Logic 9: Not enough free memory bug!!!

[Firechild]

Ok, as already discussed there is an annoying "memory getting low" box at approx 2.0 Gb RAM usage in logic 9 but you can just continue working but then at 2.30 Gb RAM usage this box comes up and you have to quit Logic ! Why! Any workaround?

[yore]

No, it is a new warning sign that comes with Logic 9 :-( It means that the 4 GB limit is neear. Logic 8 didn't show this sign but the song could become corrupted.

[Firechild]

Originally Posted by yore

No, it is a new warning sign that comes with Logic 9 :-( It means that the 4 GB limit is neear. Logic 8 didn't show this sign but the song could become corrupted.

The problem is that there must be some Apple human programming error because the warning boxes comes around 2 Gb not 4 Gb ( in practice the limit is just above 3 Gb but not just only above 2Gb as in Logic 9...)

[StaticStudios]

Yes this worries me as I have not yet encountered this bug. Now im just waiting for it.

Is there anything particular to this warning? Setups, VIs, Plugins, MACs.

[JH4music]

Originally Posted by Firechild

The problem is that there must be some Apple human programming error because the warning boxes comes around 2 Gb not 4 Gb ( in practice the limit is just above 3 Gb but not just only above 2Gb as in Logic 9...)

I have never been able to get past about 2300MB of RAM usage in Logic 8. At least they put in a warning for you in version 9.

While there are the obvious workarounds of running standalone versions of your plugins to access the rest of your RAM, I hope that Snow Leopard takes care of this problem.

[Dubster]

Just wondering, are you guys reporting this and other issues to Apple via the feedback form and/or the 90 days of free phone support (I'm fairly sure they still offer that on Logic, but I hadn't checked)? I know from an earlier driver issue that Line 6 had run into a few months back (something about the fragmentation/allocation of ram?) that there are some issues that would be encountered only on machines with 4gb of memory or more and go unnoticed on machines with less memory, so I hope everyone experiencing RAM issues is reporting them and specifying how much RAM they have. I should note that such issues are not inevitable (once Line 6 was able to reproduce them, they were able to fix the driver) but just may go unnoticed or may not be able to be reproduced without full specs from the end users having the issues. I haven't installed 9 on my desktop and probably won't until the first round of bug fixes, but if end users don't report this issue thoroughly to Apple, I'm afraid it may not be one of the main issues addressed in the first post-release update. Hope everyone reports it!

[YUGA]

You guys are talking about "real memory", right?

Logic shuts down when it attempts to use 4GB or more of virtual memory regardless of the size of real memory used. Usually 2GB to 3GB of real memory is used when it uses 4GB of virtual memory. Lots of people don't understand it and argue that the limit is not actually 4GB. Be it real or virtual, any 32-bit application cannot access more than 4GB of memory.

Snow Leopard won't fix this problem unless Apple releases a 64-bit version of Logic.

[yore]

That is my understanding also. We need Logic to be 64 bit but doesn't that mean then that also the plug ins have to be 64 bit ?

[Fredrik]

There is a difference between 64bit addressing and using 64bit float for audio. The addressing is being dealt with by the os, that is the maximum size of memory that can be addressed by one program.

[Firechild]

Originally Posted by YUGA

You guys are talking about "real memory", right?

Logic shuts down when it attempts to use 4GB or more of virtual memory regardless of the size of real memory used. Usually 2GB to 3GB of real memory is used when it uses 4GB of virtual memory. Lots of people don't understand it and argue that the limit is not actually 4GB. Be it real or virtual, any 32-bit application cannot access more than 4GB of memory.

Snow Leopard won't fix this problem unless Apple releases a 64-bit version of Logic.

Yes, I´m talking about real memory, I didn´t know that it was Virtual memory that has the 4 Gb limit. It is ridiculous low. I am using Mainstage 2 to offload bigger orchestral sample libraries. Hmm, you mean that it was the same problem with Logic 8.

[Nicholas Varley]

You're using Mainstage on the same machine as Logic or on a seperate one ?

['Ave it!]

I am getting the same memory warnings.

It is definitely happening at a much earlier point than in Logic 8. Same sytem, no other changes apart from the Logic update, but 9 doesn't seem to be able to handle anywhere near the same amount of plugs/audio/video.

I think the memory usage implementation doesn't seem to be as good.

Just been on the Apple forum on the same sort of thread. There are lot's of folks saying the same thing - That Logic 8 can handle bigger projects than 9. One guy has made the assertion that Logic 9 uses 0.6gb more memory to run the basic program than L8 did. If this is true then it could be the cause of the frustration.

For now on bigger projects or opening older large projects I'm going to have to keep with L8 until this is fixed. What a shame.

Spike

[yore]

I think the warning comes early enough so that you can avoid crashing your song and maybe corrupting it. As Logic's own EXS-24 can get around this problem, it should be possible to other plug ins to also use the same method. Let's hope that audio drives, plug in makers and Apple get to the real 64-bit level soon though I think my jaw will drop if this happens in less than a year. I hope I'm totally wrong :-)

[Firechild]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Varley

You're using Mainstage on the same machine as Logic or on a seperate one ?

Same machine.

['Ave it!]

Just a quick update:

After installing Snow Leopard Logic 9 now seems to be handling/loading those larger projects. I might still get the odd 'memory limit close' warning, but that's all I get - just a warning - it doesn't quit, or say it's going to do so...

Yippee!

['Ave it!]

In addition to the ESX24, the Native instruments Kontakt 3.5 sampler and sample player can also address memory outside of Logic too...

[audiomichael]

I'm gonna up the ante here. Worse than the "Not Enough Free Memory" error, is the "Sorry, cannot save your session" error. It happens when you're close or past the Free Memory safe-zone, and you can still keep working, but not actually save anything you're doing...AND you can potentially crash at any time because you're low on free memory... WOW... that's great.

My workaround is to bounce some VI's to disk and use the audio files, or tracks with lots of plugins will get bounced. The one saving grace is that now with L9, I can go back to an older session to re-import a track into my session if I need to tweak the sound later.

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by 'Ave it!

...That Logic 8 can handle bigger projects than 9. One guy has made the assertion that Logic 9 uses 0.6gb more memory to run the basic program than L8 did. If this is true then it could be the cause of the frustration.

Actually I found that Logic 7 handled bigger projects than L8 too. I guess if each program update is using more RAM then it makes sense. It DOESN'T make sense from "update" point of view. As a result, when I open big sessions from L7 & L8 on my L9, I struggle with lots of crashes before I can get into the session stably.

[Firechild]

EXS24 in Logic 9 has new Virtual Memory options!
Open an EXS24 instance, click Options - Virtual Memory and make sure the "active box" is checked AND finally and most important make sure the the new External Memory Area says "On, optimized for more AU SI instances. Now all your EXS24 RAM will take place outside the Logic 9 app in a much better way than in Logic 8!

Edit: unforunately it seems that you lose a lot of performance with this setting...Benchmarkscore went down from 70 to 25 tracks...

[Ashermusic]

Originally Posted by audiomichael

I'm gonna up the ante here. Worse than the "Not Enough Free Memory" error, is the "Sorry, cannot save your session" error. It happens when you're close or past the Free Memory safe-zone, and you can still keep working, but not actually save anything you're doing...AND you can potentially crash at any time because you're low on free memory... WOW... that's great.

My workaround is to bounce some VI's to disk and use the audio files, or tracks with lots of plugins will get bounced. The one saving grace is that now with L9, I can go back to an older session to re-import a track into my session if I need to tweak the sound later.

There is no such thing as a "session" in Logic, they are projects. "Session" ia a PT thing.

[poshook]

We can only wait and look at our Mac Pros for $$$

Or install Windows 7 64-bit with Cubase 5

[Firechild]

Logic 9 -- Do you get the Memory-Too-Low-Messages?

This subject is covered deeper here.

[ultrasound6]

Hey Jay Asher - I bought a brand new Lamborghini the other day - I was so excited, I wanted to just drive it straight out of the showroom, however the salesman contained me somewhat, and then proceeded to warn me of some potential issues.
He explained that whilst this was a very impressive looking beast with exceptional specs, that, until the next model contains 64 bit solar panels, certain compromises must be made. He explained that, if the CD stacker has more than two CD's in it, that I was not to use the indicators, otherwise the motor was likely to shut down, even though the company were considerate enough to give one a warning message, displayed on the dash. Similarly, he continued, one cannot drive the car at night, that is if one wants to change gears. Reluctantly, I still went ahead with the purchase, with the initial sales pitch and hype being far too convincing for me to do otherwise ..................

[quincyg]

Originally Posted by Ashermusic

There is no such thing as a "session" in Logic, they are projects. "Session" ia a PT thing.

[Ashermusic]

Originally Posted by ultrasound6

Hey Jay Asher - I bought a brand new Lamborghini the other day - I was so excited, I wanted to just drive it straight out of the showroom, however the salesman contained me somewhat, and then proceeded to warn me of some potential issues.
He explained that whilst this was a very impressive looking beast with exceptional specs, that, until the next model contains 64 bit solar panels, certain compromises must be made. He explained that, if the CD stacker has more than two CD's in it, that I was not to use the indicators, otherwise the motor was likely to shut down, even though the company were considerate enough to give one a warning message, displayed on the dash. Similarly, he continued, one cannot drive the car at night, that is if one wants to change gears. Reluctantly, I still went ahead with the purchase, with the initial sales pitch and hype being far too convincing for me to do otherwise ..................

Actually the analogy is this: I bought a brand new Lamborghini the other day - I was so excited, I wanted to just drive it straight out of the showroom, however the salesman contained me somewhat, and then proceeded to warn me of some potential issues.

He explained that whilst this was a very impressive looking beast with exceptional specs and was capable of going 200 miles an hourand can turn on a dime, if I try to drive it that fast and take hairpin curves I will get a speeding ticket, probably lose control of the car, crash into other cars, die, and take some innocent people with me.

In short, he explained to me that one cannot simply drive it mindlessly. At this point in time , if you wish to use huge RAM-intensive software instruments/libraries on a Mac, the same is true with Logic Pro 9.

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by Ashermusic

Actually the analogy is this: I bought a brand new Lamborghini the other day - I was so excited, I wanted to just drive it straight out of the showroom, however the salesman contained me somewhat, and then proceeded to warn me of some potential issues.

He explained that whilst this was a very impressive looking beast with exceptional specs and was capable of going 200 miles an hourand can turn on a dime, if I try to drive it that fast and take hairpin curves I will get a speeding ticket, probably lose control of the car, crash into other cars, die, and take some innocent people with me.

In short, he explained to me that one cannot simply drive it mindlessly. At this point in time , if you wish to use huge RAM-intensive software instruments/libraries on a Mac, the same is true with Logic Pro 9.

Actually the guy who bought the Lamborghini couldnt get the door to open since he kept pushing the SESSION button on the remote instead of PROJECT

Getting a little picky there Mr. Jay

They all mean the same thing; a master file that is full of bugs and errors

Yes, lets all buy the Lamborghini so we can drive it at 25mph with our foot on the brake pedal. Come on Jay, there no excuse for this from Apple and YOU know it

[ultrasound6]

Here, here Mr. Shanabit - the shit don't work ! But Jay, you sound like a reasonable and intelligent guy, and I don't want to get all narky and prolong my sarcastic analogies, since it is the dawning of a fresh new decade - but your faithful allegiance with Logic is getting a bit out of hand. Forget the 32 v 64 bit issues, I would just love it, if - when every time I record a simple midi part, (with no plugs or audio), that Logic 9 wouldn't copy the freakin' thing over one hundred times by automatically ticking the loop box in the inspector. Another issue is when I undo a simple midi take, the beast freezes and thinks about it for around 3 secs, although this seems like a ram thing. These are just two of many little anomalies that shit me to tears every time I work - and I don't expect too much from my machine by bogging it down with heaps of plugs, (particularly 3rd party ones), since my beginnings were on a humble Atari and Tascam DA 88. In summary, it would be nice if software developers were more responsible prior to releasing their "wonderful, mind boggling, wash the dishes" type product.
Who cares about "Flex time" and "Amp models", (which are amazing BTW), when basic midi flaws are abundant. Having said all that though, Happy New Year ;-)
(Quad Core - 16 GB Ram with P Tools HD box) ULTRASOUND6.COM | Al Harding

[valis]

I can't say I've had similar issues when using Midi on logic. Loop simply loops until it sees another part, so stick a blank bit at the beginning of the following bar. Turn loops into aliases, rearrange for composition, turn to parts & add fills/transitions/etc as necessary. Do your chord changes in the chord track (which for some reason I still find messy since I'm not trying to turn over tunes in an hour for ad work using apple loops), manually, using the arrange based transform or throw one in the environment and print stuff back into a new track as needed etc. Workflow hasn't changed much since the notator days really, has it?

If the delay on undo is due to using a very large sampler program or rompler on hte track that you're composing with, you might also try not using that directly when arranging. Create a dummy object, midi instr or multi and wire that to the instrument object instead while editing. This works for me with larger programs in Kontakt & EXS24, although just limiting Logic's Undo (and Kontakt's) to something much smaller seems to have avoides issues as well.

Honestly I think some of this behavior is due to the 'channel strip' behavior in Logic now, which I personally could have lived without. But I just learn what to do within my workflow, there are of course other things you can do as well I'm sure.

[ultrasound6]

Thanks Valis, but believe or not, I do know what I am doing. I am looking for hassle
free solutions - I am relatively new to these posts, but I am NOT new to sequencing and producing with a sophisticated system. One thing I have noticed is that most posts on these sites include convoluted suggestions around bugs. My point is that these miniscule midi issues should not exist in the 1st place - especially now that we are in the year 2010 with enough processing power to send a mother ship to Mars and back !! Logic 7 was the best version as far as midi, environments and the look of the arrange page went. Version 8 tried to hip it all up to look and feel more like P Tools - WHY ? ? ? Yeah, yeah, some improvements in work flow stuff and obvious native plugs have improved through the roof with Vers 9, but it's not too much to ask for sound, basic
midi commands to work as well as they did in Logic 5, for God's sake, is it ? ? ?

[Jam]

Originally Posted by ultrasound6

if - when every time I record a simple midi part, (with no plugs or audio), that Logic 9 wouldn't copy the freakin' thing over one hundred times by automatically ticking the loop box in the inspector. Another issue is when I undo a simple midi take, the beast freezes and thinks about it for around 3 secsULTRASOUND6.COM | Al Harding

I'm with Valis I've not seen either of these behaviours here or on any of the Logic systems I see regularly.

For what it's worth I've not seen any major issues with Nine myself and I feel sorry for those who have.

James