love how easy it is to make it sound natural, and to play it on a keyboard. The sounds are quite good too, but then again they are not the best. The kicks and snares lack a bit of weight, and need quite a lot of work to have them sound like I want them too. The cymbals, though better than SSD IMO, are far beyond Toontrack (still IMO). But to me, AD still sounds quite natural (more than SSD, and you I esp notice it on less dense mixes) and getting a good sound of it is still faster than with Toontrack.

This is why I believe AD and SSD to be a perfect complement (I do a lot of rock/heavier stuffs). I go with SSD on denser mixes that need that "instant in your face" sound, and with AD for more quiet tracks. I often end up mixing both. And I'm pretty happy with the results.

However, I jumped into the group buy. So why? Well, first, the price... Man, 99$ for OWD and Drum Masters kits, really hard not to pull the trigger, right? But what really decided me to jump was how natural the samples were. I see them as a real upgrade over Addictive Drum that I will be mixing down (or up, depending on the projects) with SSD.

But then, if you really can't afford both, go and listen to the sounds on Steven's site, and on Dave's (Sonic Reality, esoundz... look for the player on the group buy page) and pick one. As much as I would like you to join the group buy (I started the thread and think it's such a great deal that everybody using drum samplers that do not already own DM or OWD should do it), if I were in your situation with my experience, I would get SSD with 2 exp packs. It really is a different product that compliments perfectly what you already have by giving you something different.

But... but... One thing that might make a BIG difference: the group buy is only available until the end of this month when SSD EX will still be there in a month (or two, or whenever you can save those 150$ for the EX and the exp packs). So if you're tempted at getting both but are low on cash right now, I would go with the group buy first, then SSD as soon as you have the cash.

Another option to consider is to go full Toontrack, get the upgrade to SD, and get the good expension packs. If I was a real drummer, that's prob what I would do, since some of the sounds of their exp packs are sick. But going that road would cost significantly more (Esp since I would want way more than one exp).

Hope I helped!

Best,
Sampiero

[krucifyx]

Just wanted to add something: support teams for both SSD and Sonic Reality are great. I never had to wait more than 24 hours to get my problem solved or my question answered. It's even often taken care of within the hour or next couple of hours. So either way, and whichever program you decide to pick, be sure that there is going to be a great support team backing you up and trying to make you a happier customer.

Best,
Sampiero

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by krucifyx

Just wanted to add something: support teams for both SSD and Sonic Reality are great. I never had to wait more than 24 hours to get my problem solved or my question answered. It's even often taken care of within the hour or next couple of hours. So either way, and whichever program you decide to pick, be sure that there is going to be a great support team backing you up and trying to make you a happier customer.

Best,
Sampiero

Amen Brother.

Support is everything.

[RTR]

Originally Posted by krucifyx

RTR: I know you asked which one to pick, but if you can strech up your budget a little bit, I think it's worth a try.

I have Addictive Drums and SSD, and have used EZDrummer a couple of times. Nowadays, I mainly use AD with SSD, and joined the group buy for reasons that I'll be developping below.

My experience with SSD is that it is the best library in its category: it gives you processed sounds (still very very tweakable), that already fit perfectly in the mix, with loads of punch: very "in your face". It does sound "expensive", is maily geared for rock/alternative/punk/metal but it can do so much more. It wil put a smile on your face and your client's face very quick if they are looking for these types of sounds. Very little work to make the drums cut through. Plus, if you're also into recording drums, the replacement libraries (gog files) are VERY helpful. Not to mention the fact that you can use those samples together with any other drum sampler to replace/mix-in some of SSD's best sounds (Snares and kicks are really good). Finally, the Led Zep kit is a MUST HAVE...
On a less brighter note, the cymbals in SSD are not as nice and natural as I would like them to be. But I have to admit that it's one of the first drum sampler to offer kits that, straight out of the box, have the cymbals properly mixed (i.e. not over mixed like in most drum samplers).

Oh, and if you're planning on getting the EX version, take at least 2 exp packs (there is a 2 for 1 promo when you buy the EX I think) and try and get the exp with the modern zep... really...

Now AD. I really loved that product when it came out. It was one of the first product to sound so natural out of the box, and that "playable". Especially for a program that is so low on ressources and memory issues (very light). I love how easy it is to make it sound natural, and to play it on a keyboard. The sounds are quite good too, but then again they are not the best. The kicks and snares lack a bit of weight, and need quite a lot of work to have them sound like I want them too. The cymbals, though better than SSD IMO, are far beyond Toontrack (still IMO). But to me, AD still sounds quite natural (more than SSD, and you I esp notice it on less dense mixes) and getting a good sound of it is still faster than with Toontrack.

This is why I believe AD and SSD to be a perfect complement (I do a lot of rock/heavier stuffs). I go with SSD on denser mixes that need that "instant in your face" sound, and with AD for more quiet tracks. I often end up mixing both. And I'm pretty happy with the results.

However, I jumped into the group buy. So why? Well, first, the price... Man, 99$ for OWD and Drum Masters kits, really hard not to pull the trigger, right? But what really decided me to jump was how natural the samples were. I see them as a real upgrade over Addictive Drum that I will be mixing down (or up, depending on the projects) with SSD.

But then, if you really can't afford both, go and listen to the sounds on Steven's site, and on Dave's (Sonic Reality, esoundz... look for the player on the group buy page) and pick one. As much as I would like you to join the group buy (I started the thread and think it's such a great deal that everybody using drum samplers that do not already own DM or OWD should do it), if I were in your situation with my experience, I would get SSD with 2 exp packs. It really is a different product that compliments perfectly what you already have by giving you something different.

But... but... One thing that might make a BIG difference: the group buy is only available until the end of this month when SSD EX will still be there in a month (or two, or whenever you can save those 150$ for the EX and the exp packs). So if you're tempted at getting both but are low on cash right now, I would go with the group buy first, then SSD as soon as you have the cash.

Another option to consider is to go full Toontrack, get the upgrade to SD, and get the good expension packs. If I was a real drummer, that's prob what I would do, since some of the sounds of their exp packs are sick. But going that road would cost significantly more (Esp since I would want way more than one exp).

Hope I helped!

Best,
Sampiero

Thanks for the info, very nice of you..well I have AD and ezdrummer with all of the packs..so I think you are right..I will go for the group buy since it is a limited time..and get the SSD after x-mas is over!!!

[krucifyx]

I think you're taking the good decision!

[RTR]

Originally Posted by krucifyx

I think you're taking the good decision!

Why thank you sir, you have been most helpful......

[krucifyx]

You are welcome! Now that we've reached the +300 threshold, there are even more goodies included

[papaki23]

Mixosaurus...best vst drum.Far away

[VitaEtMusica]

This is a nice group buy. My only problem with it is that SR holds out on delivering the goods of kit 11. Why does that one always get excluded. Best kit of the bunch! Oh well, go buy it a la carte. Cheap.

Gotta have em all.

[Squids]

Originally Posted by papaki23

Mixosaurus...best vst drum.Far away

I've never tried it. But it better be good if it is just one kit! Although I'm a 31 Flavors "Sample Everything" kind of guy. The hard part to me is finding all of these instruments to sample all over the world. Killing yourself over one instrument to that extent is not the same. Any sound developer could labor over one kit until it has a million samples in every direction. Not many would want to do that though so it's good at least someone did it. I don't know how practical that is but... there's something for everyone.

[Squids]

Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica

This is a nice group buy. My only problem with it is that SR holds out on delivering the goods of kit 11. Why does that one always get excluded. Best kit of the bunch! Oh well, go buy it a la carte. Cheap.

Gotta have em all.

Does it always get excluded? Hmm. Not intentional.

By the way, for any of you who are having trouble deciding on this Group Buy, Drum Masters or SSD I've got some good news for you. We're going to be carrying all the SSD products on esoundz very soon and everyone who joined/joins this group buy will get a special coupon for both full Drum Masters titles and also on the SSD titles. So you can save money if you want to get more than one.

I talked it over with Steven today and we both agree it makes sense since they're both Kontakt Player products so they can reside inside Kontakt and they sound different from each other so it is good for people that want to collect more sounds. More news on that later but I thought it might be nice to hear about it first in this thread given the topic.

[krucifyx]

Even though I already have SSD (I have the EX, but I'm only missing a couple of packs), I think it's greaaaat news. I feel that both should compliment very well (and will get the confirmation as soon as I can try DM and OWD).

[electricsky]

I'm really surprised to read this topic and see what OWD seems to have become !
At least, from a customer point of view, i have the feeling that it's beeing left in a corner of the market, untill nobody wants to buy it anymore and then they might stop selling it !!

I heard about it a few years ago but had no money to spend in it and as i wrote in another post, i regret to do not have bought the downloadable kits ; at least the ones i liked !
it's been a few days i try to get some infos about it as i'm interested in it but i hesitate to buy it as i saw Sonic Reality stopped selling it and that it is not available anymore as download.
It seems difficult to find teh Platinum version anywhere and when i phone different shops or distributors , they don't seem to really care about it !
Also, i saw it's not possible to upgrade from Gold to Platinum version anymore whereas it would sound logical seeing the price, to buy teh gold first and then upgrade to the Platinum one if i like it, especialy as the downloadable version is not available anymore to have an idea of what it sounds like in the real world !

I think it 's a pitty to see such an expensive product left abandonned like that ( at least that 's the feeling i have as a customer ) and that it seems difficult to have any infos about it to know what it is becoming precisely !
Will there be some updates ?

I would tend to think that the answer is NO ...

Do we realise we talk about a 1950 $ drum software when some cost about 300 or 400 $ !
I ' m really interested in it but i wouldn't like to pay 1950 $ for the platinum version in 96k and have no support, no update and think that nobody will ever be working on it to correct the problems !!!!!

I have already BFD2 and most of its libraries , as well as Superiror drummer 2 and several libraries, so i'm ready to pay to get some good products but i 'm not really motivated if the product already has one foot in the grave ...

Why do more and more softwares are develloped but not finished and seem to have a shorter and shorter life ?

Is it the only Drum software recorded in 96 Khz ?

I don't know Drum Masters and Epik Drums, i listened to some demos on the website but there was always some other instruments than the drums on the ones i listened to, so i couldn't hear the drums correctly !

Is it as powerful and tweakable as BFD2 ?

i think i prefer it over superior even if both have good things but i couldn't find enough good kicks in Superior drummer 2 + the 4 libraries i have although i think i should find some in the SDX evil drums i bought recently ( i had found only two kicks in music city that i liked whereas in BFD, there are many i like) .
Cymbals and hi hats are nice in Superior though and snares as well.

[electricsky]

What's the difference between Drum Masters and OWD or BFD2& Superior 2 , how does it compare,to those other softs ?

I saw it's a 3 years old topic but i would have hope somebody tells me why OWD seems to be like a " hot potatoe " everybody passes on ! lol

I asked an Audio Pro company /shop where i worked about 10 years ago in Paris /france, where it used to be the place to go to get sample CD's, & DVD's, sample libraries of any sorts (and they import Motu Products in France among other things) in Paris (and they sell audio pro hardware as well) but they didn't seem to be interested in trying to sell it (telling me to check on the web ) !
Maybe 3 years ago, i had asked them already before Sonic Reality stopped distributing it but they were not really knowing the product although they had heard about it and couldn't show a demo with it as they didn't have it in stock !
I suppose it was too expensive for many in platinum version but the Gold was already cheaper and the download version let people buy only what they wanted for even cheaper .

I stay on my first feeling that it should have been a product with more devellopment, updates ... etc
that people don't think it's already outdated or left unfinished even before it gets really known as some other Drums softwares !

[electricsky]

I listened to Drums masters and it's true that it sounds good !
The thing is that i wonder if you can have as much control on the multi channel kits as BFD2 , cause it seems there are stereo and multi channel kits but i didn't see any description yet to see precisely what are the controls.
Stereo kits are nice but i prefer multi channel ones to be able to make them sound a bit more like i want.
They sound great but if it's for using kits as is and not beeing able to tweak them, why not play a cd and sit on a chair ! lol
Joke apart, i suppose some people are looking for ready to use stereo files to use as is but personaly i don't use Loops and i prefer to be able to really get into it.
That said, i will look at it closer, the 1300 $ pack with Drum master and A ken Scott seems interesting .

[chroma]

the stereo vs. MT thing - the STm kits are multichannel, but different from the MT. MT kits are sort of 'as recorded' - you get separate (mono) channels for kick inside/outside, snare top/bottom, etc. and for example no cymbal mics since no one ever really does that, you get that from the stereo overheads. STm has no room or overhead mics, and no separate kick inside/outside for instance, you get a channel for 'kick', one for 'snare', etc. with each channel a premixed stereo combination of close mics, room, and overheads. You can still eq/comp the snare separately if you want, but you can't choose how much snare top vs. bottom for instance. you can do a lot of tweaking, mix and match kit pieces, etc. with the STm kits. You can get OWD SE (all STm kits in 48KHz but no MT kits) for <$150 these days, a great deal imho.

they're kontakt-based, so not much software to update other than the scripts. i think they sound great (both the OWD and drum masters kits) but aren't very edrum friendly. well, it sounds ok but for example variable hihat behaviour is kind of chunky. if you're on a keyboard using imap, or programming them, you can get better results.

i don't think there were many other options out there when it came out (and the others were mostly just as expensive) but nowadays there are lots of options, many for much cheaper... that's just how it goes, it's also true in many other sampling areas.

[electricsky]

Thanks for the answer.
Can you tweak the multi kits as much in Drum masters , as in BFD2 , or you just mostly mix them ?

I'm looking for a place to buy OWD Platinum Version in Europe but can't find any other than Funky Junk /Pro Audio UK.
I saw best Service.de has sells the Gold edition but there is no Platinum edition on their website !
Isn't there a way to have the Platinum version with the gold included as DVD better than installed on DVD as for the 96K.
I understand it might be diçfficult to provide the 96k version on DVD ( in another hand it would be only 10x 8Go DVD's ) but if i buy the Platinum, i would prefer to get the DVD installers of the 48k better than have it on Hard drive already installed!

And what about if the Hard drive breaks down ????
No more OWD !
1995 $ vanishing in the air ...

[electricsky]

Is the GM mapping working in OWD (gold or platinum) ?

[electricsky]

Does anybody know how much Gb are used for the Stereo kits and how much are for the multichannels kits ?
Cause i never work with loops and i really would like to be able to tweak the kits as it is possible to do for BFD2, Supêrior, OWD Platinum/Gold ... etc
So i don't really care about the stereo kits .
If most of the Datas are for the multi channels kits, then i am interested but if it's for stereo kits, then it might not be what i look for !

The ken A scott seems to be only Multi kits but i was interested in the bundle with it and the drum Master 2 as it seems to sound quite good (with a vintage vibe i like) although as i already have many BFD2 & superior drummer 2 libraries (and i will order OWD as well), i would like to be sure i will have enough multi kits datas ...
The bundle is about 1250 $ so i prefer to be sure i will be happy with it !

[Animus]

OWD failed because of the high price, lack of depth in sampling, limited cymbals, and most importantly the programming interface/gui was terrible in terms of workflow/recallbility/edibility.

[electricsky]

I read that it works better in Kontakt than in the player, is that true ?
Lack of depth in sampling ?
I'm surprised cause from what i heard, they seem to sound very good .

In another hand it might not be the sound everybody is looking at.
What i didn't like as much as the rest are the snares , as they are not exactly what i would be looking for but they are nice to have in a library when you already have some you like in some other styles.
I decided to order the Platinum as i have already many BFD2 and superiror drummer ones but i wanted to have a library in 96k and i really like the sound even if it's not what i will use all the time.It's really expensive but it's been a while i think about it.

Now, would like to know what how much of rthe Master drummer 2 datas, are for the multi kits, cause i really like the tone but i would like to be sure there are enough multi kits and not too many stereo ones ...

[gmontano]

A bunch of the Ken Scott Epik Drums kits are coming out for BFD in the few weeks.

Also agree it's a shame re: OWD. I bought OWD Gold and don't use it much. I really like the sounds, but it doesn't play great with vdrums, and like it has been said there is no support/development for it. I think they still tweak the OWD SE version a bit here and there. I believe in that case SR did the original programming and it is/was up to Ocean Way to continue development and I guess it didn't make economic sense for them to do so.

I like that SR are releasing their kits in BFD. It seems like outside of NI themselves (Studio Drummer, Abbey Road Drummer) and maybe mixasourus (haven't tried that) no one really has been able to get drums just right in Kontakt. Even Slate abandoned Kontakt with SSD 4.0.

[electricsky]

I haven't tried studio drummer nor abbey road drums but battery 1 & 2 were not sounding good nor artist drums !
I wonder if OWD plays better in Kontakt 4 or 5 than in the player ?

Isn't the GM mapping working with OWD ?

on their website it's specified as working with GM IMAP, GM and Vdrums or so , is the GM mapping working correctly ?

i read it seems to be slow to load the kits, that we have to save instruments separatly,
that the GM IMAP is not really easy to use but apart from that , it seems to sound very good (especialy if you have some other libraries to do the other types of sounds you can't have with OWD ) and is in 96k for the platinum.
The 96k is one of the reason i ordered it , so i would have at least one drum lib to work at 96k zand not have to convert the files in real time .
It can be interesting for quite important music sessions , so it doesn't load the processor and there is no risk to degrade the tone converting in real time if you already ask much power to the processors !

[gmontano]

using kontakt 4 or 5 you can convert the OWD multis (originally done in Kontakt 2 I believe) and you will see dramatic load time improvement. Maybe 5 times as fast. It is a big difference.

[electricsky]

Do you mean i can load the multi kits and save them in Kontakt 4 or 5 format , so they would open much faster ( ?

If that's what you mean, that's a good point !
I just begun using it but as soon as i opened the box i had to deal with a problem ! lol
I bought the Platinum version new here in France, from the French distributor, Illio sent me to ,when i phoned them in USA; the problem is that i was delivered a US model power supply !
Not a big deal in itself as the PS is 110-240v capable but the connector needs an adapter and when you don't have one ...
When you buy a 2000 $ drum library software , when you know most people use them for free with cracked versions, you really expect to be able to work as soon as you receive the product and not have top bother with any problem !
So, i went to the nearest drugstore to buy an adapter and asked the French distributor to send me a French PS ...

Once that problem partly resolved ( i know i could power the HD from the FW bus but i really prefer it to use its own power supply), i mounted the drive and look for teh Platinum and Gold versions but only found a platinum and an " Expandable " version ( what is the version that is / was sold for people buying / downloading the kits from the web ), what i suppose, is the Gold version ( it is 49 GB and teh platinum 91 Gb or so ).
I don't know why but when i saw that " Expandable " version, i thought i would have a problem with it and that's what happened ... lol

Impossible to activate the Expandable version !
I could enter both the PLatinum and Gold / Expandable serial numbers in the NI Service Center soft, it seemed authorized and activated but when i open the Kontakt player ( 4 or 5 ) , i have a massage saying :
Ocean Way Drums Expandable can not be activated. Please install the files with the original installer " or so .
But i have no original installer as the Platinum version is delivered on a Hard Drive , with the Gold / Expandable version as well, both already installed on the drive !

I emailed in different places but had no answer yet (NI , Sonic Reality, Illio), so i can't use the Gold version !
It's really frustrating to have to loose some time to deal with that when you pay 2000 $ (for a drum lib software ) !
For that price, i think they should provide some DVD installers for both the Platinum and Gold versions ( on top of the hard drive) !
First, if something happens , then we can re-install and maybe i would not have had some problem to authorize the Expandable as it works for the PLatinum.

[electricsky]

That said, i loaded the kits with Kontakt 4 & 5 players ( but they had not been saved in K4 or K5 format before so i suppose they were in K2 format , the stock one) and even if it takes some time (it was the 96k version), it's not that long unless you really are in a hurry ( like on some post prod projects i guess).
The sound is good but i could not find the same sound as the demo presets on their website, loading teh corresponding programs !!
I just had the time to load quickly two or there programs but the sound was noticeably different !
i will check that ...

The OWD snares sound much better in reality than in the demos loaded on their website but the kick presets sound quite different as well from teh demos and for the moment i could not get them to sound the same (they are processed in the demos but we don't know if it's with Kontakt plugs or Outboard gears but OWD sounds good anyway) !

[electricsky]

I emailed Illio on saturday , to tell them i can 't authorise nor activate the Ocean Way Druls Gold / expandable version i was delivered with the platinum but still no answer !!!!
I can't believe they can't answer faster to help me for i can start to use the dum lib i just paid 2000 $ !!
It's easy to buy everything when you have th emoney, even the companies or different products some other people have sweat so much to build but it's another story to be able to do the job correctly !
Money can't buy everything , especialy the love of a well done job !

When you email Sonic Reality, they answer usualy within 12 hours , (not on Sunday) and even on Saturday , even when you haven't bought anything from them ! Great support service ; nothing to say except good things !
When you email Illio, whereas you bougth a 2000 $ drum software from them, you get no answer still 3 days later , so you can't start to work correctly ... Cool !!

[chroma]

i think you need to install the oceanway player, if you haven't already. And then use NI service center to activate them. ?

[electricsky]

I received an answer from Illio, to tell me they will take care of the power supply problem but they havent' been able to tell me anything to resolve my OWD Gold/ expandable version activation !
They told me to contact Native Servie center what i did on Saturday but they didn't answer yet.
Anyway, the NI Servie center software seems to be activated as i entered both the Platinum and Gold /expandable serial numbers and they are specified as authorized but when i open the Kontakt player 4 or 5 in Logic 9 or in stand alone mode, i get that message :
"Ocean Way Drums can not be activated. Please, run the original installer of the library " !
The only installer i have on the OWD druive is the Kontakt player , so i tried to install it after i had installed Kontakt player 4 and 5 (and tried to activate the expandable version through both but i get the same message) but i still have the same problem !

I hate those Authorizations / installations problems !
When you have two or three softwares that have this type of problem, then you can deal with it but when you buy many softwares for a recording studio and you loose some time like that with a third of them, you get crazy !

I don't even want to count the lost hours spent on the phone, writing emails or sending back something at the post office (and have to pay to ship back when you're not responsible for the problem ) because the seller made a mistake ...
Obviously , the software problems are not the only thing you have to deal with in a recording studio and that's much time in the end, trying to resolve some problems that should not happen, instead of working on something else and who pays for all that in the end ...
I'm fed up with all this kind of bullshit (not just with software problems !) ! lol

[electricsky]

NI Service center did reset their soft but it still doesn't work, i'm fed up with that ; that 's good start ! lol
BFD2 & Superior 2 are much easier to authorize and install ...

I understand why people use cracks, it 's free and it works ! lol