Harrison Mixbus - Virtual Harrison Mixer plus full-featured DAW for OS X

[Coyoteous]

Maybe they should offer a "money back satisfaction guarantee," since there is no demo?

BTW, here's Ben's website: Ben Loftis - Software Development for Pro Audio - Home Page

[BBT]

Originally Posted by ProducerBoy

Doesn't actually have a new, fresh, or otherwise superior DAW sound. It doesn't harken back to anything. Just a cool console-ish design (which I really, really like), and a bunch of "hyperbole."

So, you have been working on a lot of DAWs that use libardour?

Trust me, it's solid, and as good as it gets.

Of course, GIGO applies.

[BBT]

So, the request for a demo is great...

I'm just wondering, what should be a convincing demo?

Mixbus VS

• Harrison Xdubber
• Harrison Trion
• Other digital mixers
• Similar DAW

I propose I simple project with no more than 8 tracks for simplicity, and a fixed timeframe in which to do the same mix, using the same engineer.

No mastering allowed, and mixes should be of comparative loudness.

Said engineer should have have a working knowledge of all the products tested, and should feel reasonably comfortable with all.

@BenLoftis: Would this be a possibility?

@Gearheads: Would this be satisfactory?

[bobsandifer]

I am opening a program for youth first time offender in Chattanooga and the continuing education program for high school students. All free of course and operated only by donations of the state and local business

This really seems like a great product to add to the curriculum. From what I see it offers the intern the ability to work with a familiar front end this still gives the users some decent DAW features.

I may be wrong but it would definitely like to talk to someone from Harrison concerning this product. I am kinda stuck with the purchase due to every mac box has snow leopard.

[piccazzo]

So, the request for a demo is great...
I'm just wondering, what should be a convincing demo?
Mixbus VS
Harrison Xdubber
Harrison Trion
Other digital mixers
Similar DAW
I propose I simple project with no more than 8 tracks for simplicity, and a fixed timeframe in which to do the same mix, using the same engineer.
No mastering allowed, and mixes should be of comparative loudness.
Said engineer should have have a working knowledge of all the products tested, and should feel reasonably comfortable with all.
@BenLoftis: Would this be a possibility?
@Gearheads: Would this be satisfactory?

I Think that the request was more for a Demoversion/Trialversion of the H.Mixbus so people can try it out and see if it fit´s the needs they have , and delivers the sound they want.

[BBT]

Originally Posted by piccazzo

I Think that the request was more for a Demoversion/Trialversion of the H.Mixbus so people can try it out and see if it fit´s the needs they have , and delivers the sound they want.

Are you thinking a random beeps version?

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by BBT

Are you thinking a random beeps version?

Maybe more like a two week full use demo version (like most audio software)...

[VibeSound]

I think this is a great idea and would love to see more daw's heading in a similar direction. Don't know what it is but there's something intuitive about an analog console layout inside a daw. What I would like to see implemented would be as others have said full automatic delay compensation including external inserts and be able to use au/or other plugins as you normally would use outboard in the analogue domain couple with the other standard features of todays daws, and have the sequencer/editing side go hand in hand with it sort of like the way a tape machine works with a console. I must say when someone implements this in a way that couples itb and analogue work flow properly with great sounding channel strips I would jump on board. I like the way this could head with further development. As said before would be great if it could be integrated into the users daw of choice.

Is it maybe time for the major daw developers to jump on this wagon?

Over all I think it's a great concept.

Look forward to seeing future development.

[Jules]

I hope this will be on display at the AES!

I want to check it out.

I wonder if Bruce Swedien has had his hands on it yet?

[Bob Yordan]

Yay, great timing, bought a Mac Pro one week ago.

[Nowak]

Great, spring another 80bucks and buy Mixbus.

Don't even think about it......

I've not ever witnessed such bizarre scrutiny on such a bargain.

[H-Rezz]

Well i bought it on a whim , and with the hour i've had to play with it i think it sounds very smooth and dare i say quite a____g . I think this was a bold move by Harrison and i look forward to doing a full mix on it once i learn the program better, the channel eq's and comp's sound great(not to mention handy as hell), the tap sat on the buss's and master are a nice touch and sound nice and subtle, I work in Logic and like the fact that i can move a mix to something like this even just for the vibe, the fact that i like the way it sounds makes it even easier of a choice and all for 80bucks, i think it's a steal. The most exciting thing for me is the console layout ..

As already pointed out, on my 24inch monitor the channelstrips are too small and cause eye strain, they definately need to be bigger .....

A dedicated 8 channel control surface also would be great just a suggestion ....

[Leon EA]

Soooo...is it applying processing on each bus and does it sum like all the other DAWs do? Or is the actual summing done by an algorithm to make it smell like a real Harisson console?

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea. I absolutely respect Harisson, the Ardour project and tools like Jack are great solutions. I also respect the fact that this came out of personal needs.

But you have a serious communication issue, with various people coming in here to give half answers - which seems not enough.

Right now it looks like we get software channel strips in mixer look. A DAW and a routing tool to go with it, both already separately available for free. Mac only.

If you can answer my question above, and communicate that package more clearly, a lot of confusion will be avoided.

I wish you good luck with the product though. Almost too bad I only use PC's for recording & mixing.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by Leon EA

Soooo...is it applying processing on each bus and does it sum like all the other DAWs do? Or is the actual summing done by an algorithm to make it smell like a real Harisson console?

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea. I absolutely respect Harisson, the Ardour project and tools like Jack are great solutions. I also respect the fact that this came out of personal needs.

But you have a serious communication issue, with various people coming in here to give half answers - which seems not enough.

Right now it looks like we get software channel strips in mixer look. A DAW and a routing tool to go with it, both already separately available for free. Mac only.

If you can answer my question above, and communicate that package more clearly, a lot of confusion will be avoided.

I wish you good luck with the product though. Almost too bad I only use PC's for recording & mixing.

Thats what I am saying all the time.... it is not a matter of the product we do not know the product it is a matter of communication....

A famous console producer is doing a DAW.
What is the advantage for me as e.g. Logic user?

I do not understand why we have another except that the layout follows a console more. This is OK and I like the idea.

For example Ardour I tried to use it once.
And using it ...its workflow was not that great!!
There was no reason for me to think about it to use it as my main DAW.

Time will tell us if this is next great DAW.
But I guess at the moment it is just a DAW (Ardour) with a nice facelift and some great tools from some great digital consoles.

[Nowak]

I don't understand why people expect a company to go into depths about their technology..

Have you all honestly done that with every piece of software you've bought before?

Software that's cost hundreds or thousands of dollars?

Call Waves, ask them about their internal workings in their DSP, same goes with URS, Brainworx, SPL.

Send an email off the Apple, ask them about summing Logic..

For gods sakes people, stop worrying about it all, make music.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by Nowak

I don't understand why people expect a company to go into depths about their technology..

Have you all honestly done that with every piece of software you've bought before?

Software that's cost hundreds or thousands of dollars?

Call Waves, ask them about their internal workings in their DSP, same goes with URS, Brainworx, SPL.

Send an email off the Apple, ask them about summing Logic..

For gods sakes people, stop worrying about it all, make music.

Absolutely. A lot of us have, and those companies freely discuss information similar to what is being asked here. In fact, many companies have white papers available discussing such things in great detail.

It is not abnormal and it is information that is very pertinent to the value of the product.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by Nowak

I don't understand why people expect a company to go into depths about their technology..

Have you all honestly done that with every piece of software you've bought before?

Software that's cost hundreds or thousands of dollars?

Call Waves, ask them about their internal workings in their DSP, same goes with URS, Brainworx, SPL.

Send an email off the Apple, ask them about summing Logic..

For gods sakes people, stop worrying about it all, make music.

tutt
Someone wants me to change the DAW.
This means to change my workflow this matters for me.

It is OK to ask why I should change my DAW?

No heck just communicate it right.

[Nowak]

Nobody's asking you to change DAWs

Please, point me in the direction of these white papers.....

Did you request similar info from your current DAW's vendor?

[BBT]

Yahoo! Groups Jackosx 0.83 beta 4

Some info for the unfortunate few that are stuck with software to try and a snowy leopard blocking the way...

[Leon EA]

Originally Posted by Nowak

I don't understand why people expect a company to go into depths about their technology..

Have you all honestly done that with every piece of software you've bought before?

Software that's cost hundreds or thousands of dollars?

Call Waves, ask them about their internal workings in their DSP, same goes with URS, Brainworx, SPL.

Send an email off the Apple, ask them about summing Logic..

For gods sakes people, stop worrying about it all, make music.

Usually, the more it costs, the more questions you will get.
Also, we're here on Gearslutz, where every bit and sample and picovolt is analyzed, dismantled, crushed, cut up, sniffed and spit out. All to conclude it doesn't really null at -102,74dBFS.

But in this case it is also their marketing text that bloats something, but in explanations seems to be not quite what the marketing text claims.

Seriously, whether it does have a special summing algo or not doesn't matter to me. I hope it becomes available on the PC either as a good sounding channel strip or as a good sounding mix bus. And then it could cost some more as well.

On another note: Could Rewire work? Wrong direction in the current hosts I guess? It could provide automation as well.

[Coyoteous]

As has been pointed out, this is the statement that is most problematic:

"Traditional DAW mixers, designed by companies with no pedigree in music mixing, all suffer from well-known flaws. Harrison eliminated these flaws by completely redesigning the DAW's internal mixing engine and applying proprietary algorithms."

I think it's been well established that most "unbroken" mix engines null with one another with the appropriate settings. Is Mixbus' summing the same as Ardour or different? Are either or both standard floating point summing buses? How do the answers to these questions reconcile with the above quote?

[Nowak]

If it was Behringer, I would understand the cynicism.

[BBT]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

No heck just communicate it right.

Yes, this is very important.

We should also consider that this is a company that never had to do the "hard sell" thing before, and probably will never have to. Harrison has consoles. People want them. They go there and get them.

Mixbus is also not a bread and butter project for them, if we look at the big picture. Its basically a favour they are doing those that want it, because you get something you would otherwise not be able to afford. I think the only mistake they made was to price it too low.

I also don't see where they are asking you to change your DAW. tutt

[Leon EA]

Originally Posted by Nowak

If it was Behringer, I would understand the cynicism.

So you blindly buy stuff just because it has a brand on it and the marketing text sounds appealing?

[Nowak]

Definately not, but at 80 bucks it's an each way bet.

And, Harrison don't release shit so I was confident that it would do as claimed.

And guess what

It does.

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

tutt
Someone wants me to change the DAW.
This means to change my workflow this matters for me.

It is OK to ask why I should change my DAW?

No heck just communicate it right.

IMO you should be looking at the Harrison Mixbus not as a means of replacing Logic but as a mix platform, when you conceive/record/produce everything in Logic wouldn't it be nice to get away from it for the mix, not because it's not capable of great mixes but purely for a change of scenery which can further inspire creativity, i think trying to keep music production from being stale is always a good thing, in the old day's you would do you tracks at home on whatever DAW and bring it to a studio to mix which kept things fresh and interesting . I would look at the Harrison Mixbus much the same way and i also use and love Logic . The console layout for me truly is great and i was hoping a reputable company would do it, and Harrison did , i think they could still improve on it in future updates .....

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Nowak

If it was Behringer, I would understand the cynicism.

it has the behringer price tag - that must at least be raising peoples suspicions.

Hype is used so often in marketing for software products - and calling anything 'analogue' is an old trick now for generating sales. Just look at the market where yet another vintage emulation (such as Cytomic Glue) can cause a huge stir and sales - when something genueinely novel and amazing (such a ProAudio DSM) can make a relatively small impact.

Its no surprise people are cynical.

Originally Posted by H-Rezz

IMO you should be looking at the Harrison Mixbus not as a means of replacing Logic but as a mix platform, when you conceive/record/produce everything in Logic wouldn't it be nice to get away from it for the mix, not because it's not capable of great mixes but purely for a change of scenery which can further inspire creativity, i think trying to keep music production from being stale is always a good thing, in the old day's you would do you tracks at home on whatever DAW and bring it to a studio to mix which kept things fresh and interesting . I would look at the Harrison Mixbus much the same way and i also use and love Logic . The console layout for me truly is great and i was hoping a reputable company would do it, and Harrison did , i think they could still improve on it in future updates .....

I'll admit I considered picking it up purely for the change of scenry to see if it changed my mix process and produced different maybe better results...
However as yet Im not convinced that any of this 'proprietary digital harrison summing' really exists as different from standard DAW summing. I KNOW that the EQs wont sound better than Nebula EQs - and I doubt the compression will be better than the best 3rd party offerings currently.

HOWEVER - If I was a dude recording and mixing bands in his early stages - I'd pick it up for sure - great value.

[Leon EA]

Originally Posted by Nowak

Definately not, but at 80 bucks it's an each way bet.

And, Harrison don't release shit so I was confident that it would do as claimed.

And guess what

It does.

I don't care whether something costs 8€ or 8000€. I still check whether it does what I want it to do, with exceptions here and there of course. Since Harrison is introducing something supposedly new in the market, with a different concept, you will have people taking a closer look. If you want to dive in and take a little risk at not being satisfied, fine. 80€ is not that much. But don't judge others for trying to read the small print first. It's probably better for them and for Harrison, nobody is happy about moaning customers complaining all over and ruining a good brand.

I'm happy it works for you and hope others get the same satisfaction.

But, since you have it, maybe you can answer the big question for all curious people here: if you switch off all DSP in Mixbus, is the summing result actually different from when summing in Ardour? Check for a possible level change as well.

[Nowak]

I don't know.

All I do know is, I've mixed 2 songs today, in good time with terrific results.

That's all I care about.

[SWAN808]

and another comment

rather than writing it off - I am interested to hear from the developers about their summing technology and how it differs from what is available out there already.
I think in some areas of sales developers can expect to deliver their USP without too much evidence - however the whole point of Gearslutz is that it is populated by people who DO care about the details of their products and about the inner workings. Gearslutters I dont think are easily going to be won over by one line statements which appear unclear or uncorroborated - particularly ones that use the term 'analogue' when referring to a digital environment.

Im slightly concerned that following a few initial comments Ben has chosen to pipe down - as opposed to confront these issues. I do sympathise that it can be a bit of a time killer to get sucked into forum posting - but still - it only takes a little mediation usually to manage concerns...

Its a little mysterious where this product stands - is it up there with the quality for instance of an SSL Duende type DAW? The ridiculous thing is - I think the pricing is a hugely influential aspect of people relative perception of the product. If it was $1000 I wonder if people would be more welcoming? Priced at $80 I suspect people are assuming its low quality.