pro tools vs logic midi accuracy

elan · 8th November 2009

people says midi is better in logic, but today i've opened a logic session with a drum made with BFD, sequenced with a mpc 2500. so i have recorded the midi track from the mpc in a logic midi track.

i've opened logic midi track and zoomed it at max, than i selected the first midi note and go on clicking the right arrow of the keyboard to see if every midi notes were on the beat.

and logic says that all (except say 10 in all the track, so really few) were exactly over the beat.

than i've imported the midi track in pro tools and i've done the same.

i've done that just to make a test and see if the clock in logic is the same in pro tools.

the clock seems the same because i haven't all the notes shifted of a fix amount (say 30 ms) in one direction, but pro tools makes me see that there are much more notes not exactly over the beat, while in logic most of them (almost all) were exactly over the beat.

so, i think isn't a difference in logic vs pro tools metronome, but i think there's a difference in accuracy.

i've already noticed this about audio editing, the waveform is much more precise in pro tools, and you discover little but even big differences sometimes.. but now i've noticed that even with midi.

so pro tools is much more accurate than logic!!

i'm using logic 9 and pro tools 8.0.1

tamasdragon · 8th November 2009

I always felt that editing is much more precise in pro tools. But to be honest, I did not found this discrepancy in logic, although never purposely tested this. I'll try to make some tests in the near future, so thanks for the heads up.
It would be very good if you can post a test session, so others can check it out and confirm or not confirm your findings.
Tamas Dragon

elan · 8th November 2009

well i can post the midi file when i'll go in studio

to see the difference you have to zoom at max or almost

some one are more evident other are really minimal.

if you have logic you can import the midi in logic than in pro tools and see the difference

synthoid · 8th November 2009

I don't understand why you drew the conclusion you drew from this experiment.

The real question is which one is closer to the original MPC timing. If the data coming out of the MPC was quantized, then the Logic picture of it is more accurate.

One explanation for the discrepancy could be that during the export/import operating, some incorrect or sloppy division was done, resulting in note timing that was sloppy once you examined in in PT. This sometimes happens if MIDI-clock-relative data is changed to timecode-relative data. A MIDI file can represent things in either way, but converting between them often gives roundoff errors.

I've done lots of MIDI timing tests with Logic and have found it to be right smack on the money, since version 7.2 or so. With a good MIDI interface I get about 1ms of jitter in recorded MIDI data, which is good even by the standards of MPCs (I have an MPC4000 also).

-synthoid

valis · 9th November 2009

I agree, the options you have set in Logic for how audio & midi are timestamped will affect the data as it is 'seen' in Logic, and how it is exported (including what options affect what on export.) Ie, there's a lot of variables unaccounted for in your 'test' and figuring those out might help you hone in on what you're seeing so to speak.

8th November 2009	#1
elan Lives for gear Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,775 Thread Starter	pro tools vs logic midi accuracy people says midi is better in logic, but today i've opened a logic session with a drum made with BFD, sequenced with a mpc 2500. so i have recorded the midi track from the mpc in a logic midi track. i've opened logic midi track and zoomed it at max, than i selected the first midi note and go on clicking the right arrow of the keyboard to see if every midi notes were on the beat. and logic says that all (except say 10 in all the track, so really few) were exactly over the beat. than i've imported the midi track in pro tools and i've done the same. i've done that just to make a test and see if the clock in logic is the same in pro tools. the clock seems the same because i haven't all the notes shifted of a fix amount (say 30 ms) in one direction, but pro tools makes me see that there are much more notes not exactly over the beat, while in logic most of them (almost all) were exactly over the beat. so, i think isn't a difference in logic vs pro tools metronome, but i think there's a difference in accuracy. i've already noticed this about audio editing, the waveform is much more precise in pro tools, and you discover little but even big differences sometimes.. but now i've noticed that even with midi. so pro tools is much more accurate than logic!! i'm using logic 9 and pro tools 8.0.1 __________________ Honest communication is always unique and original. (bob olhsson) I think the growing availability of presets in synths started to make musicians lazy: they were so amazed at what they could use, they stopped thinking if they should. André (andychamp) "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep" --Scott Adams

8th November 2009	#2
tamasdragon Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 1,472	I always felt that editing is much more precise in pro tools. But to be honest, I did not found this discrepancy in logic, although never purposely tested this. I'll try to make some tests in the near future, so thanks for the heads up. It would be very good if you can post a test session, so others can check it out and confirm or not confirm your findings. Tamas Dragon __________________ tamasdragon.com Last edited by tamasdragon; 8th November 2009 at 02:09 PM.. Reason: typo

8th November 2009	#4
synthoid Lives for gear Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,659	I don't understand why you drew the conclusion you drew from this experiment. The real question is which one is closer to the original MPC timing. If the data coming out of the MPC was quantized, then the Logic picture of it is more accurate. One explanation for the discrepancy could be that during the export/import operating, some incorrect or sloppy division was done, resulting in note timing that was sloppy once you examined in in PT. This sometimes happens if MIDI-clock-relative data is changed to timecode-relative data. A MIDI file can represent things in either way, but converting between them often gives roundoff errors. I've done lots of MIDI timing tests with Logic and have found it to be right smack on the money, since version 7.2 or so. With a good MIDI interface I get about 1ms of jitter in recorded MIDI data, which is good even by the standards of MPCs (I have an MPC4000 also). -synthoid __________________ jomomusic.com

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9th November 2009	#5
valis Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northwest USA Posts: 2,645	I agree, the options you have set in Logic for how audio & midi are timestamped will affect the data as it is 'seen' in Logic, and how it is exported (including what options affect what on export.) Ie, there's a lot of variables unaccounted for in your 'test' and figuring those out might help you hone in on what you're seeing so to speak.