Lexicon PCM Native Reverbs...This could be huge....

[zvenx]

YouTube - PCM Native Reverb Plugin Bundle AES 2009 Video


Just realised it was posted by Lexicon PRo....
rsp

[DeBasement]

Cool...

So did Lexicon just make me look like a sucker for buying a hardware PCM96?

I'm still sore after paying for a Core32 years ago which they discontinued within a year or so of release.....

Hm.

Still love the sound of the PCM96 though. And I'm one of the lucky ones for whom Firewire streaming is working reliably.

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by DeBasement

Cool...

So did Lexicon just make me look like a sucker for buying a hardware PCM96?

Still love the sound of the PCM96 though. And I'm one of the lucky ones for whom Firewire streaming is working reliably.

There's a lot in the PCM96 that isn't in the plugs: Delays, chorus, pitch, resonant chords and so on. So I don't think you're a sucker at all. Glad the F/W is working for you.

NS

[HockeyMike]

ohhhh, baby...

Are they talking price/delivery date yet?

[Chao]

Can't wait!!

[taturana]

i like this idea... really liked the videos, especially this one


... can't wait to get my hands on one...

now that looks like a serious reverb plug.

[timtoonz]

Originally Posted by taturana

i like this idea... really liked the videos, especially this one


... can't wait to get my hands on one...

now that looks like a serious reverb plug.

Informative video but... Gotta wonder who at Lexicon puts together a video about a reverb plugin WITHOUT LETTING YOU HEAR THE VERB.

Wall to wall techno talk and almost no snippets of the actual algorithms being discussed. Marketing 101: Show don't tell.

Amazin'.

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by timtoonz

Gotta wonder who at Lexicon puts together a video about a reverb plugin WITHOUT LETTING YOU HEAR THE VERB.

Who would do such a thing? Head on over to YouTube at YouTube - LexiconPro's Channel
You'll hear plenty of samples.

N.S.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by HockeyMike

ohhhh, baby...

Are they talking price/delivery date yet?

It will be available in November 2009 with a suggested retail price of $1,899.

[camerondye]

$1899, that's just ridiculous for the most part.
cam

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by camerondye

$1899, that's just ridiculous for the most part.
cam

That's an MSRP. I'd imagine it will street for less. But I just code 'em. I don't price 'em.

But let me pose a somewhat theoretical question. If you're willing to pay over $3K for one or two high-quality reverbs (that just happen to be in a box), why wouldn't you pay half that for a few dozen reverbs of identical quality? You don't burn up I/O getting to them, you don't need rack space and you don't need to use as much electricity. You can print as many tracks as you need on one pass (saving multiple passes), and you don't have to write down your settings.

I understand hesitation when what you buy isn't a tangible piece of gear, but the gear is simply an investment to help you get your job done. Can't you do that with software, too?

[Jorg]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Can't you do that with software, too?

I can but only if the quality is the exact same (no, not similar) to the hardware PCM96.
In that case I happily spend that money for being able to use the code.

However if there are tradeoffs (due to possible DSP architecture of the HW version or due to CPU demand) then no. Then it would just be a overpriced tradeoff to the real deal.

[csl]

I think there's always a worry, when buying expensive software, that you're relying on the developers to keep it working as computer platforms progress (OSes, DAWs etc.). When you're dropping a couple of grand on a hardware box, you're also happily buying the peace of mind that comes with knowing it'll run so long as you have electricity and something to interface with it.

Plugins feel comparatively fragile in their longevity, so it's difficult to directly compare spending the same amount of money on software versus hardware. It feels riskier. Without wishing to take the thread elsewhere, I think it could be difficult, psychologically, to accept the same price tag despite 1:1 algorithms, even when considering the manifold advantages and conveniences of software versions. But if you buy a guarantee along with software that it'll run for 5 or 10 years, then I think that'd go a long way to convince people to part with their cash for the software.

I'm sure it'll sound amazing though.

[Chao]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

That's an MSRP. I'd imagine it will street for less. But I just code 'em. I don't price 'em.

But let me pose a somewhat theoretical question. If you're willing to pay over $3K for one or two high-quality reverbs (that just happen to be in a box), why wouldn't you pay half that for a few dozen reverbs of identical quality? You don't burn up I/O getting to them, you don't need rack space and you don't need to use as much electricity. You can print as many tracks as you need on one pass (saving multiple passes), and you don't have to write down your settings.

I understand hesitation when what you buy isn't a tangible piece of gear, but the gear is simply an investment to help you get your job done. Can't you do that with software, too?

1) People feel differently regarding software and something they can touch and feel the ownership. Let's why for similar price, most people will buy CD, hardcopy books than download versions. Not to mention you don't have to worry about the hardware's compatibility for many years. I still see many PCM90s around and I still have a a MPX1 which serves me well for years. (Thanks, Lexicon!)

2) There is almost no resale value for software. And I guess for $1899 USD or anything near that, it's probably better to buy an used PCM96. When you sell it later, you may still get a similar price. That's value.

3) The "bundle" is a strange term. It's actually a reverb plugin with different algos. Would you call VSS3 a TC VSS3 bundle? If it's a bundle, please include other stuff or give us a real "bundle price". Or potential buyers will feel it's a marketing.

4) Will you have educational price?

IMHO, Lexicon should reconsider the price ASAP.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by Jorg

I can but only if the quality is the exact same (no, not similar) to the hardware PCM96.
In that case I happily spend that money for being able to use the code.

thumbsup

[_Morph_]

$1899 is outrageous!

I understand Lexicon's positions, being that they're used to selling hardware, but for that price I'd rather buy hardware, which I can use in and out of the box.
The probable outcome will be that there will be more people using cracked versions rather than legitimate owners of the software, like Waves. If it was cheaper, I might consider it, but certainly not at this price point!

[jbjoubaud]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

There's a lot in the PCM96 that isn't in the plugs: Delays, chorus, pitch, resonant chords and so on. So I don't think you're a sucker at all. Glad the F/W is working for you.

NS

I don't use the delays, pitch; rsonant chords and so on that much. In fact I couldn't care less if they were not in that box. So now what does that makes me ?
(plus the FW doesn't work for me)

If the plug sounds as good as my pcm96, I am really pissed about this release because I am restricted to 2 channels for more dough and one space less in my rack !

[Gordon]

VSS3 is $500+ the cost of the DSP card ($399 for a card with no plugs). Just for perspective . . .

I'm sure it's worth $1500 but I think Lex would sell more units and make more money at a lower price point.

[Nicholas Varley]

Food for thought on plugs.

When I buy plugs I always have this niggling thought at the back of my mind - "in two years time you're going to change your computer and update your OS and this DVD full of brilliantly written code will be nothing more than a frisbee..."

I appreciate the concept and it's definitely the way the industry has to go to increase market share (and keep code monkeys in work !) but it's a lot of dough. The most I've ever put down on code alone is $3000 for the Waves Diamond Collection, not counting my yearly WUP fee. And today, four years on I find that Logic's own built-in plugs are better than most of the Waves I've got.

So it goes to show the pure musicality of Lexicon hardware that people still use them, what, 15 years down the line ? A couple of similarly long-lasting music technology brands come to mind too - my 1970's Minimoog still gets used, so does my 1980's Kurzweil K2000 and so does my 1850's cello lol. But do I still use the EQ's in ProTools III ? Do you ?

I think that puts $1899 in perspective a little for me - I'm still saving up for the boxed version. At least mains power and jackplugs aren't going to be updated every 6 months.

[0t0b0t]

Ri-dick-ilous!
All theses years Lexicon thought it's not worth it to step into the plugin game with their good algorithms.. now that there are so many good options available with much more realistic price points, they think they can sell more than a couple of copies of this with a price tag like that??

Maybe they're doing this so they can assure themselves that it was a good decision all those years not to step into the software world with their better algos, after they realize they won't sell many licenses of this.......

[gizeh12]

Originally Posted by csl

Plugins feel comparatively fragile in their longevity, so it's difficult to directly compare spending the same amount of money on software versus hardware. It feels riskier. Without wishing to take the thread elsewhere

Not even to mention the resale value.
When Lexicon abandons this after a few years,,,prices drop to near zero

A lexicon pcm96 will be at least worth half of the buying price.
When you own a business these things do matter.

[wakestyle]

hopefully things go well and they will continue to develop other algorithms for native setups.

[Immersion]

I am saving up to the PCM 96

I wonder how this does compare to SSL's X-verb ?

Anyway...that Lexicon was going native was very unexpected...

[rolo95]

Originally Posted by Immersion

I am saving up to the PCM 96

I wonder how this does compare to SSL's X-verb ?

Anyway...that Lexicon was going native was very unexpected...

Have you auditioned a Bricasti ?

[bing81]

Originally Posted by csl

I think there's always a worry, when buying expensive software, that you're relying on the developers to keep it working as computer platforms progress (OSes, DAWs etc.). When you're dropping a couple of grand on a hardware box, you're also happily buying the peace of mind that comes with knowing it'll run so long as you have electricity and something to interface with it.

Plugins feel comparatively fragile in their longevity, ...

Woah, I feel exactly the opposite. I have no problem in investing in plugs, knowing that they'll still work in x years time (e.g. my McDSP EQ ... 10+ years old now?). Hardware-type hardware, no problem either, I have some classic older outboard from the 70's that sounds fabulous and can be easily repaired. On the other hand, an outboard reverb/fx unit is basically a dedicated computer (software, chips etc. etc.), and that is a much more dodgy proposition than software.

I have a real Lexicon 300. Love it. But I know that if it breaks down, it'll pretty well be curtains, so I print the reverbs back into every mix.

Bring on the plugs ... but self-defeating at this price.

B

[bing81]

Originally Posted by camerondye

$1899, that's just ridiculous for the most part.
cam

What's really ridiculous is that it's only RTAS. No TDM?

B

[Paul Vicory]

I wouldn't have a problem with the price, if Lexicon presented this plug-in bundle in a particular fashion - i.e., guaranteed free future updates/upgrades for life, with a contractual commitment to provide more/improved algorithms over time - this level of coin would have to buy me a future-proof product, regardless of how well the PCM96 is considered at the moment. Given the changeability of software, there's no real reason not to. A reverb for life is probably worth this kind of money.

[steff3]

Well, I think in terms of the price Lexicon should also take into account that with hardware you buy a product, with software, you buy a license, not a product.

well,

best

[Immersion]

Originally Posted by Jorg

I can but only if the quality is the exact same (no, not similar) to the hardware PCM96.
In that case I happily spend that money for being able to use the code.

However if there are tradeoffs (due to possible DSP architecture of the HW version or due to CPU demand) then no. Then it would just be a overpriced tradeoff to the real deal.

This is exactely my worry too...I strongly doubt that the software reverb sonically sounds better then the hardware. I am looking forward to read the A/B tests.

And as some one said there is a lot of stuff you can't do with the software, I think Surround is one of the things...

Anyway, at this price point you get an PCM 91.

And would be interesting to know how much CPU it does use...

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by Immersion

This is exactely my worry too...I strongly doubt that the software reverb sonically sounds better then the hardware. I am looking forward to read the A/B tests.
...

What hardware? A PCM91 is also a computer doing calculations, will those calculations differ when run on another computer. It's the same math. And this math is the same as used in the PCM.