What do I need to buy to use an analog desk and have Pro Tool as a tape machine?

[funkymunk]

Hi All, I'm considering a few options as to what to buy for my recording setup and I've been considering using an analog desk after a chat with a guy who uses the same. I should've asked him this question but I forgot so here I am. Basically what do I need so I can record say a 4-5 piece rock group (maybe more later on if I need to) using an analog desk and Pro Tools as basically the tape machine. The guy I spoke to said the sound is a bit warmer and I'm interested in getting that sound. The desk would depend on personal preference and is probably better for another thread. Basically what I'd like to know is the equipment I'd need to get the correct signal path. Thanks.

[work2do]

a cheaper analog desk wont give u what u think.

do a few searches. this situation and question has been the foundation of gearslutz posts for a few years.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by konkaos

a cheaper analog desk wont give u what u think.

do a few searches. this situation and question has been the foundation of gearslutz posts for a few years.

[funkymunk]

I did a few searches and all I could find was debates on what analog desk to use. I may have missed it but what I'm after is the actual signal path of equipment I'd have to buy to set up what I'm after

[George Necola]

recording:

Microphones

to

preamps of Desk (the desk needs to have line out on each channel)


from lineouts of the desk

to

converter (AD converter) for each channel

to

protools


mixing:

from

protools

to

converter (DAconverter)

to

tape-returns of the console

(mixing all the channels now on the console to 2 channels i.e. masterbus..summing)

to

converter (2 channel AD)

to

protools (record on a new stereotrack)


ok?

[George Necola]

oh.. you might need a patchbay to connect any outboard gear to your desk.

that would mean

outboard gear

wired to

patchbay

from

patchbay front

to

inserts of the desk


use patchcables to patch the outboard gear to the individual inserts of your desk.

[funkymunk]

Thanks mate. Exactly what I was looking for. Cheers.

[funkymunk]

As far as D/A and A/D converters, could I use the M Audio Profire 2626 as this option. One of the specs I found below:

-functions as eight-channel mic pre/eight-channel A/D-D/A converter > standalone operation

Would this eliminate the need to buy seperate D/A and A/D converters. Will the profire do the whole job as converter from my mixer to Pro Tools.

[7rojo7]

You need 16 tracks to do Rock Band Basics, and you may want to mix certain things together to a buss to one (sn up-sn down) or to stereo tracks (toms, OH&hats) depending on the kit and the material. A 24 channel board with 8 busses should be enough. You would use the buss outs from a console to go to 'tape' in for the mixed tracks, A patch bay is essential if you want flexibility in your routing, basically the backside of all your gear shows up on the patch bay so you can reroute, If your setup is small you may decide to go with a fixed cabling.
Or with stand alone mic pres, mic> pre in> pre out>patch to eq or comp> out eq or comp (or both)> AD> 'tape'> DA> line in mixer
You would need to have enough DA to feed all of your tape retuns. For projects with a lot of overdubs etc... you would mix these in the box and bring them out through the DA as 'stems' to mono or stereo channels
there's even more to think about than just this.

[funkymunk]

This may seem like a silly question but I've never used patchbays so not sure exactly how they work. Couldn't I just connect the outboard equipment to the insert on the desk. Or is the patchbay part of the connectivity from desk to PC.

[George Necola]

Ou can get easily lost without patchbay. Workflow suffers a lot too. Imagine having 20pieces ofoutbard gear wired to the desk, then deciding that the compressor on channel 5 should be on channel 12 and your kutboard eq from channel 20 should sit on channel 3.. You can continue this for a long time. Everytime you need to repatch something, you stand up, walk around your board and try to find out what unit is on which channel... After a while you dont use any outboard, becauseits a drag.

And use good cables

[funkymunk]

No worries. And just going back to my above post, is it possible to use the profire 2626 as the hub for D/A and A/D in this setup.

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by funkymunk

No worries. And just going back to my above post, is it possible to use the profire 2626 as the hub for D/A and A/D in this setup.

Yes. You can use ANY I/O box with what whatever Software DAW you choose. In this scenario, theyll all work the same way.

IF you start adding a lot of outboard then youll want a patchbay. If your gonna do everything inside of Protools including your effects then the Mixing Console just becomes a summing box. Then the question becomes "Is my analog board degrading my sound over what my converters are giving me?

In your scenario Id probably just use the Mixer for routing and monitoring and then maybe do some parallel processing on the sub inserts to add to the main mix if needed

Have you thought about using a digital mixer?

[ohmicide]

Originally Posted by George Necola

recording:

Microphones

to

preamps of Desk (the desk needs to have line out on each channel)


from lineouts of the desk

to

converter (AD converter) for each channel

to

protools


mixing:

from

protools

to

converter (DAconverter)

to

tape-returns of the console

(mixing all the channels now on the console to 2 channels i.e. masterbus..summing)

to

converter (2 channel AD)

to

protools (record on a new stereotrack)


ok?

that was amazing

[funkymunk]

Thanks, can I add plug ins (chorus, reverb etc.) on Pro Tools, mix those in Pro Tools, and then mix the final sound on the desk.

[narcoman]

at the sort of budget I think you're implying you'd be MUCH better off ITB. Cheap desks are not nice......