Saw my last Protools error

[shanabit]

I took my DIGI 002Rack out of the rack. I wont be seeing anymore of those errors

[bmdaugherty]

Congratulations!

PTLE is too limited and just doesn't sound that great.

PTHD is too old to be as expensive as it is. It is pretty much needless hardware expense. Sure it works... until you run out of dsp... HD made great sense in the G4 OS X only days...

dfegad digi

[Yenrah]

Ok question? How do I maximize my DSP? I'm running a Mac Mini 1GB Ram Intel 1.83Ghz processor.

Is the low ram the problem?

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

Sure it works... until you run out of dsp... HD made great sense in the G4 OS X only days...

dfegad digi

Riddle me this... How do you run out of DSP if you are running both cards and using RTAS?
That's the advantage of HD. You can run all of your plugins on the cards and have tons of native DSP for RTAS and VI's.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

Congratulations!

PTLE is too limited and just doesn't sound that great.

PTHD is too old to be as expensive as it is. It is pretty much needless hardware expense. Sure it works... until you run out of dsp... HD made great sense in the G4 OS X only days...

dfegad digi

Horses for courses mate...I couldn't earn a living without it!

You prefer something else...fine by me. but "just doesn't sound that great" you have to back up. And you're a braver man than me if you want to track an orchestral, or a busy band session to a native system.

[MikeFFG]

Obviously this thread has been done before, but anyways, I find HD to be everything I want it to be, except it's absolutely ridiculously expensive. LE has its problems and there are prolly some better options out there that are equivalent but damn if I've found any other program with the speed and editing abilities of PT.

[Tony Shepperd]

Shane, I've seen some great deals on a used HD systems.

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Shane, I've seen some great deals on a used HD systems.

Thanks Tony, however, at this time, Im in the 9.5% of the US that is without employment thanks to our highly moral/ethical business folk

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

Congratulations!

PTLE is too limited and just doesn't sound that great.

PTHD is too old to be as expensive as it is. It is pretty much needless hardware expense. Sure it works... until you run out of dsp... HD made great sense in the G4 OS X only days...

dfegad digi

Too expensive !! ?? I always like that one. It's not even in the top 20 list of most expensive things in my studio !! Expensive for a hobby - not for a business!!

[sscannon]

PTHD is not 'too' expensive on the used market, compared to equivalent solutions (DSP cards, etc.). The ebay prices are right about where TDM Mix core cards were a few years back when HD came out. I regularly see Accel cards for $1500, and it's going to continue to go down in price as time goes on. For comparison, a UAD Quad is $2000.

[jeremyglover]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

Congratulations!

PTLE is too limited and just doesn't sound that great.

PTHD is too old to be as expensive as it is. It is pretty much needless hardware expense. Sure it works... until you run out of dsp... HD made great sense in the G4 OS X only days...

dfegad digi

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Expensive for a hobby - not for a business!!

Bam! What a great quote!

PT is still the leading DAW out there for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

PTLE is too limited and just doesn't sound that great.

Tooooooo funny!

Damn this place cracks me up!

[mattafact]

I got my HD2 for a very reasonable price on the used market. I couldn't be happier.

[maxpidge]

i've always wondered why people complain about the cost of HD, then i realized it's because they have probably never priced out a what it would cost to have the same recording capability's in an all analog world....

could you imagine what it would take to string 8, 24track studer's together to get 192 tracks?? not to mention tape cost and up-keep...

[bmdaugherty]

Okay, "PTLE (note: LE, which is a native system) just doesn't sound that great" means that there is no automatic plugin delay compensation. It means that I dislike the sound of it's summing algorithms and mix bus bit depth.

PTHD sounds much better than LE, and TDM plugins sound better than their RTAS counterparts. Therefore it is beneficial to use as many tdm plugins as possible.

This is where things start to suck. TDM plugins are much more costly, and when you run out of dsp, you're out. Then you can't even use your investment because the dsp on your outdated architecture is too weak. PTHD WAS a good investment if you bought it in 2002 when your A room had a dual G4, but come on guys, I'm not picking on you, I'm pointing out that, for being at the forefront of the DAW market, DIGI really should update their DSP architecture to actually be competitive.

Also, 192 tracks is really not that many. Nuendo or even logic (only $500 US) can handle way more tracks than that. Plus, when you set your PTHD rig up that way, how much DSP is left for plugins?. Native systems on modern workstations handle more tracks, with more plugins, at higher sample rates for less money. No, it was NOT always like this... Like I said, HD was a beast, in 2002...

Oh and sorry, it's expensive either way. Don't get me wrong, the hardware is of moderate expense, but the problem is the added expense of tdm plugins and the cost of having a proprietary solution. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO DIGIDESIGN.

[Dysanfel]

The "sound" problems I had with my 002R had everything to do with the convertors compared to my Apogee Duet. The "software" problems I had with PTLE had everything to do with workflow compared to Ableton live.

I can agree with bmdaugherty, but perhaps for different reasons.

[George Necola]

can we start to make and record music again?

Led Zeppelin did not complain about tapehiss right?

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

Okay, "PTLE (note: LE, which is a native system) just doesn't sound that great" means that there is no automatic plugin delay compensation. It means that I dislike the sound of it's summing algorithms and mix bus bit depth.

PTHD sounds much better than LE, and TDM plugins sound better than their RTAS counterparts. Therefore it is beneficial to use as many tdm plugins as possible.

This is where things start to suck. TDM plugins are much more costly, and when you run out of dsp, you're out. Then you can't even use your investment because the dsp on your outdated architecture is too weak. PTHD WAS a good investment if you bought it in 2002 when your A room had a dual G4, but come on guys, I'm not picking on you, I'm pointing out that, for being at the forefront of the DAW market, DIGI really should update their DSP architecture to actually be competitive.

Also, 192 tracks is really not that many. Nuendo or even logic (only $500 US) can handle way more tracks than that. Plus, when you set your PTHD rig up that way, how much DSP is left for plugins?. Native systems on modern workstations handle more tracks, with more plugins, at higher sample rates for less money. No, it was NOT always like this... Like I said, HD was a beast, in 2002...

Oh and sorry, it's expensive either way. Don't get me wrong, the hardware is of moderate expense, but the problem is the added expense of tdm plugins and the cost of having a proprietary solution. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO DIGIDESIGN.

There is so much bad information in this post it's hard to know where to start, so I just won't

TH

[bmdaugherty]

Well I guess that sets the record straight then? Great discussion. Thanks.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

Well I guess that sets the record straight then? Great discussion. Thanks.

You know, I have a feeling that Paul Frindle, and Colin McDowell of McDSP, who are programmers, know a lot more than we do about RTAS vs TDM plugs. It's just a hunch and I may be silly, but that's my feeling.

They both say there is no difference.

TH

[bmdaugherty]

Well then why pay a HUGE premium for being able to run a plugin on last generation DSP chips? Is there really no actual benefit? Are rtas plugins correctly delay compensated?

If there is really no difference, then digidesign has been doing a huge disservice to it's client base by keeping people in the dark to that fact and letting them continue to spend thousands of extra dollars on plugins for a specialized platform that will inevitably be phased out at some point.

The performance of native workstations has been powerful enough for several years to justify a version of hd without any dsp beyond the mix engine processing. This would be a great compromise, and a much more worthwhile investment.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

Well then why pay a HUGE premium for being able to run a plugin on last generation DSP chips? Is there really no actual benefit? Are rtas plugins correctly delay compensated?

If there is really no difference, then digidesign has been doing a huge disservice to it's client base by keeping people in the dark to that fact and letting them continue to spend thousands of extra dollars on plugins for a specialized platform that will inevitably be phased out at some point.

The performance of native workstations has been powerful enough for several years to justify a version of hd without any dsp beyond the mix engine processing. This would be a great compromise, and a much more worthwhile investment.

Why is it surprising to you that everything to do with HD is overpriced? And where does Digidesign tell ANYONE that the TDM plug ins sound better? You pay a premium for being an HD guy, it's just that simple. When the guys who make the plug ins tell you there is no difference, that is good enough for me...

TH

[cqd]

[QUOTE=bmdaugherty;4360658]Well then why pay a HUGE premium for being able to run a plugin on last generation DSP chips? Is there really no actual benefit? Are rtas plugins correctly delay compensated?
QUOTE]

AFAIK the difference in cost is related to the programming...tdm plugs are written at the machine code level while the rtas plugs are written in ci think..

[DivineMusic]

i had an hd5 with 3 192i/o's and a 32ch icon... beautiful system, but was it HONESTLY worth the price...NO it wasnt, if i was to get another hd system for a B room i'd get a used icon for under $30k vs buying a new one or get something that actually does something for sound.. like a aws900+

i dont understand why you PT guys are so set on PT isn't overpriced. Fact of the matter it is and dsp wise, it HONESTLY isnt that strong anymore.
a HD6 vs a i7 quad is damn near close powerwise.. take my my macpro 8 core 2.66(feb2009) is more powerful that any HD setup point blank period...
Together with Nuendo and logic i can do whatever i want and never have any draw backs or Dae errors... o and with the uad2 Quad i have plenty of dsp and native power.
Had HD, a major Hd system.. been there done that... Lynx/native is more efficient for me and thats all it comes down to. whats efficient for you and your workflow... i have no idea how ppl work with live.. i can't stand looking at it, but ppl that know how to utilize it well can put something out equivalent to anything done with a HD system

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, i make/made mine after owning an hd accel system and Le system

Macpro (osx or windows)
Your choice of Daw
lynx aurora converters with the aes card
equals under $7000 and more power and flexibility than a $25,000+ Hd setup...
mmmm, presonus studioone is looking better and better lol

[shanabit]

For the Record, I was talking about my DIGI 002Rack running Protools LE8.0 giving me errors, NOT anything about HD here

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by shanabit

For the Record, I was talking about my DIGI 002Rack running Protools LE8.0 giving me errors, NOT anything about HD here

It doesn't matter... these threads inevitably end up in a debate about Pro Tools HD. All it takes is one mention of it to set off the pro/ anti TDM folks.

[jmarkham]

I promise I will sit this one out ;-)
jeff

[baslotto]

Originally Posted by shanabit

For the Record, I was talking about my DIGI 002Rack running Protools LE8.0 giving me errors, NOT anything about HD here

Funny!

[Big Andy]

Why do people fight so much about this? It really does confuse me, I live and work in LA and I have NEVER heard anyone who WORKS complain about PTs. Do what you can with what you have. At this moment in time, the only thing you are gonna get better than PTs is "Being there".

Every song on the radio, every television show and every film in the theatre is made using Pro Tools. Maybe the issue here isn't the Program or D/A converters.... dare I say, maybe you just need more practice.

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

I have NEVER heard anyone who WORKS complain about PTs.

The majority (most) of the posters on GS are not professionals.