Building a new DAW for Cubase 5. Help needed

[Marando]

Originally Posted by road2music

hi there gearheads,

i am msm07's friend who will be helping him with the pc project.

we have put a list together of some components that we have chosen so far but still deciding on a exact i7 processor.

list includes:

-Motherboard - Ga-ex58-ud5
-Antec P183 Case - GunMetal Grey Super Mid Tower
-Ocz OCZ3G13334GK 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR3 1333MHz/PC3-10666 Gold Dual Channel CL 9-9-9-26
-650W Silverpower By Seasonic SP-SS650 Power Supply OR the corsair PSU that was mentioned above.
-Noctua NH-U9B CPU heatpipe heatsink with NF-B9 fan

-2x samsung f3 drives
-Current Graphics cards

processor - ??? :(

what do you guys think? [..]

Looks good to me, but if you have the money, I would suggest different memory, as DDR 1333mhz with CL 9 is pretty low speed to be honnest! I would suggest 1600mhz CL7. The Ga-ex58-ud5 is nice, but the Ga-ex58-ud3r I think can also do the job.. here in Holland the price difference is 20% in favour for the ud3r, so I would pick that one.

Seasonic makes fantastic powersupplies, so you are not going to be making a mistake buying that one, but it's not a match against the Corsair Hx-650. The Seasonic has 4x 12V Lines with 18A each, where the Corsair has a single 12V with a massive 52A. It’s very unlikely you are going to need those 52A, but it is possible that you get above 18A on a single 12V line, so that makes the single 12V a more stable solution.

[psycho_monkey]

hey all - thanks for the heads up r3al....

To be honest, the PC-building side of things isn't really my field of expertise, but what I would say is limiting your motherboard options because you've got to incorporate old hardware (UAD1) is a bit pointless. I'd upgrade this now - makes sense in the long run.

Maybe ditto with the soundcard...do they not offer an upgrade path? I don't know, just suggesting.

[msm07]

Hey Mark, haven't been on msn lately so it's been a while. Hope all is good.

Psycho - I plan on upgrading the Uad 1 and the Delta but not for now, they both do what I need at the moment. I'd upgrade the Delta over the Uad though.... Hmm you've got me thinking about a new soundcard

[Marando]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

hey all - thanks for the heads up r3al....

To be honest, the PC-building side of things isn't really my field of expertise, but what I would say is limiting your motherboard options because you've got to incorporate old hardware (UAD1) is a bit pointless. I'd upgrade this now - makes sense in the long run.

Maybe ditto with the soundcard...do they not offer an upgrade path? I don't know, just suggesting.

hmmm, not a bad advice indeed!

[msm07]

Putting the UAD aside cos that's easy, what would I upgrade my Delta 1010 to? I was thinking of it already as I have had two of these, one ended up crackling like crazy and second ones started showing symptoms.

I don't really like the thought of the added 6ms (I think) latency for FireWire, and don't have much confidence in USB audio in general. Am I really limiting myself with this way of thinking?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by msm07

Putting the UAD aside cos that's easy, what would I upgrade my Delta 1010 to? I was thinking of it already as I have had two of these, one ended up crackling like crazy and second ones started showing symptoms.

I don't really like the thought of the added 6ms (I think) latency for FireWire, and don't have much confidence in USB audio in general. Am I really limiting myself with this way of thinking?

Latency is down to the driver, not the buss. I've never had any problems with my 002 FW, and I've done lots of tracking (vocals, guitar through to full band) with it.

I gues RME or Lynx are PCIe options though.

[PhonoquO]

Originally Posted by msm07

Putting the UAD aside cos that's easy, what would I upgrade my Delta 1010 to? I was thinking of it already as I have had two of these, one ended up crackling like crazy and second ones started showing symptoms.

I don't really like the thought of the added 6ms (I think) latency for FireWire, and don't have much confidence in USB audio in general. Am I really limiting myself with this way of thinking?

MsM, take a look at the Echo Layla 3g, Echo Digital Audio Corporation
Great value for the money really, and solidly built with great drivers. The converters would be better than your delta.

[R3altruth]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Latency is down to the driver, not the buss. I've never had any problems with my 002 FW, and I've done lots of tracking (vocals, guitar through to full band) with it.

I gues RME or Lynx are PCIe options though.

I like RME... or for a little less money the Emu 1616m PCIe

Only reason I keep a mobo with 2 PCI slots is for my Emu 1820 m that I can't bring myself to let go...

[msm07]

If I was to eliminate the PCI side of things ie replace my UAD1 and Delta.....what motherboards would benefit me more and why?

Performance wise i'm happy with the Deltas, i've just had a few odd crackles here and there, and when I wanted support there replies and help left me a bit cheesed off.


So far i'm looking at...

Windows Xp 32bit (for now) Possibly Windows 7

Case - Antec P183

MOBO - GigaByte Ga-ex58-ud5

PSU - Corsair hx650

Processor - I7 920

Memory - Ocz OCZ3G13334GK 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR3 1333MHz/PC3-10666 Gold Dual Channel CL 9-9-9-26

HDD - 2 Samsung F3

GPU - My 2x Radeon HD4650's

Cooling - Noctua NH-U9B CPU heatpipe heatsink with NF-B9 fan

[R3altruth]

Originally Posted by msm07

If I was to eliminate the PCI side of things ie replace my UAD1 and Delta.....what motherboards would benefit me more and why?

Performance wise i'm happy with the Deltas, i've just had a few odd crackles here and there, and when I wanted support there replies and help left me a bit cheesed off.


So far i'm looking at...

Windows Xp 32bit (for now) Possibly Windows 7

Case - Antec P183

MOBO - GigaByte Ga-ex58-ud5

PSU - Corsair hx650

Processor - I7 920

Memory - Ocz OCZ3G13334GK 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR3 1333MHz/PC3-10666 Gold Dual Channel CL 9-9-9-26

HDD - 2 Samsung F3

GPU - My 2x Radeon HD4650's

Cooling - Noctua NH-U9B CPU heatpipe heatsink with NF-B9 fan

Honestly that works even if you aren't using a PCI legacy interface.... I like keeping a few PCI slots around Just in case

[mini1alex]

Originally Posted by Marando

Looks good to me, but if you have the money, I would suggest different memory, as DDR 1333mhz with CL 9 is pretty low speed to be honnest! I would suggest 1600mhz CL7. The Ga-ex58-ud5 is nice, but the Ga-ex58-ud3r I think can also do the job.. here in Holland the price difference is 20% in favour for the ud3r, so I would pick that one.

Seasonic makes fantastic powersupplies, so you are not going to be making a mistake buying that one, but it's not a match against the Corsair Hx-650. The Seasonic has 4x 12V Lines with 18A each, where the Corsair has a single 12V with a massive 52A. It’s very unlikely you are going to need those 52A, but it is possible that you get above 18A on a single 12V line, so that makes the single 12V a more stable solution.

hi marando. what RAM would you recommend thats 1600mhz CL7? preferably a kit of 2 x 2gb's = 4gb total.
i think we are going for the Ud5 mobo now so it will obviously have to be compatible with that.
the only reason i chose the Ocz OCZ3G13334GK 4GB Kit was because i replicated the synergy system on dv247.com so i used the same RAM.

if you have any advise on what RAM to push us to get for the project it would be much appreciated as the faster the better even if it costs more

regards
Alex

[R3altruth]

Originally Posted by road2music

hi marando. what RAM would you recommend thats 1600mhz CL7? preferably a kit of 2 x 2gb's = 4gb total.
i think we are going for the Ud5 mobo now so it will obviously have to be compatible with that.
the only reason i chose the Ocz OCZ3G13334GK 4GB Kit was because i replicated the synergy system on dv247.com so i used the same RAM.

if you have any advise on what RAM to push us to get for the project it would be much appreciated as the faster the better even if it costs more

regards
Alex

here is the stuff
Newegg.com - OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model OCZ3P1600LV4GK - Desktop Memory

out of stock until next week... but some damn good RAM... made specifically for p55 and x58 chips... tight timings.... Low voltage....

[Wiseg]

sorry to but in, but i have the same motherboard and the ram choice is all wrong (incompatible) with the higher end chips >> i7 you need to fit in triple channel memory which blow everything else out of the water, the i5's and lower do dual channel.

i know people mean well yet they should know what they are talking about before writing anything in forums.

i tend to take a 50/50 approach on any forum, listen but never go by one persons word as alot of people talk for the sake of it.

please guys do proper research and dont try and build the same things you see sold as audio pc's as there just bundled together with no expertease at all.

i gather the op is interested in the mr816, there should be windows 7 drivers for the mr816 (im waiting on the same drivers for my n12).

currently the drivers are unstable in win 7 64bit environment so it is worth a 2 week wait for the new drivers, watch the posts at the SB forums.

Lastly if you have the cash , consider buying a fast ssd drive just for the operating system and watch the sheer speed.

i wish you all the best if you guys have any further question or need any of my assistance pm me.

cheers

[R3altruth]

Originally Posted by Wiseg

sorry to but in, but i have the same motherboard and the ram choice is all wrong (incompatible) with the higher end chips >> i7 you need to fit in triple channel memory which blow everything else out of the water, the i5's and lower do dual channel.

i know people mean well yet they should know what they are talking about before writing anything in forums.

i tend to take a 50/50 approach on any forum, listen but never go by one persons word as alot of people talk for the sake of it.

please guys do proper research and dont try and build the same things you see sold as audio pc's as there just bundled together with no expertease at all.

i gather the op is interested in the mr816, there should be windows 7 drivers for the mr816 (im waiting on the same drivers for my n12).

currently the drivers are unstable in win 7 64bit environment so it is worth a 2 week wait for the new drivers, watch the posts at the SB forums.

Lastly if you have the cash , consider buying a fast ssd drive just for the operating system and watch the sheer speed.

i wish you all the best if you guys have any further question or need any of my assistance pm me.

cheers

crap... you're right.... I was thinking ********.... I completely brainfarted and was thinking 1156.....
Go for a 3 x 1gb kit....
Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 3GB (3 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 998676 - Desktop Memory
or
Newegg.com - OCZ XMP Ready Series 3GB (3 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3X1600LV3GK - Desktop Memory
Good catch WiseG... I was doing like 8 posts at once... watching TV and working on a song....

as far as SSD...... thats a big NO though... not yet at least

[mini1alex]

Originally Posted by R3altruth

crap... you're right.... I was thinking ********.... I completely brainfarted and was thinking 1156.....
Go for a 3 x 1gb kit....
Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 3GB (3 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 998676 - Desktop Memory
or
Newegg.com - OCZ XMP Ready Series 3GB (3 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3X1600LV3GK - Desktop Memory
Good catch WiseG... I was doing like 8 posts at once... watching TV and working on a song....

as far as SSD...... thats a big NO though... not yet at least

cheers,
i think we are going to go with this kit for RAM http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/870019...5%7Ccat:Memory the one you said.

so the complete spec of the pc is:

-Motherboard Atx Lga1366 Intel X58 + Ich10r 6x 3 Channel Ddr3 24gb - Ga-ex58-ud5
-Antec P183 Case - GunMetal Grey Super Mid Tower
-Noctua NH-U9B CPU heatpipe heatsink with NF-B9 fan
-2x samsung f3 drives
1tb + 500gb
-Corsair 650hx
-I7 920

-OCZ3X1600LV3GK

-Current Graphics cards

(and run XP for now as msm07 wants that adm)

how does that sound guys

[R3altruth]

Sounds good.. happy building

[captain caveman]

Originally Posted by Wiseg

sorry to but in, but i have the same motherboard and the ram choice is all wrong (incompatible) with the higher end chips >> i7 you need to fit in triple channel memory which blow everything else out of the water, the i5's and lower do dual channel.

i know people mean well yet they should know what they are talking about before writing anything in forums.

i tend to take a 50/50 approach on any forum, listen but never go by one persons word as alot of people talk for the sake of it.

please guys do proper research and dont try and build the same things you see sold as audio pc's as there just bundled together with no expertease at all.

i gather the op is interested in the mr816, there should be windows 7 drivers for the mr816 (im waiting on the same drivers for my n12).

currently the drivers are unstable in win 7 64bit environment so it is worth a 2 week wait for the new drivers, watch the posts at the SB forums.

Lastly if you have the cash , consider buying a fast ssd drive just for the operating system and watch the sheer speed.

i wish you all the best if you guys have any further question or need any of my assistance pm me.

cheers

Wow, you know about DDR3 and that solid state is fast. I think that is at the very bottom of the pile of things that the guys that test and build full time know. What about an i7 MB that would work well at low latency with UAD 1 and 2, and a PCI soundcard? Pray tell soothsayer.

[Wiseg]

Originally Posted by captain caveman

Wow, you know about DDR3 and that solid state is fast. I think that is at the very bottom of the pile of things that the guys that test and build full time know. What about an i7 MB that would work well at low latency with UAD 1 and 2, and a PCI soundcard? Pray tell soothsayer.

that supposed to be a insult?

the guy would of went and bought dual channel ddr ram for a i7 mb,

low latancy depends on the cpu power and the interface used (soundcard) and its drivers thats it plain and simple.

fast cpu good soundcard shit drivers - shit latency
fast cpu bad soundcard good drivers - good latency (low)
fast cpu good soundcard great drivers - latency you will not even notice.

heres a screen shot of what im getting at the moment with my custom built pc.



no other factors play a part of this.

latency what latency when you have a power house of a computer.

also regarding the uad's to tell you the truth, there a waste of time and you can get better full software alternatives, as your i7 could cope with so much more strain then those uad's.

you will be able to take a cpu peaking project and on the i7 it will result 20-25% max strain on cpu.

the time for add on dsp cards to help cut down cpu strain is over, sell them while there worth anything or be forced to see the price slump.
read here UA Plugins , possibly native ? on the future of uad.

also there too much head ache with irq clash's and things sharing the same irq number will result in serious head ache, sell them quick .

[R3altruth]

Ok... Its not a battle... we all want to be helpful... and everyone knows that Forum advice is followed at their own risk... with that being said, Yes, I7's use triple channel RAM
But Wiseg, I'm actually surprised your board was completely incompatible with dual channel RAM... I would have assumed you would have just had performance issues and such... I would think maybe you had wonky RAM or voltage issues... who knows...
Either way, your post was helpful (Although your tone was slightly off putting) and your point was noted... As far as your latency... you don't have to prove yourself to anyone. You gave good advice, I think that speaks for itself... I for one, am not questioning your expertise
Lastly, You've got a good build there... Which SSD are you using? It's still just over expensive right now... 60gb OCZ SLC drive is like 600 bucks.... You could short stroke a 300gb V-raptor for less than half of that.
Also, FWIW, for the best Latency and most solid drivers I perfer PCI or PCIe interfaces....

[Wiseg]

Originally Posted by R3altruth

Ok... Its not a battle... we all want to be helpful... and everyone knows that Forum advice is followed at their own risk... with that being said, Yes, I7's use triple channel RAM
But Wiseg, I'm actually surprised your board was completely incompatible with dual channel RAM... I would have assumed you would have just had performance issues and such... I would think maybe you had wonky RAM or voltage issues... who knows...
Either way, your post was helpful (Although your tone was slightly off putting) and your point was noted... As far as your latency... you don't have to prove yourself to anyone. You gave good advice, I think that speaks for itself... I for one, am not questioning your expertise
Lastly, You've got a good build there... Which SSD are you using? It's still just over expensive right now... 60gb OCZ SLC drive is like 600 bucks.... You could short stroke a 300gb V-raptor for less than half of that.
Also, FWIW, for the best Latency and most solid drivers I perfer PCI or PCIe interfaces....

sorry to have come off harsh or rude, i just wanted to advise the guy on the correct info, its to do with the i7 architeture, things work a little differntly, each of the 4 cores has 2 threads, its just a power house.

i came from amd dual core to a q6600 and now the i7 and it eats anything i can throw at it.

regarding the ssd's i understand there exspenive but after a good cpu and ram the only majour speed performance differnce worthwhile would be a ssd roughly at the moment twice the speed of the raptors no moving parts no noise no heat.

60 gig may seem like a little amount but its enough for windows , your chosen daw, plugins and vst's, while sound banks and the big libraries should sit on another harddrive until ssd'd have become more main stream and the prices have been driven down.

im using ocz vertex turbo,

regarding the pci vs firewire vs usb.

with what im using it suits me better to use a firewire device no irq conflicts to stress about, and the routing options are unlimited.
not saying that it cant be done with pci devices but i had alot of problems with older soundcards i have had and the last delta 1010a my friend had was a knightmare.

regarding drivers, i know for sure if i didnt get the unit i have, i would of bought a rme fireface400, as the drivers are rock solid.

currently im waiting on drivers for win7 for my device as theres a few issues but will soon be resolved.

[R3altruth]

Originally Posted by Wiseg

sorry to have come off harsh or rude, i just wanted to advise the guy on the correct info, its to do with the i7 architeture, things work a little differntly, each of the 4 cores has 2 threads, its just a power house.

i came from amd dual core to a q6600 and now the i7 and it eats anything i can throw at it.

regarding the ssd's i understand there exspenive but after a good cpu and ram the only majour speed performance differnce worthwhile would be a ssd roughly at the moment twice the speed of the raptors no moving parts no noise no heat.

60 gig may seem like a little amount but its enough for windows , your chosen daw, plugins and vst's, while sound banks and the big libraries should sit on another harddrive until ssd'd have become more main stream and the prices have been driven down.

im using ocz vertex turbo,

regarding the pci vs firewire vs usb.

with what im using it suits me better to use a firewire device no irq conflicts to stress about, and the routing options are unlimited.
not saying that it cant be done with pci devices but i had alot of problems with older soundcards i have had and the last delta 1010a my friend had was a knightmare.

regarding drivers, i know for sure if i didnt get the unit i have, i would of bought a rme fireface400, as the drivers are rock solid.

currently im waiting on drivers for win7 for my device as theres a few issues but will soon be resolved.

Yea... the MLC SSD drives are a bit cheaper.... but how have they held up? how long have you had them? I was always told they had much shorter lifespans than the more expensive MLC and weren't as fast?

Gotta agree though... I LOVE RME.. I use an E-mu 1820m now and I'm very happy... but If I was too upgrade it would only be to an RME PCIe Raydat system with all apogee or Lynx converters
I like the FIreface ALOT though... one of my favorite Firewire interfaces...
I honestly never really got into the M-audio PCI interfaces.... I always thought E-mu made similar products with better drivers on average
I won a free M-audio USB MobilePre once... used it for 1 day and gave it away to a kid down the street who was trying to learn music production

[msm07]

looks like i got some reading to do. more confused than ever now

[R3altruth]

Originally Posted by msm07

looks like i got some reading to do. more confused than ever now

Honestly... stick with the most recent post about your build (Post #45) and you'll be great

[ManOnAMission]

I just upgraded my machine for 350. Used the same case and DVD writer.

The AMD "Calisto" 550 black edition, unlocks to 4 cores and can typically be OCed to 3.8G. Blazing fast for $100.

I setn back the asus mobo for this Gigabyte that is much better. Much quieter, better ports, better gpu.
Item List:

1 x ($114.99) MB GIGABYTE|GA-MA790GPT-UD3H RT - Retail

$114.99

Item List:
Item Number: Item Description: Quantity: Price: N82E16813131398 MB ASUS|M4A785TD-V EVO 785G RT 1 99.99 N82E16822152100 HD 750G|SAMG 7K 32M SATA2 HD753LJ % 1 64.99 N82E16819103680 CPU AMD|PH II X2 550 AM3 3.1G RT 1 102.00 N82E16820227495 MEM 2Gx2|OCZ OCZ3OB1600LV4GK RT 1 83.99

[captain caveman]

Originally Posted by Wiseg

that supposed to be a insult?
...........
heres a screen shot of what im getting at the moment with my custom built pc.



no other factors play a part of this.

latency what latency when you have a power house of a computer.

All I am saying is that you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about, that the ickle latency display you have there means absolutely nothing in real terms and that nobody should take anything you say seriously.

Apologies for any misunderstanding. Remember of course that you said this....

please guys do proper research and dont try and build the same things you see sold as audio pc's as there just bundled together with no expertease at all.

.... which sounds suspiciously like something AllenCollins would say. I see you joined a couple of months ago.... hmmmm.

On the same old vendetta Allen?

[Marando]

Originally Posted by Wiseg

[..]i know people mean well yet they should know what they are talking about before writing anything in forums. [..]

Read all my posts, and you know I have talked about this before! I clearly stated that I advice 3x 1GB or 2GB DDR3 1600mhz CL7 for a X58 mainboard, and 2x 2GB DDR3 1600mhz CL7 if he decided to take a P55 mainboard.

Peace

[msm07]

-Motherboard Atx Lga1366 Intel X58 + Ich10r 6x 3 Channel Ddr3 24gb - Ga-ex58-ud5

-Antec P183 Case - GunMetal Grey Super Mid Tower

-Noctua NH-U9B CPU heatpipe heatsink with NF-B9 fan

-2x samsung f3 drives 1tb + 500gb

-Corsair 650hx

-I7 920

I'm lost with the Ram.....

[Chris_Blackler]

Wow this is a really helpful forum, just registered because of this thread. I am in the exact same situation so il be intrested to see the outcome.

Good work

[Chris_Blackler]

Hows the progress??

[Villium]

Talking here about Firewire 400 - I have xp-SP3 And did the Firewire fix from microsoft page. But is there any way to test a Firewire pci card to make sure im getting 400mbps? Ive hunted the net but not found anything yet.


This is a great forum and lots of great help!

Villium stike