We all know how to pan L and R in a mix, but how do I "pan" FORWARD and BACK?

[MacchieDiSangue]

I wish it was as simple as panning left or right (maybe it will be one day?).

But how does one accomplish this? I know it's a broad question. It just strikes me that in trying to create a multi-dimensional sonic image, our immediate options are limited to panning left and right, across the "X-axis" (a la high school geometry). Then there's the "Y-axis", which goes up and down. I don't really know how to manipulate that one, either.

It's the "Z-axis", the one that brings a geometric plane into three dimensions, that is on my mind. What are some effective ways of manipulating one's mixes along the "Z-axis"? Whether it be something like bringing vocals to the front, a rhythm guitar part way to the back corner of the room or a string quartet, say, 8 feet directly behind the vocalist, what are some effective ways to bring this dynamic into my mixes?

[DeadPoet]

Not really a question for the music computers forum.

Read up on how to mix, how to balance instruments.

Simply put:
- panning gives you L-R
- faders and use of reverb/delays give you front-back
- eq gives you up-down


... but writing it down is way easier than mastering those skills.



Herwig

[equallyscrewed]

Look into binaural and transaural techniques.

You tube "virtual barbershop" with your head phones.

Its all to do with frequency masking, time and level differences.

[chazwood]

Logic has surround sound plugins that can move a mono signal all over the room.

[psykostx]

Um, volume. A little reverb helps. Lol. You need to read some more bookzes.

Volume = size
Reverb = space around something

When you look at a car in the distance, it starts of small with lots of space visible around it. As it comes towards you, less space, and it looks much bigger. Hence the formula: Volume + Reverb = Z axis.

lol that formula isn't real, but if you know math it makes sense.

distance is the amount of volume proportional to the amount of reverb. the more reverb, the louder something sounds, farther away. also the delay time of the reverb gives you the size of the space around the sound.

[dotcom]

This is a very good question. I really do not understand why there's no such button in any DAW. For now, we have to do it ourselves.

I guess you need a model to use with your experiments.



BACK, MID and FRONT are group channels. Create 3 group channels in your mixer.

BACK:
- insert a (pref. convolution) reverb with a big hall with cloudy sound (roll off highs)
- reduce the stereo width to 30-30
MID:
- insert a (pref. convolution) reverb with a medium hall
- set reverb pre-delay to 20ms
- reduce the stereo width to 60-60
FRONT:
- insert a ROOM reverb
- set reverb pre-delay to 40ms

Now, send some mono instrument ( a simple but not percussive sound) from different tracks to different groups. If you want a sound to be more far away, send it to BACK group, and so on. But you also need to consider the sound of the instrument track; if you want to send it BACK, do not make the sound bright because it would be controversial. You just can not make everything stand out.

You have to experiment, this is just a simplified framework to try out stuff.

Good luck,
dotty

[seany]

logic has binaural panning, if you have it as your sequencer. iirc, click on the output button on a channel and select the binaural there.

[tribeofenki]

that virtual barbershop is amazing! by the way, volume equals distance and frequency enhances perceived distance of sound source.

An high frequency noise - as a fast sweep - makes you naturally wonder where it comes from and you look around in the air, while a phat kick boomed into the night makes you fear there's an earthquake.

High frequencies are perceived above and at a certain distance, while lows are, Yes... below

[imixrecords]

The ear perceives distance as volume. If you want something to sound "in the back" of your mix make it quiet, and maybe add a bit of verb if needed and desired. If you want something up front in the mix make it louder and drier. Also Eq-ing in the key of the song can help with overall depth of a mix, and, as mentioned in a prior post, height.

It's that simple really.


Just my opinion, disregard at will!

[sleeper1400]

Originally Posted by MacchieDiSangue

I wish it was as simple as panning left or right (maybe it will be one day?).

But how does one accomplish this? I know it's a broad question. It just strikes me that in trying to create a multi-dimensional sonic image, our immediate options are limited to panning left and right, across the "X-axis" (a la high school geometry). Then there's the "Y-axis", which goes up and down. I don't really know how to manipulate that one, either.

It's the "Z-axis", the one that brings a geometric plane into three dimensions, that is on my mind. What are some effective ways of manipulating one's mixes along the "Z-axis"? Whether it be something like bringing vocals to the front, a rhythm guitar part way to the back corner of the room or a string quartet, say, 8 feet directly behind the vocalist, what are some effective ways to bring this dynamic into my mixes?

volume is the front/ back perspective.

[imixrecords]

There have been times when I used multiple autopanners to create the effect of the sound going behind your head. It made the producer turn around and think there was a speaker in the back of the room, but this was only a few times and it was more for effect.

It involves using 4 channels of autopanning and flipping the phase around on a return or two and creating a slight feedback loop by feeding the returns into each other along with some slight delaying. Not an exact science but when it comes together it can be really cool. I used 2 ADR Panscans to do it once. And another time I used the Cyclosonic at Marvin's Room LA to create the effect.

Panning is so critical to my mixes. On R&B records, for example, the ONLY thing panned all the way left/right is Hook Background vocals. That way when the hook vocals come in, the mix explodes out to the extremes of the stereo field. Also The ONLY thing in the middle is Lead Vocal, KIK,and Bass. Everything else occupies some other point in the stereo field.