Lexicon PCM Native Reverb Plugin Bundle

[Mikey MTC]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

A stereo RTAS plug in on a stereo aux track will eat up 4 voices. Also some RTAS plug ins have sample latency up the wazoo and when exiting the TDM mixer in and out sometimes throw off delay compensation. Lastly not all report the latency correctly, so even when tracking you may hear a slight delay.

I think these voice quote are only if you have a TDM plugin before the RTAS plugin. If the only plugs in your strip are RTAS, then you only give up the one voice (I think). Because of this, if I'm specifically using an RTAS plug, I'll switch the other plugs before it to RTAS too if possible.

You can also get shocking amounts of latency by following TDM plugs with RTAS. With today's computer power I now feel more comfortable having a smattering of RTAS plugs in a large session.

If RTAS plugs aren't reporting their latency correctly, this is a bug in those specific plugs - not an RTAS problem.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

We may indeed be mad, but these are the PCM96 reverbs (which are a bit better than the 960L reverbs.

Lexicon is NOT mad at all.
They have the best industry standard reverbs for years.
Every producer wishes them for sure.
Is plug-in better way than hardware, if algos are equal?
DEFINITELY

I think they would destroy their top of the high-end position if they accept to go for less. TC is actaully selling their top reverbs piece by piece.
It is wise decision, main point is to make right software protection.
I would be happy to pay this price for plug in to avoid AD-DA conversion alone.

Only thing we need to understand is Native Bundle in sonic quality terms equal to PCM96. If yes, then congrats Lexicon. I'm first to buy (I have PCM96 and 3 older Lex boxes)

[thermos]

The one thing that still worries me is Lexicon's dropping of product support in the past. Lexiverb (or was it called Nuverb) in OS 9, why didn't that get ported over again? If one was guaranteed updates and installers for a super duper long time, (and it worked flawlessly from V1) then the price may be justified. But they have to NAIL it, in regards to sound and stability.

The sound samples are very happening though.

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by GYang

Lexicon is NOT mad at all.
They have the best industry standard reverbs for years.
Every producer wishes them for sure.
Is plug-in better way than hardware, if algos are equal?
DEFINITELY

I think they would destroy their top of the high-end position if they accept to go for less. TC is actaully selling their top reverbs piece by piece.
It is wise decision, main point is to make right software protection.
I would be happy to pay this price for plug in to avoid AD-DA conversion alone.

Only thing we need to understand is Native Bundle in sonic quality terms equal to PCM96. If yes, then congrats Lexicon. I'm first to buy (I have PCM96 and 3 older Lex boxes)

if Lexi goes bankrupt you will be happy if you didnt sell your hardware

[lordnielson]

If this works with some of the hardware vst players you can go a full 360

[GYang]

Originally Posted by lllubi

if Lexi goes bankrupt you will be happy if you didnt sell your hardware

Actually I don't indend to sell hardware even if I buy plug-in.
In some projects I can imagine benefits of having hardware reverbs.
Plug-in is great in terms of simplifying part of job without using digital or analogue in-outs.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by lllubi

if Lexi goes bankrupt you will be happy if you didnt sell your hardware

If Lexicon will get close to the edge of becoming bankrupt (which probably is less likely than ever, since they finally seem to have made a truly high-end, native reverb plugin), some other major company will step in with some cash and make sure their work will be continued.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

I come across kids mixing in their bedrooms using the Waves Mercury bundle - it's insane - I cannot afford the Mercury bundle - yet their they are getting great mixes using cracked software and not a care in the world. Makes me sick!

I saw such pirated software bundles several times for 20$.
It proved to be 100% functionally OK and it's VERY BAD that protection of such expensive product is so ridiculosly weak.
And yes, I don't use cracked Wave plug-ins, as I don't like it
Hopefully, Lex can use some smarter approach.

[Leon EA]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Of course you're going to mix with your ears rather than your eyes. The display is there to hypnotize the producer so that you can get some work done.

+1

The only weak thing about this product is that it is a lot of money for a product that can only be bought "as is" without any promise of future compatibility. Like with all software & plug-ins. Then again, you could always throw it on an "old" computer and use that as your machine room hardware unit... does anyone have an empty 480 case lying around...?

[Vank]

Honestly I think Lexicon isn't selling a significant amount of 960's these days.

Think about it, how many 960's would leave the factory a month...

From a business perspective 1899 is excellent, and no hardware failures/handling etc...

This is the way of the future

[cane creek]

Originally Posted by Finnish

Use the warezed version...?

I dont use warez , and for your information ilok plugins don't get cracked no more.

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

I come across kids mixing in their bedrooms using the Waves Mercury bundle - it's insane - I cannot afford the Mercury bundle - yet their they are getting great mixes using cracked software and not a care in the world. Makes me sick!

Waves didnt exclude us from their plugs as Lexi does at the moment
and i doubt Lexiy will let us buy single algos since they KNOW nobody uses more than
a couple of their algos on the hardware units

[Leon EA]

I make gear decisions based on whether it is a tool that helps me doing my job better and/or with more fun, not whether other people get it for free.

[Benmrx]

EDIT

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by cane creek

... and for your information ilok plugins don't get cracked no more.

Is that really true?

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by cane creek

I dont use warez , and for your information ilok plugins don't get cracked no more.

iLok hasnt been touched for Intel Macs - but with PC it is still fair game for hackers as far as I know...Syncrosoft for PC has also been attacked recently...

[cane creek]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

iLok hasnt been touched for Intel Macs - but with PC it is still fair game for hackers as far as I know...Syncrosoft for PC has also been attacked recently...

Anything releaseed on ilok in the last year id be suprised it there was a crack , i don't use wearz however im not a prude i know where to go looking for wearz we all have google , thats why i can make bold statements like ilok doesnt get cracked anymore.

[The Listener]

Just a side note to anyone concerned with piracy for the reason that "kids" could have the same tools as pros... if you think your value or the value of your end product (sound, mix...) depends on the more expensive gear that others cannot afford, then I must say this is quite lame.

Yes, "kids" use Waves and other cracked tools, but they don't know how to use it. When they figure it out they usually go legit, buy licences and start charging their clients... There is some sort of "socialist" feel to it, involuntary altruism by the cracked software developers, but in the end - you are not exclusive because you own something, but because your KNOWLEDGE how to do something with those tools.

Big thumbsup to Lexicon for finally releasing a reverb that could end the meaningless ITB-OTB debates about digital reverbs. I always said in regard to digital reverbs - a code is a code is a code... If contemporary computers can chew it - great! There is no reason why plug-ins should be of lesser quality than a code inside a separate HW unit... It's been debated, I know, but Lexi could proove them HW digital reverb zealots wrong, finally.

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by The Listener

Just a side note to anyone concerned with piracy for the reason that "kids" could have the same tools as pros... if you think your value or the value of your end product (sound, mix...) depends on the more expensive gear that others cannot afford, then I must say this is quite lame.

the probleme is that until yesterday we lived in a world where our plugs and old hardware units had a value,while i cant say i feel a strong need to buy a PCM70 since
i heard the Tiled Room 2 on youtube

[Creative]

Hey Lexi, if you are reading, why not planning an upgrade discount for old OS9 Lexiverb users?
This would be much appreciated.

Stefano Cappelli
Creative Mastering - Italy

[Football]

The sound and the playing are just not helpful to show off this verb.

[jamwerks]

The main problem with these plugs is that they do nothing to make your rack look any healthier.

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by Football

The sound and the playing are just not helpful to show off this verb.

Lol.

Absolutely! - that guitarist sounds very 'dodge'...

Perhaps Lex are saying "look our lovely 'verbs can polish a terrible guitarist with wonky sound.

Nice move by Lex though - would love to be able to afford that bundle - will wait a year or so for the price to become more reasonable.

Now if Avid would sort out PDC for LE...

[The Listener]

Originally Posted by cane creek

$1,899.00 ......... and what if your ilok is stolen/breaks ?

That's why I left my Synchrosoft dongle with Nuendo 4 (similarly priced) at home while I was at the 2 months artist residency in India and used a pirated version of Nuendo 3...

Better be careful than sorry. Think about it the other way - You - the most precious piece of gear you'll ever own - walk around this deadly planet every day - what if you get kidnapped or beaten up / driven over / shot at, etc.?

I have too much time today, sorry.

[KingDiamond]

First can everyone quit repeating $1,899? I think they said it will sell for $1,500. Also I think people are complaining a bit too much here. This might be the cream of the crop plug-in, so don't immediately expect to afford it. How about everyone hold their opinion until they actually get to demo the product?

So many people here seem to be so "concerned" over Lexicon's financial bottom line here, do you own the company? Let them sell it for what they think it is worth. In the end the sales will be judged by the market.

I just think too many people here are whining about nothing.

[Michael Carnes]

I've seen speculation about there still being differences in sound. One of the commenters with demo code has stated there is a difference. Time for a bit of explanation.

One of the bugs I fixed had to do with a parameter called "Tap Slope". It's busted in the PCM96 (as strongly attested by zmix) and it's fixed in the plug. It does cause a small difference in sound, and I will fix it in the 96 when I've got time.

There were a number of small changes I made in the way reverb decay time is measured. This means that there will be tiny differences in the time between the plug and the box--especially at small room sizes. One thing I've learned is that mixers use their ears anyway and not the numbers. It's easy to tweak from the fader, which is why it's always in the soft row. I'll backfill those changes in the box too, when I've got a chance.

There are a number of other little tweaks, noticeable or not, that are in my notes. So I'm not slavish about duplicating old stuff--warts and all. They are still the same algorithms--with corrections. They are in no way crippled.

And finally, I've been spending time 'recalibrating' presets. In general, you want something like unity gain through a preset. In truth, you can't get there, since the response of a reverb is so strongly dependent on the source material. But I'm still tweaking gains.

So even if you turn off spin, you'll find that algorithms don't null. Should they?

I've just begun a week of badly-needed vacation. I'll monitor this list while I can, but responses will be infrequent. I'm not ignoring you for good--just for a while.

N.S.

[Shy]

Originally Posted by KingDiamond

I just think too many people here are whining about nothing.

and it will continue no matter how useful the plugins prove to be. All kinds of nonsense. You'll never see a violinist complain that he can't afford a certain $5000 violin. He knows the quality comes at that price and that is that. He'll stay with what he can afford at the moment and perhaps save money and eventually buy that violin if he feels it would really help fulfil his artistic needs, which he happens to have.

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

The main problem with these plugs is that they do nothing to make your rack look any healthier.

Buy a Samsung 24 " TFT for nothing and leave the lexicon plugin
as default there - decrease resolution until the whole monitor shows only the lexicon plugin.
then custom spray the monitor into your favourite colour or maybe even try a flame job.

Buy more rack spacers und custom spray them.
Buy more Ikea paper lamps to fill the empty space.
Buy more lava lamps and pan them hard right / hard left.

If this does not work read some books about ZEN and realize that there is nothing like emptyness

[cowudders]

[Jorg]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

They are still the same algorithms--with corrections. They are in no way crippled.

Thats great news!!