Lexicon PCM Native Reverb Plugin Bundle

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by Shy

There's no reason VST plugins, for example, will suddenly stop working, unless they use some obscure copy protection which would prevent them from working in some hosts or future operating systems. I have 8 years old plugins that still work with no problem, in any host, including the 64-bit Cubase version. You make it sound like hardware will continue to work forever. Files don't deteriorate. As for replacing hardware, I have several hardware units I'd love to get rid of if their algorithms were available in software plugins. I friggin hate the hardware and only use it because of the algorithms' qualities.

Well, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...you are just pretending you don't understand and saying that I don't have a point. So take Native Instruments as an example: Artist Drums and Impakt... how much would I have to pay or which Kontakt should I have to buy to have them working today? Are they working with Leopard or Leopard Snow? or with Tiger? Which computer should I have? How powerful? Which issues are those plug-ins reporting today with PT LE 8.0cs3? and with Logic 8, and Logic 9 and Cubase, Vista, 64 bit? Windows XP? Windows 7? Cubase SX3? VST or VST2? Does it work with Abelton? and with Reason, which versions?
With hardware you switch it on and you start working... that is all that I wanted to say.

...But I must certainly will buy this Lexicon Bundle.

[Shy]

I don't know what you mean by "pretending you don't have a point". As for "you switch it on and it works", you can switch on your computer, run your sequencer software with plugins, and it will also work. I don't know what your point is. You don't "have" to pay for any software or any software update.

[Jorg]

Originally Posted by Studio Dweller

Yes, that's how it works. The rep at AES said they did it that way to conserve computer resources so you could easily run multiple instances.

Thats pretty bad!!

Imagine you're trying out a hall but the decide a room might be better but the room doesnt work so maybe a plate......
Theres no way of quickly doing an A/B like that.

VSS3 has algos in one plugin and so does pretty much every reverb plugin.
Shame they went this route.

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by gussyg2007

I'm afraid they will... in the future the next generation are not gonna want the hassle of plugging in hardware boxes ,just look at the growing list of companies selling plugin versions of all the boxes ,it really is going only one way, lexicon putting out this high end plugin says it all ,they know that the future is ITB they are gonna make more money out of this in the long run than building expensive boxes to ship technology that a computer can handle easily,get in there while you have a good name !! start selling software versions of your famous HW and you might be around in 10 years, the next generation aren't even gonna know what HW reverb is!!!

Yes plug-ins are the future, no doubt, and I'm happy. Hardware takes space, it is heavy to move around, needs power, with time needs service, some of it is not "user friendly", but you OWN it, (not like Waves products for instance), you turn it on and you use it. Sorry for going of topic...

Now, when can I download a demo?

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by Shy

I don't know what you mean by "pretending you don't have a point". As for "you switch it on and it works", you can switch on your computer, run your sequencer software with plugins, and it will also work. I don't know what your point is. You don't "have" to pay for any software or any software update.

Sorry Shy, I thought you were gussyg2007... but still, I would like to believe you... please tell me how can I use Impakt with a MacPro and PT LE 8, without paying a dime more. By the way Waves WUP tells you something?

[Shy]

They came to your house and threatened you to buy an update?

Edit, since you edited now: regarding Impakt and its incompatibility with your whatever hardware/software, that's not the fault of Software in general, it's the fault of one or more of those companies that their software doesn't work properly.

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by G-Spot

Well, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...you are just pretending you don't understand and saying that I don't have a point. So take Native Instruments as an example: Artist Drums and Impakt... how much would I have to pay or which Kontakt should I have to buy to have them working today? Are they working with Leopard or Leopard Snow? or with Tiger? Which computer should I have? How powerful? Which issues are those plug-ins reporting today with PT LE 8.0cs3? and with Logic 8, and Logic 9 and Cubase, Vista, 64 bit? Windows XP? Windows 7? Cubase SX3? VST or VST2? Does it work with Abelton? and with Reason, which versions?
With hardware you switch it on and you start working... that is all that I wanted to say.

...But I must certainly will buy this Lexicon Bundle.

I own the following USELESS DSP cards that are sitting around gathering dust:

- Creamware Pulsar I (pointless to use now) $1300
- 2 Yamaha DSP factory cards (Aweseome in 1997, don't work in modern Motherboards/OSs at all)/ About $2000 as I got 1 of them used and some ADAT cards and other stuff.
- Lexicon Core 32 w/PC90 reverbs (got on sale for $600) worth $2000. Will not work on Modern hardware, never worked very well in the first place
- Soundscape Mixtreme (will never have 64-bit drivers, hit or miss with working in modern motherboards) $500 + $500 analog front-end.

Bring on everything native!!!! DSP cards are boat-anchors.

[Banjo]

Hi from a low ender in Australia. It's interesting to veiw the pricing issue from a hobbiest's perspective, the current lowest price here for a MX400 is $700 aud with the PCM96 @ $6000, too prohibative to contemplate. I use Altiverb mostly but would love to have a quality reverb to use as well, even with a 10 per cent currency adjustment, high end reverb is almost within my reach, seems cheap to me.

Denis House
Songcatcher

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by G-Spot

I would first test it and then write, but I also believe that it is an awesome plug-in... you just forgot one thing... when you buy hardware, you are not worried with computers, operating systems versions, native or DSP based, iLok or not, which DAW and which plug-in format. You just switch it on and you work, whatever the system is, today and in the future... plug-ins are convenient but they don't replace the hardware (IMO).

Until it breaks and you can't get that chip, like happens these days with many old lexicons. Hardware is not guaranteed forever.

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by Shy

They came to your house and threatened you to buy an update?

No, that is why I don't work with them any longer. And that's my point.

Originally Posted by Shy

Edit, since you edited now: regarding Impakt and its incompatibility with your whatever hardware/software, that's not the fault of Software in general, it's the fault of one or more of those companies that their software doesn't work properly.

Exactly: I can use (for instance) a software compressor as long as it is compatible with my system, and the software company decides or not to develop updates. Some companies (like waves) charge money for that if your WUP expired... But I can use a hardware compressor whenever I want, with any system without paying extra. But I guess that, from the replies, I'm the only one who thinks that way...

[Shy]

A plugin is supposed to be compatible with any host that supports the plugin system (VST/AU, etc) and vise-versa. If it's not compatible with a certain host, something is broken either with it or with the host. Blame your software vendors if they provide you a half working product, not all software in general. The fact that you use buggy software doesn't mean everyone else does.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Nuno_F

Is it? I'd certainly would refuse to pay for a car that anyone can get for free.

So you own a car which cannot be stolen? Please let us know what model that is. I've been paying for Tele-Aid for years to help retrieve my car if it's jacked.

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by Gordon

I own the following USELESS DSP cards that are sitting around gathering dust:

- Creamware Pulsar I (pointless to use now) $1300
- 2 Yamaha DSP factory cards (Aweseome in 1997, don't work in modern Motherboards/OSs at all)/ About $2000 as I got 1 of them used and some ADAT cards and other stuff.
- Lexicon Core 32 w/PC90 reverbs (got on sale for $600) worth $2000. Will not work on Modern hardware, never worked very well in the first place
- Soundscape Mixtreme (will never have 64-bit drivers, hit or miss with working in modern motherboards) $500 + $500 analog front-end.

Bring on everything native!!!! DSP cards are boat-anchors.

I meant non-Desktop-laptop-computer dependent hardware... I was tempted with things like UAD, Duende and PowerCore, but I prefer Native...

[elambo]

Originally Posted by lllubi

the hardware still needs converters

How so? I'm connected via FireWire and there are no convertors.

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by elambo

So you own a car which cannot be stolen? Please let us know what model that is. I've been paying for Tele-Aid for years to help retrieve my car if it's jacked.

You're insisting in something that has little relation to what I was talking about, not sure why....

I own a car that is not freely available to everyone. If it was, then I would not have paid for it. If you don't understand what I'm saying, please don't waste your time addressing me because I am not replying.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Nuno_F

Until it breaks and you can't get that chip, like happens these days with many old lexicons. Hardware is not guaranteed forever.

Certainly not. I have a PCM80 which sits dormant because the part it needs doesn't exist anymore. That was around $2,200 and I didn't get my money's worth. It was dead after about 6 years.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Nuno_F

You're insisting in something that has little relation to what I was talking about, not sure why....

I own a car that is not freely available to everyone. If it was, then I would not have paid for it. If you don't understand what I'm saying, please don't waste your time addressing me because I am not replying.

My point is perfectly valid to this topic - yours is not - so if you've decided to drop it that would be very good for the thread.

[mobilemozart]

I'll definitely get this plug-in - it's a must for every serious studio or producer (in my opinion).

However, in the music-world (not post-production), the sound that made Lexicon famous is the sound of the 224 and 480L, maybe PCM70 and 300.

That will be the big question - does it deliver the classic sound of a 224 and 480L? Thats the reverb-sound many music-producers expect from a $ 1500 Lexicon plug-in.

I suspect that, not because I'm a Gearslutz, but out of necessity, I will be still running my 1980 Lexicon 224 and 2005 Lexicon 960L alongside this plug-in.

[Farshad]

Originally Posted by lordnielson

If you can't afford a Mercedes you get something less expensive.

People here bitch for years on end that Lexicon is losing the game because they don't have a plugin.
When they deliver, the bitching continues about the price.

This is THE plugin everybody has wished for. What were you expecting ?

+1000 Although it is out of my reach with the current pricing but I highly praise Lexicon for this move. Compared to DSP plugs which are always limited (instances, changes in future DSP, etc ...), native plugs can only get better with newer CPUs IMHO.

This is the dream many of us have had: having the Lexicon sound as a plugin and being native is just the icing on the cake.

thumbsup to Lexicon even though I can not afford it.

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by Shy

A plugin is supposed to be compatible with any host that supports the plugin system (VST/AU, etc) and vise-versa. If it's not compatible with a certain host, something is broken either with it or with the host. Blame your software vendors if they provide you a half working product, not all software in general. The fact that you use buggy software doesn't mean everyone else does.

You are mixing things up... the plug-ins in question worked in an old platform, and they don't today in any modern platform. I'm not talking about buggy plug-ins, I'm talking about "future compatibility" of perfect working plug-ins. NI decided not to develop any update on those, and that it is even OK... too bad for me.

But if they were in an Hardware (non computer dependent-DSP) format, I would be using them today still, like I use my old Eventide H3000 or my old Marshall JCM800 from the 80's. I'm sure I will be using these 10 years from now. How hard is that to understand? That's the advantage of the hardware that gussyg2007 forgot to say and thatmade me trigger this less interesting discussion... sorry for bringing this up...

[Jorg]

Originally Posted by mobilemozart

I'll definitely get this plug-in - it's a must for every serious studio or producer.

I guess that makes me a non-serious producer then. Thats pretty sad news...

[Farshad]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

Personally I would have liked to see them go the PCI-E route. That keeps out the cracks and not to worry about lost Iloks

But the problem would be dealing with lots of issues regarding system configuration. With native, it will mostly be software issues.

[mobilemozart]

Originally Posted by Jorg

I guess that makes me a non-serious producer then. Thats pretty sad news...

I certainly didn't mean it that way - more in the sense of: "Lexicon Reverbs are a Studio Standard and now that the real thing is available as a native plug-in, it will become a studio standard for professional ITB setups, just like a 1176 or fairchild or pultec or SSL emulation."

It is of course possible to write, produce and mix serious professional hi-end amazing sounding recordings without any of the above mentioned plug-ins.

Sorry!

[Shy]

G-Spot: it has nothing to do with old vs new platform. By design, like any plugin, the plugin must work in that host. If it doesn't, like I said, either it or the host is broken. I don't see how relying on software is any worse than relying on hardware. If anything, your chances of having the software work in the very far future are much greater than with hardware.

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by Shy

G-Spot: it has nothing to do with old vs new platform. By design, like any plugin, the plugin must work in that host. If it doesn't, like I said, either it or the host is broken. I don't see how relying on software is any worse than relying on hardware. If anything, your chances of having the software work in the very far future are much greater than with hardware.

I agree. This is especially true for anyone not on the upgrading bandwagon, particularly in what concerns operating systems.

[gussyg2007]

Originally Posted by G-Spot

That's the advantage of the hardware that gussyg2007 forgot to say and thatmade me trigger this less interesting discussion... sorry for bringing this up...

excuse me for having an opinion on GS you could always ignore my posts

[mobilemozart]

With this plug-in, Lexicon gives us almost a free choice of hardware and host-solution. Why not use a dedicated PC or Mac to just run this plug-in under whatever host. Add a soundcard with Digital In/Out and/or Converters and you have built your own Lexicon Hardware Reverb. Totally independent from any future software update.
My 224 didn't receive a software update for 27 years and still sounds great.

[Washington]

Nobody Special, please note that I'm a candidate for a seriously interesting post-beta-version-1-nice-discount group buy. I reckon some here would join. Some others can have a look at initiating a Behringer what's-that-thing-again group buy, too, it's apparently interesting. To each his own.

Peace.

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by Shy

G-Spot:(...)I don't see how relying on software is any worse than relying on hardware. If anything, your chances of having the software work in the very far future are much greater than with hardware(...).

So you are saying that all plug-ins in a session that I made in Pro Tools LE 6 in my Mac PPC, will open and play today exactly the same way in my MacPro with PT LE 8? (and that I didn't pay a single cent for the available updates since then?)

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by Washington

Nobody Special, please note that I'm a candidate for a seriously interesting post-beta-version-1-nice-discount group buy. I reckon some here would join. Some others can have a look at initiating a Behringer what's-that-thing-again group buy, too, it's apparently interesting. To each his own.

Peace.

Although I doubt that will happen, I'd go with a group buy as well.