NEW Speaker Cabinet Impulse Response Library - Guaranteed to Grow More Hair

[TheEqualizer]

Originally Posted by redwire

As the guy on the receiving end in the kerfuffle, I would like to let it go. I appreciate the support, but I don't think the negativity is good for anyone.

Like I said, while I don't agree with the way he did it, I understand why he freaked out, given how the timing of my release corresponded with a leak of his IRs to a crack site, so I think this whole thing is best relegated to the memory hole.

I'll let my posts on the subject stand for a little while, then I plan on deleting or editing them.

...and how 'bout that upcoming Supro Thunderbolt... huh?

Fair enough. It's your party.

[initialsBB]

Wow, that's a lot of impulses. Have you considered some kind of "greatest hits" collection? I would gladly pay, I don't know... $30 for a collection of one impulse from each cab from a single position with a 57 or something. Or one impulse of whatever sounds best from each. That amount of IRs is just overwhelming to me.

[redwire]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

Wow, that's a lot of impulses. Have you considered some kind of "greatest hits" collection? I would gladly pay, I don't know... $30 for a collection of one impulse from each cab from a single position with a 57 or something. Or one impulse of whatever sounds best from each. That amount of IRs is just overwhelming to me.

The problem is "whatever sounds best" is a relative concept. It depends on your amp, your guitar, what genre you play, what kinda mood you're in... and who knows what else. So, my greatest hits, will be a lot of other peoples' misses.

I think that's one major reason IRs have disappointed people in the past. They load it up, it doesn't sound right and there's no other options to make it work, so they give up, or apply dangerous amounts of EQ and it just starts sounding weird and filtered.

In most convolution plugins it's pretty easy to audition different mics and positions. So, one of our goals was to make it feel like you're sitting in the control room with an assistant in the live room moving the mic around the cabinet. Part of the fun is becoming familiar with each mic's unique characteristics and then figuring out how to manipulate them to your advantage. So it's not only an IR library it's a learning tool... it slices, it dices... it will also do your taxes.

Based on my experience, and yours may vary depending on the factors I noted above. A good place to start with just about every cab is a Royer on the cap at 1-2". Then you can dial in what you want from there.

Or with the other mics you can start:

421      CapEdge 0", CapOffAxis 0", Cone 3"
C414     CapEdge 2-3"
i5       Cone 0"
M160     Cap or CapEdge 0-2"
RE20     CapEdge 0"
KM84     CapEdge 2-3"
M7       CapEdge 1-2"
M8       CapEdge 1"
R121     Cap 1-2"
SM57     Cap Edge 0"-1", CapEdgeOffAxis 0" 
TAB57    Cap Edge 0", CapEdgeOffAxis 0" 
U87      Cap Edge 2-3"

A good general rule would be start of the Cap Edge at 1", then dial in from there. With the ribbons and the M8 you might start on the Cap. Play around, though, sometimes you'll be surprised what sounds good.

These won't always work right off the bat, but then you move the mic closer for more proximity effect and thus more low-end. This will balance out the highs you get from being closer to the cap or overwhelm them in some cases and skew the balance. Or, farther away to thin it out a little which works well for clean guitars and "bassy" amps.

Or, move the mic in towards the cap for more high-end, or more "definition" if it sounds too muddy, and out towards the edge of the cone if you're getting too much high end or it sounds too harsh.

Then there's the Off Axis positions. It will roll-off the highs and depending on the mic give it "grainy-er" sound. Sometimes if it sounds too bright, it'll work to leave the mic where it is and just flip it off axis.

Then there's the whole blending thing. The IRs are time-aligned so you can mix a 2" mic signal with a 0" mic signal and not have to worry too much about phase coherence. This is where the Room mics, the Back of Cab mics, and the mics that are placed farther back can be most useful in achieving a good 3D sound.

In short, if you use these guidelines and just start playing around you will quickly find many combinations that work for you and you will be happy, and in turn will make other people happy and everyone will like you, your dog will listen to you, and the abundance of the universe will flow in your direction.

[Ermz]

Originally Posted by redwire

I think that's one major reason IRs have disappointed people in the past. They load it up, it doesn't sound right and there's no other options to make it work, so they give up, or apply dangerous amounts of EQ and it just starts sounding weird and filtered.

That's certainly the camp I fit into, though I've had that experience with every single one of the hundred odd cab IRs I've tried. I simply find it's impossible to get a good quality professional tone via IRs of the likes of Nickelback's 'All the Right Reasons', Breaking Benjamin's 'Phobia', Killswitch Engage's 'End of Heartache', In Flames' 'Clayman' etc. etc. I've used a lot more EQ than is healthy to get IRs to sit cohesively in the mix, yet they never seem to sound alive unless you hide their flaws via quad tracking, or even more.

I think it's really fantastic about your work ethic. Phase aligning all these impulses was a great move and gives users way more tonal options. Do you have any plans to keep going, or expand your operation in case some more modern sampling technologies become readily available?

[redwire]

Originally Posted by Ermz

I think it's really fantastic about your work ethic. Phase aligning all these impulses was a great move and gives users way more tonal options. Do you have any plans to keep going, or expand your operation in case some more modern sampling technologies become readily available?

We're doing a Supro Thunderbolt, a Tweed Bassman Reissue with vintage '57 P10Qs, and a Marshall 1960B with T75s in October. Beyond that, we'll keep going but I'm not sure of the pace. It depends on how much interest there is. We'll adopt new technologies if they fit the bill.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by redwire

The problem is "whatever sounds best" is a relative concept. It depends on your amp, your guitar, what genre you play, what kinda mood you're in... and who knows what else. So, my greatest hits, will be a lot of other peoples' misses.

Well of course, but the same is also true of the cabs you chose, the mics you chose, where you placed them, etc. I was just looking at the $9.95 packs and thinking that rather than 600 impulses from one cab I'd rather have a few from each cab. But anyway, it's a minor quibble because the price is right.

[Tringboy]

Originally Posted by shadyru

Sound samples please!

FROM Scott Peterson

Red Wirez Custom IR's - Axe-FX heaven - The Gear Page

J



Fender Deluxe: Fender Deluxe Red Wirez Cabs.mp3

Vox AC30: Vox AC30 Red Wirez Cabs.mp3

Marshall JCM 800: JCM 800 Red Wirez Cabs.mp3

I used different IR's appropriate for each setup.

Combined the room and the Royer 121 at 6" at the cone.

I am DIGGING these IR's.
__________________
-- Scott Peterson

[ARIEL]

Here is another Guitar Amp Direct Box that would do the trick
Radial JDX Reactor reactive amplifier direct box - introduction

[Vocalvoodoo]

Originally Posted by Tringboy

Combined the room and the Royer 121 at 6" at the cone.

Those same Royer impulses sounds really nice with the GTR3 Neil Citron PlexitronCrunch amp too.

[majortom]

This thread has some pretty good demos that people have done using these IRs. Mostly in the metal vein:

Guitar Amp Modeling • View topic - NEW--Quality IRs--9 Cabs, 12 Mics, 8 Positions, 9 Distances

[redwire]

Just wanted to chime in on this resurrected thread and let y'all know that we just released some new cabinets:

'75 Hiwatt SE4123 with Fane 50-watt purples
Two Fender Twins (Jensen C12N and JBL D120Fs)
Marshall 1960B with T-75s
Marshall 1960 with JBL K120s
Marshall Basketweave with vintage G12Ls
Peavey 5150 with Sheffield 1200s
ENGL Pro with V30s
Supro Thunderbolt

and a G12H30 and EVM12L in our Speakerbox set.

Thanks.

[Tringboy]

I just got the Redwire AC30, wow... now we are really getting close, great work guys thanks. Like the new login on the site too, the more you buy the cheaper it is, im going for the Fender Deluxe next

[bee]

Anyone have more samples they would like to post?

[KingDiamond]

Originally Posted by Ermz

That's certainly the camp I fit into, though I've had that experience with every single one of the hundred odd cab IRs I've tried. I simply find it's impossible to get a good quality professional tone via IRs of the likes of Nickelback's 'All the Right Reasons', Breaking Benjamin's 'Phobia', Killswitch Engage's 'End of Heartache', In Flames' 'Clayman' etc. etc. I've used a lot more EQ than is healthy to get IRs to sit cohesively in the mix, yet they never seem to sound alive unless you hide their flaws via quad tracking, or even more.

I think it's really fantastic about your work ethic. Phase aligning all these impulses was a great move and gives users way more tonal options. Do you have any plans to keep going, or expand your operation in case some more modern sampling technologies become readily available?

I actually made a preset for Acustica Nebula called "KingsMesa4x12" and it has gotten some good reviews. The sound is different from a static impulse. A static impulse sounds compressed, but with the Nebula impulse it sounds like a mic'd cab because the sound seems to "move" more. It would be cool if Red Wire did some presets for Nebula. I own the Mesa cab impulses from Red Wire and I think they sound phenomenal. The fact that they are all in phase with each other is really helpful.

[roosterino]

Originally Posted by redwire

IMO, a Weber Mass might work for you, but please do your own research. I personally think it runs a little on the bright side as a DI using the line out.

I've been wanting to do this for a long time with my bad cat and fender amps (I don't have line outs). What's the cheapest way to do this right?

I will not appreciate added brightness.

How about amp-->Radial Jdx or Behringer ultra-G, with the Di out into the DAW, and the speaker out into a cheapo Weber Mini Mass back into the amp speaker?

I was also considering the H&K Red Box and the Palmer PDI-09, but I don't think you can bypass the cab emulator on those.

[redwire]

Running your amp speaker out --> Ultra-G --> Weber Mass can be a good chain and pretty inexpensive.

I did some objective testing with a Bryston 2B a few months back and found that if you use the Weber Mass as a dummy load and tap the line out on the Ultra-G you get a virtually flat response. Tapping the WeberMass rolls off the lows quite a bit, which lead me to my "runs on the bright side" comment.

Here's a graph of my test. The pink line is the original signal (pink noise). The yellow line is the Weber Mini Mass (treble on zero). The orange line which overlaps the pink one, is the Behringer Ultra-G (G100) into the Weber Mass (as a dummy load only):



Based on comments in this thread Weber may make you a Mass without a line out which should make it even cheaper.

Unfortunately, different tube amps react differently to different loads. I've done some testing using various tube amps of that and gotten mixed results. Here's a graph of an Emery Sound Microbaby with a 6V6 into a Jensen C12K (orange), a Weber Mass (yellow), and a Tube Town Tonehound (red):



The Tonehoud, near as I can tell, is just a couple of midrange speakers in a box. The missing low-end bump you could make up with EQ or mic placement. The high end roll off, I'm not so sure about. You human -- I mean US human are far more sensitive in this region. So, the jury's still out I guess.

[el cochino]

Here's how I do it:

I run the speaker outputs into a Sequis Motherload, which serves as speaker load, but most importantly, it has an fx loop that's befor the filter section. That means, I'm getting the signal from the speaker out in line level and usually run that into a Radial JDI and Chandler TG-2, before I hit the DAW. Sounds fantastic with the Redwire impulses and you also get the poweramp distortion.

That's a rather pricey solution and I think it's time somebody makes a cheap loadbox that converts the signal form the speaker output into line level.

[roosterino]

Originally Posted by redwire

Running your amp speaker out --> Ultra-G --> Weber Mass is a good chain and pretty inexpensive.

I did some objective testing with a Bryston 2B a few months back and found that if you use the Weber Mass as a dummy load and tap the line out on the Ultra-G you get a virtually flat response.

Thanks for the info. It sounds that for purely software cab sim purposes, there's little or no benefit to the more expensive SPL sequis palmer boxes. I'm wondering how your sims stack up against the hardware versions of those.

[redwire]

I have a Motherload and a Palmer PDI-03. I've never played with the SPL Transducer, so I can't comment on that.

Along with the speaker response, IRs capture reverb, cabinet resonance, bleed and comb filtering from the unmic'ed speakers, edge reflections, and lots of other nuances that the Palmer and Motherload were not designed to reproduce.

You have a much wider range of possibilities with IRs. Plus, they sound like the cabs and mics you're familiar with because they are sampled using the cabs and mics studios and players use everyday.

[roosterino]

Originally Posted by redwire

I have a Motherload and a Palmer PDI-03. I've never played with the SPL Transducer, so I can't comment on that.

Along with the speaker response, IRs capture reverb, cabinet resonance, bleed and comb filtering from the unmic'ed speakers, edge reflections, and lots of other nuances that the Palmer and Motherload were not designed to reproduce.

You have a much wider range of possibilities with IRs. Plus, they sound like the cabs and mics you're familiar with because they are sampled using the cabs and mics studios and players use everyday.

Well i'm very excited to try them. When are you getting your Convolvothingy up again on your site?

[redwire]

Son of ConvolvoBot! will be up and running in about a week :-)

In the meantime, feel free to give a couple of the Fender IRs a try. If you don't like them, I'll give you a refund.

[roosterino]

Originally Posted by redwire

Son of ConvolvoBot! will be up and running in about a week :-)

In the meantime, feel free to give a couple of the Fender IRs a try. If you don't like them, I'll give you a refund.

Fiddling with the Bigbox AC30 as we type. As compared to the guitar Rig's ac30, I like them. And not a little.

[Absolute]

Originally Posted by Ermz

That's certainly the camp I fit into, though I've had that experience with every single one of the hundred odd cab IRs I've tried. I simply find it's impossible to get a good quality professional tone via IRs of the likes of Nickelback's 'All the Right Reasons', Breaking Benjamin's 'Phobia', Killswitch Engage's 'End of Heartache', In Flames' 'Clayman' etc. etc. I've used a lot more EQ than is healthy to get IRs to sit cohesively in the mix, yet they never seem to sound alive unless you hide their flaws via quad tracking, or even more.

Dude..your being completely naive. Thats OK..I think its great to shoot real high.

But there are thousands of Mix engineers with awesome records under their belts that cant get those sounds with the same amps and cabs used in those recordings. I know there are a lot of decent pretend mixes on forums like sneap and HC where guys are desperately searching for the right formula but what I hear is totally amateur. The tell tale sign is their pink noise high end. Total static masquerading as a clean EQ professional boost.

Its almost like I have to laugh at the sheer adorableness of your wishes. Do you think for one moment that those sounds are stock amp sounds? That its their real cabinets that makes them sound good?

Goodness gracious..if it was that everyone would have that sound on their record. Its an incredibly hyped, often multiamp and multicab, severely limited, highs boosted with 10,000 dollar EQ's, compulsively edited, and meticulously blended with golden ears. In short--it aint the cab.

I've been doing this a freakin long time. Long enough to have John Bonham throw me a drumstick off stage and those guitar tones have been unheard of till this century--even though the amps used have been around long before them.

So I ask..why havnt you heard that before if its about the cabinet? Its about EARS and techniques. Its the person listening and turning the dials. They're much better than you. They're better at hearing guitar sounds than 90% of the M. E.s around. Thats how its done. Thats why the same guys are mixing all these records. Impulses dont mean shit in the equation. Its a blended, multilayered sound and anything that an impulse is missing doesnt amount to squat shit. BTW(as someone else suggested Nebula)Nebula, certainly, is not going to get you Randy Staubs guitar mix. What it would do wouldnt even touch .01% of the mojo needed.

I can get incredibly close to to those guitar sounds but only because I've been mixing guitars forever and trust me, your barking up the wrong tree. Its about You-- addressing what your hearing at every stage in the process-- from recording to mixing, hearing all the elements that make up the frequency spectrum in each given track and meshing them into one cohesive sound. Thats the art--not Nebula.

I know a lot of guys, even on GS, say...yeah, just stick a mic in front of a 1x12 and it will sound huge. The assertion being that Nickleback or BB can easily be done by them. Yeah right. That sound is on very few records for a reason--Its real hard to get. Dont dont get down if you havnt nailed it because only a few guys have.

[spinal]

Hi Redwire,

I'm using impulse right now with the preamp lineout of my combo amp.
I would like to use the power amp as well and want to be as quite as possible when recording.

I saw the tube town tone hound, and I saw in your post that you tried one. Can you tell me if it's a better alternative than using a dummy load (attenuator) such as weber mass (even with behringer DI as you suggested) or any other attenuator?
Is it completely quiet when used with a cranked amp?

Moreover, I would like to know on the 2nd frequency response I see the Mass is far from the Jensen C12K after 1KHz. Did you used the behringer DI here too?

Thanks,

[redwire]

With tube amps the tone hound is better than the Weber Mass. Tube amps have a much higher output impedance than solid state power amps, so the frequency response of the speaker starts to look like its impedance curve, which is why you get the low-end bump and rising upper-mids. The tonehound does a much better job of "reproducing" this behavior.

I did use the Weber with the Behringer DI in the second test. To be fair to the Weber, there is a treble boost switch that would counteract the high-end roll-off to a degree. I have not tried it, though.

The tonehound is not silent. With low wattage amps (<10 watts), it's barely audible. With an AC30, it sounds like someone strumming acoustic guitar in the room. I stick mine in the closet, so the bleed does not affect my placement and EQ decisions. It's the best of all the dummy loads I've tried, so far, which is quite a few.

[bryan k]

i absolutely LOVE these impulses!

i use a real cheap ART Passive DI Box between my head and cab, and use the 2nd 'outs" on the D/I to run into my computer for the impulse.

heres a sample song using the 4x12 Engl v30s impluses from redwirez. All the guitars (clean/dirty rhythms as well as lead solo) got the impulse treatment.

-Sm57 cap edge -0"
-U87 cap center - 3"
(blended 50/50)

Listen here

**its a mix only, so it is a bit low on volume, has not yet been mastered.**

[jeremy.c.]

I'm just going to give a loving little bump to the redwirez team, because I bought the entire collection a week ago (ridiculously cheap for what you get) and when I was playing with them over the weekend I was absolutely floored!
I bought an axe-fx and while the cab models sound pretty good, there was just something missing. The redwirez collection fills in that missing part and more! I haven't committed any sounds to a song as yet, but just playing around, flipping between a Bogner Uber or Mesa Recto head with any combo of Soldano or UberKab V30s with different mics and distances then jumping to the Blue Webers with room mics and a Vox amp sim was just flooring me, making playing an amp sim so much fun again.

As mentioned the choices are almost over whelming so I generally went to an SM57 at 1" on the cap or cap edge and then played with ribbons and condensers and MD421s all over the room. I can see myself picking a set of go-to cabs for future use, but the amount of flexibility I was handed is truly mind boggling. AND THEY'RE PHASE ALIGNED!!! Wooooooooooooooohoooooooooooo!
okay, I'll stop gushing.

[henge]

Originally Posted by Absolute

Dude..your being completely naive. Thats OK..I think its great to shoot real high.

But there are thousands of Mix engineers with awesome records under their belts that cant get those sounds with the same amps and cabs used in those recordings. I know there are a lot of decent pretend mixes on forums like sneap and HC where guys are desperately searching for the right formula but what I hear is totally amateur. The tell tale sign is their pink noise high end. Total static masquerading as a clean EQ professional boost.

Its almost like I have to laugh at the sheer adorableness of your wishes. Do you think for one moment that those sounds are stock amp sounds? That its their real cabinets that makes them sound good?

Goodness gracious..if it was that everyone would have that sound on their record. Its an incredibly hyped, often multiamp and multicab, severely limited, highs boosted with 10,000 dollar EQ's, compulsively edited, and meticulously blended with golden ears. In short--it aint the cab.

I've been doing this a freakin long time. Long enough to have John Bonham throw me a drumstick off stage and those guitar tones have been unheard of till this century--even though the amps used have been around long before them.

So I ask..why havnt you heard that before if its about the cabinet? Its about EARS and techniques. Its the person listening and turning the dials. They're much better than you. They're better at hearing guitar sounds than 90% of the M. E.s around. Thats how its done. Thats why the same guys are mixing all these records. Impulses dont mean shit in the equation. Its a blended, multilayered sound and anything that an impulse is missing doesnt amount to squat shit. BTW(as someone else suggested Nebula)Nebula, certainly, is not going to get you Randy Staubs guitar mix. What it would do wouldnt even touch .01% of the mojo needed.

I can get incredibly close to to those guitar sounds but only because I've been mixing guitars forever and trust me, your barking up the wrong tree. Its about You-- addressing what your hearing at every stage in the process-- from recording to mixing, hearing all the elements that make up the frequency spectrum in each given track and meshing them into one cohesive sound. Thats the art--not Nebula.

I know a lot of guys, even on GS, say...yeah, just stick a mic in front of a 1x12 and it will sound huge. The assertion being that Nickleback or BB can easily be done by them. Yeah right. That sound is on very few records for a reason--Its real hard to get. Dont dont get down if you havnt nailed it because only a few guys have.

Great post!

[henge]

I'm not shy to ask a stupid question! Can I load these impulses into Reverberate ( a convo verb ) and then insert Reverberate on a guitar track? Edit. Nevermind, just reviewed your compatibility list!

[wakestyle]

Originally Posted by redwire

Thanks for your interest. I'll try my best to answer your questions.

We also had high hopes for the next-gen technology, as well. We played around with Nebula and Volterra kernels when we first started this project and the latency in real time use, the CPU hit and the time it takes to sample a single point ruled it out. Perhaps a few years from now, the technology will have advanced sufficiently, but we needed a solution today.

great product here, +1 to see if you can do something for nebula in high res I'd buy it!