Lexicon PCM Native Reverb Plugin Bundle

[xj32]

Originally Posted by Shy

You were about to buy the PCM96 without knowing what effects it offers? You should look at the specs again, you'll find that it offers effects other than reverb.

I am talking reverb for reverb, I could care less about the other effects as I own an H8000FW. I have been using a PCM 96 at a friends studio for awhile now and I love the way it sounds and was planning on getting one of my own, but now I am wondering what the advantages of the hardware will be over the software and if it justifies the price difference.

XJ

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by xj32

. . .but now I am wondering what the advantages of the hardware will be over the software and if it justifies the price difference.

XJ

I can't think of any unless you don't own a computer.

[Shy]

On whether the price difference is "justified", I couldn't say. Manufacturing and distributing hardware is extremely complicated and costly, so you gotta take that into consideration first. As far as sound, according to the developer himself these are the very same algorithms, so there shouldn't any significant difference.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by Gordon

I can't think of any unless you don't own a computer.

If you use it in a live situation the hardware would be more preferable. FOH, in your guitar rack, etc.

[hipass]

I would hope to get a 30 day demo to try it out first.
Especially at that price.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by hipass

I would hope to get a 30 day demo to try it out first.
Especially at that price.

There will be demos available.

[Warp69]

Originally Posted by danger

UAD EMT 250, and judging by the reports, they nailed.

They're quite close - that's correct. But it's only one reverb algorithm, right?

Multiply the price of UAD EMT250 with 7 - what do you get?

[Warp69]

Originally Posted by seancostello

Turn off the time variation (Spin/Wander), in order to get cancellation. Otherwise, nothing will cancel out at all, as the randomization of time variations will prevent this.

You assume that Spin at 0 represents Off.

[trustyjim]

I'm really excited to hear about this! I had been considering a PCM96 but now that there will be a plugin with street price possibly as low as $1500 I think this represents a great value! I can't wait to try the plug as soon as the demo is available, and if it's good I will buy for sure.

To all you naysayers about the price, why don't you go pick on Waves for the mercury bundle which costs over $10,000

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by danger

UAD EMT 250, and judging by the reports, they nailed.

Sounds closer to a Dynatron 255 than the original EMT 250. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, actually a good thing that its a plug in reverb.

I thought the same thing about the Eventide plugs and SP2016 compared to the real things by the way.

Especially in regards to the 2016 plug in because i sold the new remake hardware unit.

[danger]

Nobody Special was quite sure before that there ll be people who ll claim that the hw sounds better, even the maker said more than once, the algorhytm and everything is 100% the same as he wrote in C++ for both versions.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by danger

Nobody Special was quite sure before that there ll be people who ll claim that the hw sounds better, even the maker said more than once, the algorhytm and everything is 100% the same as he wrote in C++ for both versions.

Personally i would love it if they did because i can save money not having to buy the hardware but there is no TDM so for a hard core ProTools user it renders itself useless. Using RTAS plugs on auxes and master faders is a big no-no in PTHD.

Basically it equals=

So its a no go for me. I will have to look into the box no matter what. But since i am sure people here will be chucking them on the classifieds, i should be able to find a great deal for a used PCM96 some where.

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Personally i would love it if they did because i can save money not having to buy the hardware but there is no TDM so for a hard core ProTools user it renders itself useless. Using RTAS plugs on auxes and master faders is a big no-no in PTHD.

Basically it equals=

So Lexi's not doing a TDM of these? Strange, that's a lot of users, and ones who can't use cracks.

[Schmacko]

I like the "no frills", fader-style controls of the the plugin GUI Very functional.

...Hopefully, a couple of the 5 people who end up buying this plug will make me jealous of not having those awesome faders.

[Razorfish]

I stick RTAS on auxes and masters it all the time, using the UAD stuff. What's the problem?

W

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Personally i would love it if they did because i can save money not having to buy the hardware but there is no TDM so for a hard core ProTools user it renders itself useless. Using RTAS plugs on auxes and master faders is a big no-no in PTHD.

Basically it equals=

So its a no go for me. I will have to look into the box no matter what. But since i am sure people here will be chucking them on the classifieds, i should be able to find a great deal for a used PCM96 some where.

[choukette]

Multiply the price of UAD EMT250 with 7 - what do you get?

an overpriced plugin that nobody buy

selling software at the price of hardware is just ridiculous.

it's just an outdated way of thinking,

producing just sofware just cost less (initial cost of the R&D and one server to sell it , no hardware to produce, ...),

the only risk at selling software at this price is bankrupcy (genwaves eq ...), selling algo to an other company (algorythmix /ssl), cracked sofware (the challenge is fantastic for hackers) and internet bashing on the forum,

and for the few who buy it it's just a risky investment

UA clearly understand it and clearly UA is a leader in the plugin market.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by choukette

an overpriced plugin that nobody buy

selling software at the price of hardware is just ridiculous.

it's just an outdated way of thinking,

producing just sofware just cost less (initial cost of the R&D and one server to sell it , no hardware to produce, ...),

the only risk at selling software at this price is bankrupcy (genwaves eq ...), selling algo to an other company (algorythmix /ssl), cracked sofware (the challenge is fantastic for hackers) and internet bashing on the forum,

and for the few who buy it it's just a risky investment

UA clearly understand it and clearly UA is a leader in the plugin market.

I think selling your album for 12 bucks is ripoff. It only costs 50 cents or so to press one cd. You should sell it for 60 cents tops!

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by Animus

A blind test would be more revealing and would rule out placebo effect.Why don't you post some A/B samples and let us blind test it in a poll?

Only a double blind test proves anything. The rest is just wasted time. People that paid twice as much for the hardware will for the most part hear a difference, regardless of it being there or not.

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by choukette

an overpriced plugin that nobody buy

selling software at the price of hardware is just ridiculous.

it's just an outdated way of thinking,

producing just sofware just cost less (initial cost of the R&D and one server to sell it , no hardware to produce, ...),

the only risk at selling software at this price is bankrupcy (genwaves eq ...), selling algo to an other company (algorythmix /ssl), cracked sofware (the challenge is fantastic for hackers) and internet bashing on the forum,

and for the few who buy it it's just a risky investment

UA clearly understand it and clearly UA is a leader in the plugin market.

The cost of R&D is most of the cost. In my area, which is not related to music, engineering time is about 90% of the cost to our company, and then there's obviously the profit required to pay everyone's wages on top of that. Even if we only sold software with no hardware you'd save about 10%, no more.

[masterblaster]

Thrill, putting a RTAS on an AUX is no problem, it just uses another voice. Even modest HD rigs have 128+ voices, so what's the big problem?

[lordnielson]

If you can't afford a Mercedes you get something less expensive.

People here bitch for years on end that Lexicon is losing the game because they don't have a plugin.
When they deliver, the bitching continues about the price.

This is THE plugin everybody has wished for. What were you expecting ?

[Animus]

Originally Posted by masterblaster

Thrill, putting a RTAS on an AUX is no problem, it just uses another voice. Even modest HD rigs have 128+ voices, so what's the big problem?

Has something to do with latency you think? protools is such a dinosaur.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by lordnielson

If you can't afford a Mercedes you get something less expensive.

People here bitch for years on end that Lexicon is losing the game because they don't have a plugin.
When they deliver, the bitching continues about the price.

This is THE plugin everybody has wished for. What were you expecting ?

thumbsup

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by masterblaster

Thrill, putting a RTAS on an AUX is no problem, it just uses another voice. Even modest HD rigs have 128+ voices, so what's the big problem?

A stereo RTAS plug in on a stereo aux track will eat up 4 voices. Also some RTAS plug ins have sample latency up the wazoo and when exiting the TDM mixer in and out sometimes throw off delay compensation. Lastly not all report the latency correctly, so even when tracking you may hear a slight delay.

On Master Faders i notice that some RTAS processing hungry plug ins throw off the latency compensation completely as well. Especially if i insert hardware outboard before it.

Lastly 4 voices may not seem alot, but if i use 2-4 reverbs in a mix(and i tend to sometimes use more) i will end up using 16 voices. With some of the tracks i get to mix those 16 voices plus the processing is alot to lose for a reverb.

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by lordnielson

If you can't afford a Mercedes you get something less expensive.

People here bitch for years on end that Lexicon is losing the game because they don't have a plugin.
When they deliver, the bitching continues about the price.

This is THE plugin everybody has wished for. What were you expecting ?

that Lexicon is aware that there are users who buy plugs since they understand that
it is necessary to support developers

i always asked myself whats going to happen when a plugin company reaches a point where it knows that its product cant get better

why would you buy a new mercedes when there is no newer model?

that seems to happen here

[cane creek]

$1,899.00 ......... and what if your ilok is stolen/breaks ?

[Finnish]

Originally Posted by cane creek

$1,899.00 ......... and what if your ilok is stolen/breaks ?

Use the warezed version...?

With this prize it'll be number 1 project for hackers.

[jamwerks]

$1,899 seems even modest if the sound is really there. If you don't want to spend that much, there are lots(!) of sofeware alternatives in the $250-$400 range.

These are the same guys that complain to Harley dealers also that their bikes should cost half what they do? (there is always the used Kawasaki alternative)

A lot of what pricing is about is what people are willing to pay, and I'm sure that there are lots of high end users willing to unfold the bills.

Personally I would have liked to see them go the PCI-E route. That keeps out the cracks and not to worry about lost Iloks

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Lastly 4 voices may not seem alot, but if i use 2-4 reverbs in a mix(and i tend to sometimes use more) i will end up using 16 voices. With some of the tracks i get to mix those 16 voices plus the processing is alot to lose for a reverb.

Not withstanding all the highpoints of TDM and PT (and there are lots of them), it's the things like this that really show the outdatedness of that technology.

Limits are often good to have in creative processes, but that would seem almost crippeling.

[The MPCist]

For 1899....... Man, there's no way I'm paying that for some algo's.... and native too, not even TDM or any other excuse that could be made. tutt