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FilthyB
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#1
5th July 2009
Old 5th July 2009
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AMD Quad or Dual Core?

Hi guys,

I could really do with some advice on whether it's worth upgrading my 3ghz Dual Core Cpu (AMD 64x 6000+) to a Quad Core (Phenom II 940 3.0 ghz), Intel is not an option. I have read a lot of conflicting info on this subject I'm hoping someone has made a similar switch with their system, I run Cubase SX 3. I know it may seem obvious but I just want to be sure that ill get double the power without any compromises?
#2
5th July 2009
Old 5th July 2009
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really nothing beats TESTING with YOUR PROJECTS.
just remember its not just about the processor.
read some of the threads on GS bout velociraptors and other hi performance hard drives.
mebe for example your drives in your current system need
to be replaced with higher performance ones.

what are your NEEDS ??
ie..in any song what would your max trak n plug in counts be ??

now ph 2 and i7 are nice.
but its not the end of the processor story.
in fact i suspect we are just starting to rock n roll in the processor arena and more
processor goodies are gonna come.
so if you dont have oodles of dough it might be prudent to see what more you can get out of your current system. and save the money in case i7's or ph2 price drop for example.
tell us bout your current drives in your dual system.
WHAT ARE THEY ?? HOW MUCH CACHE ??
btw ..i can do 160 traks on my amd dual via a obvious submix/reload trick
if i wish. i dont go crazy on plug ins either.
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#3
5th July 2009
Old 5th July 2009
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Manning Normally I agree with you... but one little issue kind of doesn't work here... You can test a mic... a pre... a synth...
But can you really test a CPU????
I mean yea... in theory you can... but is it practical?
Here is how you can know when to upgrade?
How well is your current CPU performing? DAW's have the handy little CPU meter... So helpful... are you using most of your CPU for your projects? Having to compromise on Plugins to fit the whole thing? If you do think you need to upgrade... based off of that... then do it
I think with PC's... you wanna first figure out your budget... and then try to get the most bang for your buck within that budget... and generally every price range has a "Best for this amount of money" CPU....
If you have the opportunity to upgrade... I'd do it....
It's not very much money to get into the 940... and it just so happens to be a very nice CPU
You will notice a performance upgrade... not only with more cores.... but with Cache sizes and such....
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#4
5th July 2009
Old 5th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilthyB View Post
Hi guys,

I could really do with some advice on whether it's worth upgrading my 3ghz Dual Core Cpu (AMD 64x 6000+) to a Quad Core (Phenom II 940 3.0 ghz), Intel is not an option. I have read a lot of conflicting info on this subject I'm hoping someone has made a similar switch with their system, I run Cubase SX 3. I know it may seem obvious but I just want to be sure that ill get double the power without any compromises?
Well I updated my AMD Dual Core (2gb ram) +3800 to Intel Quad Core 6600 (4gb ram)... and I also went from using Cubase to Reaper.

Well I wouldn't go back. Now I can run projects with +70 tracks and +100 effects with a latency as low as 96 and my cpu is working at 50%
#5
5th July 2009
Old 5th July 2009
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The 6000+ is nothing like the Phenom II 940 (which is also nothing like the i7s). If you can afford the PII 940 (or any i7) go for it. YOu won't be disappointed.
#6
5th July 2009
Old 5th July 2009
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Is it not true that when running cubase having more cores doesn't really have an advantage.

Unless you were actualy multitasking at the time.
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5th July 2009
Old 5th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchiemasha View Post
Is it not true that when running cubase having more cores doesn't really have an advantage.

Unless you were actualy multitasking at the time.
You are always multitasking.
#8
6th July 2009
Old 6th July 2009
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R3altruth
well actually ive seen some people upgrade that didnt necessarily have to do so.
some people just havent got their workflow properly optimised from what ive seen to get the most out of their current system.
for example some people lather plug ins n traks like i lather cream cheese on toast..
...oooh....yummy....lol.
but i DO SEE where your coming from.
but even tho one might use a humble dual i'm sure with a couple of veloci drives a different beast would emerge. yes a 6000 mebe aint the latest n greatest , but its not the bottom end dual.
the reason for the testing suggestion is each one of us is different.

i sometimes wonder if some people , cos we are a "gimme it now" society
often upgrade at sometimes considerable expense without exploring options with their current system. and jump in too soon and should have saved their buks for some really
neat stuff in processors that will surely come. eg i7 mark 2 turbo edition ...lol.
for example a friend of mine was getting probs. i found reason why...crappy drives.
simple solution, put in a better drive to record to..all copasetic mate.

me..i might pick up a used ph2 or i7 next year..lol.
#9
6th July 2009
Old 6th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchiemasha View Post
Is it not true that when running cubase having more cores doesn't really have an advantage.
I don't think any of the halfway current berg apps would have an issue with that. I noticed that Nuendo2 only used one core on my quad 6600 & quad AMD machine. Version 3 was fine, so I guess anything past that generation in Cubase is OK.

Take Care
#10
6th July 2009
Old 6th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilthyB View Post
Hi guys,

I could really do with some advice on whether it's worth upgrading my 3ghz Dual Core Cpu (AMD 64x 6000+) to a Quad Core (Phenom II 940 3.0 ghz), Intel is not an option. I have read a lot of conflicting info on this subject I'm hoping someone has made a similar switch with their system, I run Cubase SX 3. I know it may seem obvious but I just want to be sure that ill get double the power without any compromises?
Intel aside (which is the better option)
the Phenom would be a pretty hefty upgrade.

however if you are not changing motherboards the change would not be as drastic in the memory dept. (DDR3 vs 2)

Scott
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FilthyB
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#11
6th July 2009
Old 6th July 2009
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Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.
I hear what some of you said about drives and other components but I'll end up buying a new PC if I go down that road. I can get the 940 for £150 in the UK so I'm gonna take the plunge and let you know how I get on, thanks again guys.
#12
7th July 2009
Old 7th July 2009
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It was just I read a article in a computer mag saying it was better to get a faster core over lots of slower ones. Naturaly the fastest most cores will be the best but when comparing to your budget if you had to choose over a slow quad and a fast dual. The fast dual would be better.
#13
7th July 2009
Old 7th July 2009
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Yea but thats relative....

Obviously a dual core 3.0GHz would be a better option then say a quad core 2.2....
But in this case the clock speeds are exactly the same... and the Cache sizes are bigger on the phenom... not just more cores......
FilthyB
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7th July 2009
Old 7th July 2009
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I'll be using the same old motherboard so the buss speed will be downgraded from AM2+ to AM2 with the 940. I think that will be ok as 4 cores running at 3ghz must be better than 2 at 3ghz right?
FilthyB
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5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
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Right guys, finally got all the parts for the upgrade and i'm wishing i never bothered. I had to get a new MB in the end, the one i got from Gigabyte has the dfegadchip heatsink blocking one of the pcie slots, 1 uad card down. Then to top it off the systems runs like shite, cpu spikes all the time and 5% cpu hit from Korg Legacy Cell or a API 560, wtf, have I missed something or am i just really unlucky with upgrades in general

I swear, from now on if it ain't broke.....tutt
#16
5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
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what was the cpu hit for korg on the old system?
FilthyB
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5th September 2009
Old 5th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dullfangs View Post
what was the cpu hit for korg on the old system?
About 1%

Unless anyone has some idea of whats up I'm gonna re-install the old dual core system today.

I upgraded with a AMD Phennom Quad X4 940 cpu & Gigabyte GA-M720-us3 MB, for some reason only 2GB of the 4GB of ram installed shows, 3GB is what i had showing on the dual core system?

Anyone running the same or similar???
#18
5th September 2009
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obviously something is not right.
you shoud have seen a nice jump in performance.
way too many things to point to
having had to buy a mobo as well you should have then did the Intel.

sorry to here its not working out but dont give up..

Scott
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#19
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilthyB View Post
About 1%

Unless anyone has some idea of whats up I'm gonna re-install the old dual core system today.

I upgraded with a AMD Phennom Quad X4 940 cpu & Gigabyte GA-M720-us3 MB, for some reason only 2GB of the 4GB of ram installed shows, 3GB is what i had showing on the dual core system?

Anyone running the same or similar???

sounds like it could most likely be a couple of possibilities...

bios cannot correctly handle either the 940 or your ram modules speed rating, and needs an update via flashing. the nvidia 720 series chipset is extremely not worthy and rather dated. best bet is return it and get a 9300/9400 chipset mobo, or a 780/790/785 amd chipset board.

bad ram sticks. again a return is needed if that's the case

crappy power supply. did you simply drop all this into the old case and have the old supply? the phenom II 940 is not really power hungry compared to a 6000+ however it is more sensitive to dirty power. also faster ram and more of it filling all the available ram slots can cause issues too with power drops on the 3.3v rail.

my main concern is that you spent good money on a 720 series chipset motherboard. that really needs to go back no matter what as it can be "upgraded" to a better more modern chipset that can handle hi-def video decode and has faster i/o for the sata and such. the mainboard spec sheet from gigabyte says it will support the pII 940 but only with bios revisions f2 or higher. chances are you have the default early revision bios and it needs flashing but even so get a different board for your money.
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6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W-W-Int View Post
sounds like it could most likely be a couple of possibilities...

bios cannot correctly handle either the 940 or your ram modules speed rating, and needs an update via flashing. the nvidia 720 series chipset is extremely not worthy and rather dated. best bet is return it and get a 9300/9400 chipset mobo, or a 780/790/785 amd chipset board.

bad ram sticks. again a return is needed if that's the case

crappy power supply. did you simply drop all this into the old case and have the old supply? the phenom II 940 is not really power hungry compared to a 6000+ however it is more sensitive to dirty power. also faster ram and more of it filling all the available ram slots can cause issues too with power drops on the 3.3v rail.

my main concern is that you spent good money on a 720 series chipset motherboard. that really needs to go back no matter what as it can be "upgraded" to a better more modern chipset that can handle hi-def video decode and has faster i/o for the sata and such. the mainboard spec sheet from gigabyte says it will support the pII 940 but only with bios revisions f2 or higher. chances are you have the default early revision bios and it needs flashing but even so get a different board for your money.
Thanks for the insight mate, I gave up and re-installed my old system until I read this. I ran a project that was hitting 50% on my Dual core, same project on the Quad was hitting 70% and spiking up to 100? This Gigabyte board bytes (in a bad way), I've damaged a UAD2 card becuase the chip heatsink is in the most dfegadf##king stupid place, how they can advertise it as having 2 pcie slots i dont know becuase one is unuseable becuase of the damn heatsink placment. I searched for a good while to get this MB as i need x4 old style pci slots and x2 pcie slots for all my dsp and audio cards. Selling or upgrading (e.g x2 UAD1 for x1 UAD2 Duo) any of them for the sake of a cpu upgrade is not an option, my old system works, but some extra native plug power would be very welcome. Everyone i inquired with about this board said the ram (crosair smx2), cpu and this board were made for one another, I even found a few places selling them as a bundle

My psu is a brand new Ocz GSX850SLI that Ocz just sent as a replacement for one that died a few weeks back, i have it running in my old system at the mo with no probs.

I was gonna list the cpu and MB on ebay tonight and just give up, If someone knows of a decent MB (without an intruding heatsink) with the spec i want i'll give it one more go?
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FilthyB
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#21
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
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#22
6th September 2009
Old 6th September 2009
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Viscous View Post
You are always multitasking.
actually the kernel is
FilthyB
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#23
15th September 2009
Old 15th September 2009
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Can anyone offer some more specific solutions to the poor performance? Everything ran ok, no crashing but the cpu performance was the same if not worse than my dual core. I run XP home, x4 uad, x1 powercore and Cubase SX 3, are the dsp cards the issue here?thumbsup
#24
15th September 2009
Old 15th September 2009
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The problem is the AMD CPU, all pros go with the INTEL CPU:s. You have to buy a new MoBo and a New CPU, I can recommend the i7 920 CPU.
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#25
17th September 2009
Old 17th September 2009
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Maybe your right? if so, what MB has x4 old style pci slots and x2 pcie slots
#26
17th September 2009
Old 17th September 2009
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well this new one has 4 pci, 1 pci-e 1x and 2 pci-e 16x. it would work fine for your purposes. it's an Intel 1156 socket mobo so you can save some money and get an I-5 instead of the I-7 based cpus.

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD3R LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

and yes it only has 1 1x pci-e slot you are going to say, but the beauty of pci-e is if you have a higher x number slot you can put a lower one in that slot. for instance you can use a 4x pci-e card in an 8x or 16x slot and you can use a 1x card in ANY pci-e slot. as far as 4 pci slots in a new mobo you are looking at expensive high end boards or workstation boards with pci and pci-x mixed in with pci-e or overpriced crap from yesteryear like a pentium 3 board etc...

as far as the issues you had with that 7xx series nvidia chipset it is probably due to a combination of factors not a single one. some kind of incompatibility with a component in your system and an unstable set up. turn cool 'n quiet off in the bios entirely and never ever ever turn it on again. put only the minimum hardware neccesary to boot into an operating system and get video and network going and update drivers for what you have going at that point. then add the next most important hardware and see how it goes. in your case...
put in the hard drive, the dvd-drive, the vid card and the ram (2 sticks only) and cpu. plug it all in to the power supply and mobo and boot up windows. load drivers and update as neccesary. then add in your uad cards starting with pci one at a time with a reboot inbetween and a test as well inbetween. then go for the pci-e cards if all is well and see how that goes.

also make sure that cool 'n quiet is off in the bios as well as these peripherals / features disabled...
(if not using ide drives and all is sata) turn off the ide controllers
turn off the printer port
turn off the serial ports (not to be confused with the usb ports)
turn off floppy controller
turn off onboard audio
turn off onboard firewire (if you do not have any audio interface that's firewire or have a dedicated firewire card you'd rather use)
turn off usb keyboard/mouse emulation


things to make sure are enabled or turned on in bios...

usb 2.0 (sometimes called something different in bios but basically high speed usb should be on)
built in network controller should be on and if settings for speed exist set to highest speed card supports such as gigabit or full duplex 100 etc..
make sure sata controllers are set properly for your usage i.e. if you are going to use the drives individually and not put them in raid 1 or 0 or 5 or 6 make sure the controller is in ide mode or sata or basically anything that isn't ahci or raid mode. if you are going to do raid set it up at the beginning before you install the operating system and create the array and then install to it only if you are doing a raid array for the operating system's drive. other wise if you are doing a single drive off the raid controller for a boot/operating system drive install all the drives and set the ones other than the boot drive in raid arrays first, and just leave them unpartitioned or un-used until you get everything going first.
#27
17th September 2009
Old 17th September 2009
  #27
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AMD Athlon always had more raw FPU Horsepower than Intel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Viscous View Post
The 6000+ is nothing like the Phenom II 940 (which is also nothing like the i7s). If you can afford the PII 940 (or any i7) go for it. YOu won't be disappointed.
Explain
FilthyB
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#28
22nd September 2009
Old 22nd September 2009
  #28
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Many thanks for all your tips and advice guys, unfortunately I have given up for now. Just too much time being wasted at the end of the daytutt. I will get XP Pro to solve the Ram prob with the 3gb switch, i'll simply carry on bouncing tracks to save CPU until i have more time to get an upgrade that works for me. Thanks again.

Btw if anyone wants to buy a new AMD X4 and Gigabyte MB I have them on ebay right now
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#29
22nd September 2009
Old 22nd September 2009
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W-W-Int View Post
well this new one has 4 pci, 1 pci-e 1x and 2 pci-e 16x. it would work fine for your purposes. it's an Intel 1156 socket mobo so you can save some money and get an I-5 instead of the I-7 based cpus.

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD3R LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

and yes it only has 1 1x pci-e slot you are going to say, but the beauty of pci-e is if you have a higher x number slot you can put a lower one in that slot. for instance you can use a 4x pci-e card in an 8x or 16x slot and you can use a 1x card in ANY pci-e slot. as far as 4 pci slots in a new mobo you are looking at expensive high end boards or workstation boards with pci and pci-x mixed in with pci-e or overpriced crap from yesteryear like a pentium 3 board etc...

as far as the issues you had with that 7xx series nvidia chipset it is probably due to a combination of factors not a single one. some kind of incompatibility with a component in your system and an unstable set up. turn cool 'n quiet off in the bios entirely and never ever ever turn it on again. put only the minimum hardware neccesary to boot into an operating system and get video and network going and update drivers for what you have going at that point. then add the next most important hardware and see how it goes. in your case...
put in the hard drive, the dvd-drive, the vid card and the ram (2 sticks only) and cpu. plug it all in to the power supply and mobo and boot up windows. load drivers and update as neccesary. then add in your uad cards starting with pci one at a time with a reboot inbetween and a test as well inbetween. then go for the pci-e cards if all is well and see how that goes.

also make sure that cool 'n quiet is off in the bios as well as these peripherals / features disabled...
(if not using ide drives and all is sata) turn off the ide controllers
turn off the printer port
turn off the serial ports (not to be confused with the usb ports)
turn off floppy controller
turn off onboard audio
turn off onboard firewire (if you do not have any audio interface that's firewire or have a dedicated firewire card you'd rather use)
turn off usb keyboard/mouse emulation


things to make sure are enabled or turned on in bios...

usb 2.0 (sometimes called something different in bios but basically high speed usb should be on)
built in network controller should be on and if settings for speed exist set to highest speed card supports such as gigabit or full duplex 100 etc..
make sure sata controllers are set properly for your usage i.e. if you are going to use the drives individually and not put them in raid 1 or 0 or 5 or 6 make sure the controller is in ide mode or sata or basically anything that isn't ahci or raid mode. if you are going to do raid set it up at the beginning before you install the operating system and create the array and then install to it only if you are doing a raid array for the operating system's drive. other wise if you are doing a single drive off the raid controller for a boot/operating system drive install all the drives and set the ones other than the boot drive in raid arrays first, and just leave them unpartitioned or un-used until you get everything going first.

Cheers mate, I'll look into this in a few months
#30
11th May 2010
Old 11th May 2010
  #30
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Talking Im Amazed!

Damn you mother****ers are super smart...I never knew all that about computers...I have a G5 Dual 2.33ghz and I want to get a Quad 2.5....but I was looking at this thread because I am a internet web designer, so I have my computers narrowed down to this...HP Slimline Computers...One is the i3 processor with HDMI and its $458.00 and the Core 2 Quad is $514.00 which do you think would be the better buy? YOU GUYS ****IN ROCK
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