Logic swing like an MPC

[Lagerfeldt]

This is a very nice MPC quantize groove (Groove Template) you can use to get Logic to swing like an MPC - well sort of I guess.

No matter what it sounds very nice.

I've made a quick crap beat to hear the differences between Logic 16A, Logic 16B and MPC 50% quantize.

http://www.onlinemastering.dk/upload/mpctest.zip

The grooves can be downloaded here:

http://www.kenlamison.com/mpcgrooves.LSO

Open the LSO song and copy the folder (via command+c) into your autoload onto a No Output track. Select the folder and go to Options->Make Groove Template. That's it, now you can use the MPC grooves to quantize in Logic.

[adzski]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

That's it, now you can use the MPC grooves to quantize in Logic.

err......no you cant really. It still doesnt groove like an MPC. Part of the magic just doesnt translate.

[AnalogBob]

If you know how to use logic and are creative you can get things to swing like an mpc.... I don't buy that the mpc is the king of swing....I think people just understand how to use it well...

[Fredrik]

I think it´s great that there is an option to expand the groove templates available in Logic. If you look at these tracks in the list editor you´ll find that its different from Logics own swing. The way I see it is that it´s good to have moore way than one to apply swing in logic regardless of the accuracy of the original.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by adzski

err......no you cant really. It still doesnt groove like an MPC. Part of the magic just doesnt translate.

Wow, who pissed on your food this morning.? As I already said.. "sort of". Anyway, if you actually checked out the sound files I made you'd notice a remarkable difference.

[adzski]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Wow, who pissed on your food this morning.? As I already said.. "sort of". Anyway, if you actually checked out the sound files I made you'd notice a remarkable difference.

Ok - i didnt actually check out the files last night but i did this morning. Its kind of what i expected to be honest. I've used groove templates since Creator/Notator days, and they can be really useful. I've got mpc, 1200, hr16, drumulator, yamaha etc etc templates that i use when programming in Logic. I missed the "sort of" in your post - groove templates are cool, but they dont paint the whole picture, thats all i was saying. Sometimes its the air at the front of a sample, sometimes its just the sound of the machine.

Cheers!

[shangoe]

i like it...great!

[shangoe]

i tested it a litle bit more today...realy good. can you say something about how you made that template?

[JulianBrightnes]

Originally Posted by adzski

Sometimes its the air at the front of a sample

I dont' get that, what if you load the same samples into a soft-sampler hosted by logic?
Anyways what 'air' are you talking about.
I don't see any logical explanation why Logic or Protools with MPC-groove (start flaming midi-lovers)
couldn't swing like an MPC.
I actually loaded midi files created by an MPC into Logic and the guy who programmed 'm
could not tell the difference.
My explanation: you just program differently using an MPC.

Cheers, Julian

[Dr.Wu]

Another great source for groove templates are the midifiles that come with Stylus RMX.
I use them all the time to lock my bass and keyboard tracks to the drums.

RU with me
Dr.Wu

[Roger Starr]

Hhmmm, how would you do this in Cubase SX? Does SX has groove templates like LP has?

RS

[Lance Hayden]

ive never owned an mpc, thought about checking the 1000 out for that very reason <groove> and high hat rolls. How do u load the stylus templates ? I like the 16b in general if i do quantize.

[KickinDaSpeaker]

Hey Lagerfeldt, I run a forum called http://logicprohelp.com with a section where users can exchange all sorts of logic files including .lso such as this one.

Would you be willing to share it with us over there? I'm sure a LOT of users would love to see it. I can upload it, or you can register and upload it yourself, whatever suits you better.

Just let me know! Thanks for sharing...

[Dr.Wu]

Loading a Stylus Midifile is done by drag and drop from the plug in onto the arrange.
With the file still selected you choose create groove template from the menu and it shows up as an additional entry of your list of quantize templates.
You need RMX for this of course.

Dont know about Cubase....

RU with me?
Dr.Wu

[goldphinga]

I have had mpc60 swing templates in logic for 5 years. They are very different to logics quantizes. For example if you open the matrix editor and look where 8th hats with the mpc quantize fall, you'll see they are much more behind the beat than logics which are absolutely dead on.

The mpc swing is no myth, i have a 3000 and it feels like nothing else. Once you have spent enough time with an mpc you can get close in logic but its not like the real thing.

A lot of the swing comes from the note timing resolution which on the mpc is more relaxed and hence more natural feeling. Generally ive found that the logic quantizes are super tight which is not what i'm after. If i do quantize with logic i'll back off the strength parameter down to 50% or below to retain some naturalness!

Also don't forget but a lot of the perceived swing is also down to the sounds you are using and how they feel together and also the velocities the notes were played in with.

[pan]

Originally Posted by goldphinga

Also don't forget but a lot of the perceived swing is also down to the sounds you are using and how they feel together and also the velocities the notes were played in with.

True - I can make a "stiff" 16quantized pattern groove with careful velocity editing. (and the right sounds) - OK "swing" is another animal...

btw... I miss the Creator/Notator b,c,d,e,f swing - It just isn't the same anymore in Logic I can get there, but not as easily as I did with C/N.
Any switch to reduce the resolution of Logic???

n

[adzski]

Originally Posted by JulianBrightnes

Anyways what 'air' are you talking about.

The front (or end sometimes) of a sample.

FWIW, about the closest thing you can get to a virtual beatbox IMHO is Robota Pro which comes with Samplitude/Seqouia. PC only though.

[goldphinga]

In logic there are very powerful controls over the quantize functions.

Double click on the word Qua in the quantize box and a whole box of customisable parameters appears.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by KickinDaSpeaker

Hey Lagerfeldt, I run a forum called http://logicprohelp.com with a section where users can exchange all sorts of logic files including .lso such as this one.

Would you be willing to share it with us over there? I'm sure a LOT of users would love to see it. I can upload it, or you can register and upload it yourself, whatever suits you better.

Just let me know! Thanks for sharing...

Thanks, but as you can see if you read carefully they groove is by a guy named Ken Lamison. I just did a little demo and posted the stuff here for people to use as a favour. I'm sure he wouldn't mind but go to his website and ask him if you see the need to.

Anyway, the groove is nice but can be adjusted a bit to suit individual taste. Also one should be aware that using a Groove Template can do funny stuff to your music if you only quantize using e.g. only the first bar instead of the whole groove.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by goldphinga

In logic there are very powerful controls over the quantize functions.

Double click on the word Qua in the quantize box and a whole box of customisable parameters appears.

You can use the Extended Parameters function to apply even finer details to the quantizing. If you have some dexterity and actually play the rhythm using the keyboard or external pad, the Q Strength paramter can be adjusted to allow for a less rigid quantization.

Using e.g. 80% Q Strength could lend a more human touch to the beat.

So perhaps instead of quantizing everything, just quantize kick+snare and do a 80% Q Strength on the hats you played.

I have the function placed on a key command (P).

[Fredrik]

I would like to add another thought on the MPC swing. Apart from the internal clock and the swing itself, the result is also depending on the fact that the sound is played from the same box that inhabits the sequenser, hence no midi latency.

It´s the same with logic I think where I find the EXS24 timing to be dead on compared to outside boxes. So in this sense it should be able to replicate the swing of the mpc if the sound is generated by the EXS24.

[timmah]

thanks very much these are great!
they'll be very handy

[Methlab]

Dr. Wu, are you doing evrything you described (the drag and drop) in stylus? or are you dragging into you sequencer?

I have wondered about stylus. I hear it is great for beatmaking. Does it go beyond loops, can you basicly make beats in it piece by piece?

[shapemod]

Hi Lagerfeldt,
cool idea, I always thought of doing this but never actual did, really appreciate you doing that, making DAW live more pleasant. Looking at your Midifiles I was just wondering if something went wrong in the prozess. Looking at your 50%file the third 16th is on 230 on the midigrid, thats 10 ticks in front. That seems too much for me, adding swing means delaying every 2nd and 4th 16th of a 16th groove right, so the third shouldn't be shifted at all. Please mind that 100 bpm on your mpc is not equal 100bpm in your DAW, maybe it's 99.93 or something. Tell me what you think!
Best
shapemod

[KickinDaSpeaker]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Thanks, but as you can see if you read carefully they groove is by a guy named Ken Lamison. I just did a little demo and posted the stuff here for people to use as a favour. I'm sure he wouldn't mind but go to his website and ask him if you see the need to.

Cool, thanks .. I missed that part! I'll ask him.

[M2E]

I've seen this type of thread so many times and I have to say-

First, I've been useing the MPC for about 15 years and I love it with all my heart.
I've went from the MPC60 to the MPC60 II to the MPC 3000.
I've also used Logic Audio and have had it for about 7 years. I love it as well. It is thee best in midi programming I think. Of course I haven't tried all of the programs but just a few. Cubase (PC), Pro Tools, and a few other but, none like Logic. Please don't flame me.
I do think Logic could emulate the MPC but, it would be real hard to do and very time consuming trying to do it.
First it's not just the 50% 16th note or 16th swing that Hip Hop/R&B producers use when making a beat well, at least for me with the MPC it's not. There's a lot more to the MPC than that.
Sometimes I use it @ 55% 16th note with Later @ 2 (meaning layback the beat). There are so many different combo's that make the beat feel great. Plus the pads add to that touch as I hate trying to use a midi keyboard.

Well that's my thought some what.

M2E

[Roger Starr]

MPC's must be great, but why isn't anybody playing the groove themselves? Get a stick or just your hands and play on a pad for the feel you and only you can do...? Isn't that much easier then looking for complicated quatisations and/or using an external MPC which you have to link to your song in Logic (or whatever you use)...?

Regards,

RS

[M2E]

Hey Roger Starr,

To answer your question, Your right. Why even use anything hardware nowadays. Everything is in Logic pretty much right? I guess people like to use it like mixers like to use outboard gear. It gives it a different flavor than you would normally do.
I have to go but I'll be back to further your answer.

M2E

[s34nsm411]

I hear people talk about this elusive mpc swing a lot but I have never pinpointed it in a rap song. Can anybody tell me a track where this is clearly used?

[scruffyprods]

It's not a rap song, but: "I Might Be Wrong" on Amnesiac by Radiohead. The electronic drums in that song are swung on an MPC-60.