Best place to buy a new PC

[ron florentine]

I am going to the dark side.....I have been using a Mac for almost 20 years and I feel the price performance ratio has shifted over to the PC.Where are some great places to purchase a PC computer built mainly for audio recording ......I will be using Nuendo.
What are the main componets in putting a fairly great system together.........the what and what not to gets........remember i a mac guy we didnt have all the different options.

Thanks Again
Ron Florentine
Soundswest studio

[manning1]

ron.....
ive posted many tips on pc's in the past year....just search on my name and include AMD in the search pattern....AND GET A DARN GOOD POWER SUPPLY.
i find too many people chintz on this aspect..then wonder why they get problems.....
biggest tip i can give you is .. dont buy a system blind.......try and test it out if you can with your audio software and sound interface.
for example a amd sempron (one processor) config i recently tested blew away a dual core in some critical fx tests.....read some of my back posts on testing methods i do.

[Mitch]

I just bought a system from these guys:

http://www.adkproaudio.com/

Very pro group and reasonable pricing. They all have and use PC based studios, so they'll know what you need, tweak the system etc.

[jcschild]

thumbsup

thanks Mitch!

Scott
ADK

[Mitch]

You're totally welcome Scott !

Chris was great to work with !

Now............. HAS IT SHIPPED YET ?

[greggybud]

www.pcaudiolabs.com

They have a good website and you can custom build your PC on line and get a price.

Also, the service after the sale has been excellent. They are not too big so they can give you personal service. I think one of the employees worked for Steinberg.

[genericperson]

ron,

pc's have been a better value for the longest time (forever maybe?). it all has to do with allowing third parties to compete to drive prices down, and to have the processor-buying computer large enough to support cpu developments with competitive retail pricing. the important shift is that pc's caught up to mac's in terms of a/v reliability and compatibility, and then passed them.

here's how i would delineate the timeline:

pre 1996: who cares

1996-98 windows starting to do multimedia, but tons of system issues

1998-2000 windows not bad for mulitimedia, still not as good as mac

2000: with release of windows 2000, windows is a legitimate stable multimedia os. also software content has grown to a robust community.

release of windows xp: windows completely mature multimedia platform, software choices vastly outstrip mac. mac at this time experiencing awkward transition from os 9 to os-x. the exploding online pc gaming community is helping pc's get even more entrenched and advanced in multimedia.

2005 mac "gets religion" that it needs to jump on the intel bandwagon, as neither ibm nor motorola have a compelling processor pipeline for them. meanwhile, pc users are feasting on a value-driven, stable multimedia platform with an astounding abundance of software at their disposal.

the near future: firewire royalties, ipods and final cut pro have been strong successes for mac. mac seems to be moving towards "bundled" solutions: final cut pro/mac, garage band/mac, and continuing to create "designer looking" computers. pc community seems perfectly happy where it's at, and is looking toward the 64-bit migration of 2006, when Microsoft will roll out it's next generation windows OS.

[cultureofgreed]

www.newegg.com

Do it yourself and save half of what you would spend.

[pomoone]

I don't know about the best place or if there even is one.. but these guys built me a monster www.monarchcomputers.com

Monarch computers is a great company. If you feel a little insecure about building your own rig you can have them assemble the motherboard/cpu and Ram and test if for you. They have always been a top notch company.

If you can build your own and research a little go with Newegg for your parts, great prices.

Alien Ware is also a great company, little to expensive

If you want the best for music you should stick with the good ol apple. After you build a killer rig you will only be a few bucks short of a Mac.


I have built so many PC’s over the years and I am still amazed at the build quality of the G5’s. I have a dual 2.5 I use just for Pro Tools. No offense, when it comes to music the Mac is still the Porsche and the PC is just a supped up VolksWagen.

Mac for music

PC for everything else

[jcschild]

Originally Posted by cultureofgreed

www.newegg.com

Do it yourself and save half of what you would spend.

1/2 my butt. (unless your talking Carillon, and a few other high priced builders)

200-500 depending on the system. comparing apples to apples!

no support, no warranty, no advanced RMA no one to call for help.

peace of mind IS important to some poeple.

Scott
ADK

[cultureofgreed]

Originally Posted by jcschild

1/2 my butt. (unless your talking Carillon, and a few other high priced builders)

200-500 depending on the system. comparing apples to apples!

no support, no warranty, no advanced RMA no one to call for help.

peace of mind IS important to some poeple.

Scott
ADK

Spec me your pre-built system and I list the components that are the same quality and just as fast for half the price.

Take me up on it.

What do you mean no support or warranty? All manufacturers have warranties, and the manufactures techs are 100 times better then the crappy tech support you get from know it all teenager at the pre-fab corner cutters (The manufactures did make the stuff, right?). I get advanced RMA from Newegg also. Please talk about what you know, not what you think.

The only piece of mind you get is spending too much money. This isn't rocket science.

[Diablo]

I just built a custom PT computer with all components bought from Newegg.com and it saved me a ton of money. But, it took a lot of time to order everything (I read every damn user comment on everything.. fans, cpu, etc..) and it took a lot of time to build. I had to order different fans twice, because some didn't fit the case, ordered 2 hard drives, then I decided I could fit 3 in the case, so I ordered another one....

But, if I had a business to run, I probably would just get a custom one built...

[ron florentine]

Thanks so far for all the input....have talked to a couple of places that specialize in audio custom computers.....very nice and informative.....but a bit pricey in my opinion......they want me to send out my audio cards and software and configure it there ,which is nice but I would rather just have a solid computer built for audio and I will take care of installing audio cards and software myself and be charged less money......At the prices I have been quoted I could get a pretty good Mac G5 for close to the same price.....which is a format that I have been with for many years and has giving me zero promblems.I dont feel confortable building my own but are there any places that just build a great audio computer and let you take care of the actual audio software/audio interface end yourself for less buckos.

Thanks again
Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio

[manning1]

ron...from a computer engr...
with greatest respect ...your worries are being blown out of propoirtion.
providing your current sound card (what is it ?) is windows compatible...
and your audio software is too..you shouldnt have problems ..just take your sound card to a local pc builder shop...
install it and run a recording/playback test...you should be fine.
try this confign....amd sempron 3000 with 1 gig ram, two 8 megabyte cache hard drives 7200 rpm...in my area are a 100 pc builders/mom and pops..who build systems for local companies like this...KEY POINT...install a power supply rated higher than what you need right now.
this stuff is not as difficult as you might think.
an amd system of this type goes max for around 500 bucks in my area...
unless you have a need for insane track counts/plug in counts...this system will do a lot of work for the money......as i said...run recording tests.
whats your sound card??.......also....it would help to know your max track/plug in counts.....a sempron i tried recently blew away a dual processor system....
eg...pitch shift a 3 minute vocal track took 4 seconds.
ps....if you have the bucks.....also try an amd 64 or dual amd 64 confign.....
but try the sempron first.....DONT UNDERESTIMATE IT !...run tests.
here are some typical amd pc prices here in canada....
http://www.canadasys.com/desktop.htm#AMD Desktops
so...you can compare with where you live.

[ron florentine]

Manning .........my software is going to be Nuendo 2 (I am going to test drive this early version first for a couple of months to make sure it works for me then spend the cash on the current version) .....my sound card is going to be a RME HDSP 96/52 PCI card.My track count should for the most part under 40 or so tracks ....maybe a little more or less.I have a ton of hardware compressors/reverb/fx/ but still what to use plug ins for some things ........will eventually want to add UAD or TC power core to the setup..Thanks for any insights.

Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio

[manning1]

ron....
then just take your rme to a local person (look in your yellow pages) plus your software.......or some local builders will let you rent a system for a week or so on good faith...if they know your a serious buyer...the sempron should handle 40 tracks......a amd 64 should be considered if you are going to be running crazy counts....or even opterons.
amd 64 systems in my area are as low as 600 bucks if one shops around.

i rarely reach 40 tracks ..the software i use does 48.....if i wanted more i would just mix to stereo....and import back and add 47 more tracks if my amd system ever puffed out.....but all my songs top out around 32 tracks max.
dont be so scared of this stuff.....the pc environment has changed a LOT over the past few years.....the areas where folks have problems is because they dont wish to spend the time to educate themselves properly.
its like when i was running 2 inch tape multitrack...i HAD to learn how to deal with machine usage.....in the same way you should pick up a xp win users guide....and familiarise yourself with basic housekeeping features.
i came across a user recently who didnt even want to learn how to use xp to copy a audio project for back up purposes onto another drive....which is as simple as it gets. ...this type of person is going to have difficulty whatever he/she uses.

if your REALLY SCARED of this move...then try this. little outage for you.
there are scores of amd used systems for sale..as power users upgrade to amd 64 etc ..some as low as 150 bucks...
like duron 1.3 ghz.....this TOO will do 40 tracks with the right drives.
maybe get one as a learner system for 150 bucks ...youll loose ...what...50 bucks
max if you sell it...install the rme in a pci slot plus your software...spend a few
weeks understanding the environment....then...go and splurge on a shiny new amd 64 once your comfortable in this new evil (i'm laughing..) dark world.
seriously ron....i cant remember when i last had a crash.....i would seriously consider this approach if your worried stiff about loosing big money.
just trying to help....

[Bosco]

Props to ADK thumbsup .....

Who the hell has time to sit and play with fans and sh!t inside a computer,it's bad enough we have to use the dam things let alone build um.

[stag]

Originally Posted by cultureofgreed

Spec me your pre-built system and I list the components that are the same quality and just as fast for half the price.

Take me up on it.

What do you mean no support or warranty? All manufacturers have warranties, and the manufactures techs are 100 times better then the crappy tech support you get from know it all teenager at the pre-fab corner cutters (The manufactures did make the stuff, right?). I get advanced RMA from Newegg also. Please talk about what you know, not what you think.

The only piece of mind you get is spending too much money. This isn't rocket science.

Some people like Scott like to put things together and know how to do it, if you have the time to browse some hardwareforums you´ll see lots of people complaining about hardware issues and incompatibilities.

Just to show you how ADK mean bussiness, as soon as the incompatibilities bettwen AMD X2, FW interfaces and UAD cards showed up, Scott shipped UAD a system with such specs to UAD, so they could figure out a solution, acording to UAD Tom Freeman, they did solve those issues, and UAD 4.0 will optimized for X2.

Can you put a price on such level of commitment???

I think ADK is the better PC assembler there is, with nice prices and eveything running optimized for audio from day one.

I recommend everyone to take a look at their site, even if don´t buy anything you´ll get an idea of what should be a DAW.

Bye,

[soultrane]

Originally Posted by Bosco

Who the hell has time to sit and play with fans and sh!t inside a computer,it's bad enough we have to use the dam things let alone build um.

agreed!

if u have never built a computer before, it's gonna take you 3 or 4 systems to get it right...

you'll be paranoid that you didn't put on the thermal paste right, that you're going to break the legs on the cpu fan, that you've got the master / slave drives on the right cables, etc. etc...

i've done it, i think 4 times now, and i will never do it again (i hope...)

an 18 year old kid who does it 4 times a day at the local comp shop has more experience than the musician who tries it once every 4 years...

[jcschild]

Originally Posted by cultureofgreed

Spec me your pre-built system and I list the components that are the same quality and just as fast for half the price.

Take me up on it.

What do you mean no support or warranty? All manufacturers have warranties, and the manufactures techs are 100 times better then the crappy tech support you get from know it all teenager at the pre-fab corner cutters (The manufactures did make the stuff, right?). I get advanced RMA from Newegg also. Please talk about what you know, not what you think.

The only piece of mind you get is spending too much money. This isn't rocket science.

1) go to my site pick a system and do apples to apples. dont forget to remove the express warranty. if youre so cock sure ,you take the time.

on a single processor system we have a $200 build fee and make about $100 from the parts if we are lucky. far far from your 1/2 price.


""""All manufacturers have warranties, and the manufactures techs are 100 times better then the crappy tech support you get from know it all teenager at the pre-fab corner cutters """"

dont make me laugh for one, until you let to at least second level support the majoirty of Maufacturers techs are totally clueless kinda like calling Dell for support. they read out of a manual and then tell you to use your recovery CD.
i cant tell you how many times we have had to educate a manufacturer on support.

second
if you call here you wont talk to an 18yr old for support. while i do have "box" builders they are NOT allowed to do support.
instead you will talk to someone who not only knows computer hardware but also knows (and does/owns a DAW)audio. not to mention all the little "gotchas" with varying chipsets etc.

try getting that from Newegg. and advanced warranty from newegg yeah dont get me started on that.

dude you are hilarious.


Scott
ADK

[jcschild]

Stag, Bosco,

thanks Guys!

sheesh Stag very nice props man thanks! and yea! UAD has a fix whoo hoo.


Ron,

yes we ask you to ship your RME card to us. While not required and you can load your own stuff if you want we prefer to delivery to you a complete turn key, even if you didnt buy the soft/hardware from us.
its called pre-emptive support. plus we dont charge for it.

and the price of the system i quoted you is far from a G5 with the same amount of storage and Ram.
not to mention the G5 would be far slower. (ducking now as the Mac guys start flinging stuff)

Scott
ADK

[cultureofgreed]

Originally Posted by stag

Just to show you how ADK mean bussiness, as soon as the incompatibilities bettwen AMD X2, FW interfaces and UAD cards showed up, Scott shipped UAD a system with such specs to UAD, so they could figure out a solution, acording to UAD Tom Freeman, they did solve those issues, and UAD 4.0 will optimized for X2.

Can you put a price on such level of commitment???

Yawn! How about the commitment to my wallet? Buying pre-built desktop PCs is a waste of money. A blind ******** monkey can put a PC together nowadays. The days of serious hardware problems in the PC world is long over, except the rare occassion it is always user error or malfunctioning hardware. The last 10 systems I put together I did without even having to open a manual. That not because I am smart, its because building a PC is pretty-much idiot proof.

[manning1]

well...i dont know scott...but in my opinion he is an extremely knowledgeable individual who obviously takes his business very seriously.
maybe for some...it is easy to build a system....but for many it is not.
in the computer industry ive worked in with large orgs ..buying millions of dollars of tech .....the make or buy turnkey decision often revolves around how much in house technical expertise there is. ....in large orgs with huge computer depts they still often buy turnkey for many different reasons....sometimes because they dont want to divert tech resources from other important projects.

one thing to be aware of in scotts favour....his orgs probably very close to what a lot of manufacturers of motherboards etc are doing in development....and always testing new approaches/configurations....so the buyer is getting the benefit of this fine tuning and research which can take quite a lot of resources.
for example scott is probably closer than most as to what is occurring in the realm of motherboard support for dual and quad processors.

[stag]

Originally Posted by cultureofgreed

Yawn! How about the commitment to my wallet? Buying pre-built desktop PCs is a waste of money. A blind ******** monkey can put a PC together nowadays. The days of serious hardware problems in the PC world is long over, except the rare occassion it is always user error or malfunctioning hardware. The last 10 systems I put together I did without even having to open a manual. That not because I am smart, its because building a PC is pretty-much idiot proof.

Oh yeah, you´re rigth even i assembled mine, but still i owe a lot to Scott for debugging it and free advise, and you know what: i trust a monkey better to assemble my PC than some "genius" knowitall.
The only advantage of buying a Mac is less hardware issues, the advantage of buying ADK, or other specialized DAW, is trust, peace of mind and tech support.
Now, rise yourself above the monkeys, take a stroll at ADKaudiopro.com and see
for yourself the prices and the attention to detail.

FYI at Cubase.net before someone had complain about the X2, UAD issues Scott
posted a warning to everyone who cared, I believe you are targeted to the more than often "i told you so" too than anybody i know across the Web.

I really regret ADK not being selled where i live, I know what a good DAW is, i know what commitment is and i know the level of knowlledge of them and i bow to it, cause such things have no price IMO. thumbsup

Bye.

[bobby yarrow]

Originally Posted by cultureofgreed

The days of serious hardware problems in the PC world is long over, except the rare occassion it is always user error or malfunctioning hardware. The last 10 systems I put together I did without even having to open a manual. That not because I am smart, its because building a PC is pretty-much idiot proof.

3 possibilities, assuming that you're being truthful:

1. You're lucky.

2. You know a lot more about this stuff than, say, a drunken monkey.

3. You don't actually do audio on your machines.

I have an office job, and when I need a computer there I walk into Comp-city or whatever and buy whatever's on sale. It's usually cheaper than buying components -- I figure on a complete system for under $500, and I don't have to bother putting it together. I wouldn't hesistate to build an office computer tho; virtually impossible to screw up with an office machine.

If you've recently built 10 PC's, then either you build DAW's for other people, or you're talking about the computers you put together for your office job, yeah?


Building and configuring a proper DAW is another story. I didn't buy my current DAW from ADK, but I didn't get it working up to par until I got free advice from Scott on a forum. Would have been well worth a couple hundred bucks to just have the thing work the first time. If I had any integrity, I'd paypal him some money right now . . .

Should everybody buy from a professional builder? Well, probably not, as there are folks who know a lot about this stuff. I will say that I know more about building and configuring PC's than anyone in my real-life acquaintance, and I regret building my own.

[Exmun]

I've built my last two computers... but I simply don't have the time to build my latest computer. Even when I put together the computer, there seemed to always be something to do to it. Always some tweak to make. I have noticed that all of this "teching" on the computer has taken me out of my creative space and I'm trying to take some of my creativity back.

Other than the peace of mind and tech support, there is a heavy creative price for building your own system. I'm not saying that it cannot or shouldn't be done, just that for me I've got better things to do with my time.

[cultureofgreed]

Originally Posted by bobby yarrow

3 possibilities, assuming that you're being truthful:

1. You're lucky.

2. You know a lot more about this stuff than, say, a drunken monkey.

3. You don't actually do audio on your machines.

So what your saying is that you have Hardware conflicts on a PC that had its components manufactured within the last year? What conflicts? Your video card isn't working because your motherboard does not support it?

Look- I/Os like AGP, PCI, USB, IE1394 are all standardized now (PCI Express maybe an exception, but why use that in an audio machine?), and have been for quite awhile. Conflicts your talking about are software related. Assembling a PC is incrediabley easy, especially if you compare it to the machines in 1990s. Ever had to configure the DMA and IRQs on a ISA card via a dip switch? Now that can be a pain (MQX-32M). Those days are over.

There is little more to assembling a computer then lego blocks. The hardest part of the whole thing to grasp could be the Master/Slave jumpers on your IDE devices, besides that where is the complexity? Hooking up the power and reset switches can sometimes make you squint your eyes, but come on!

I just don't understand why people make building your own machine out to be some complex and difficult thing. Its not hard, and the A+ certified techs and manufacturers wont tell you its easy. They thrive off these misconceptions.

As for my gear, its not alot but it does the job.

[bobby yarrow]

Ok, we're closing in on your point, and I appreciate that it's easier now than it used to be. I reckon you know that there are certain videocards that are incompatible with certain soundcards, that some soundcards won't operate on some chipsets, that certain ram configurations - while ostensibly supported by certain MB's - don't actually work, and that which PCI slot you put your UAD in matters. Figure all that stuff out, and you've got hardware covered.

Even computer-savy folks can't even get XP to load onto a SATA drive without pulling their hair out. And it just gets worse from there.

If you imagine that I built my DAW without reaching in more than once to move jumpers on the MB, that's just not the case. These suckers are tricky, and even discounting your hyperbole I think it's fair to say that a lot of people would be better off paying a couple hundred bucks never to worry about their RAM voltage setting . . .

[djbrough]

Here's another vote for Monarch. They've built a wonderful workstation for me, and the customer service is good. They are looking into going with pro soundcards as well. If you call them and ask about specific oundcards, they'll fish them up for you.

ADK is good too. I have heard lots of good things about Scott and those guys. Scott is very knowledgable and helpful. Check out hsi posts on the nuendo forum.

[manning1]

bobby.....
the largest area where i see folks have problems are....
1. letting their kids use their daw to surf the net. ....and the kids download all sorts of stuff......ive had to clean up many pc's because of this.
once cleaned of junk...the audio daw side returned to normal.
2. with regards to video cards...the main problem is some often lock out the pci bus needed by a pci audio card......providing folks stay away from bus hogging cards they will be ok.
the best approach is to have nothing in pci slots except the cards needed for audio.....this is the most trouble free approach.
3. culture makes some fair points....a lot IS standard these days.....drives/memory etc etc. but what i'm finding in addition is people just wont take the time to educate themselves/couldnt be bothered....or sheer ennui.
whether mac or pc ....the more one understands the environment ....the more successfull people will be....if someone isnt willing to learn how to do the basics...
on mac or pc then maybe a standalone integrated yamaha type workstation might be better.....but EVEN THEN....understanding how it works/reading the manual is needed.....even a 2 inch multitrack assumes people will learn how to thread tape. frankly i cant understand folks who make a large investment in recording technology ....then couldnt be bothered to familiarise themselves with it.