Symphony system, am I missing something?

[davey boy]

I recently got an Apogee Rosetta 800. I have it hooked up with light pipe into a motu 2408 going into Logic 8. Out of curiosity I bought the symphony cards, thinking that I might have less latency if recording though the software. Well, as far as I can tell it sounds the same as if I'm going through the motu stuff or though symphony. If I'm at a buffer of 64 I don't notice a drop in cpu load if in symphony. I was hoping that I could raise my buffer up in symphony, like 128, or 256 and notice less latency then the motu but I don't. Obviously if I turn off software monitoring and monitor through Maestro, or Cuemix then there's even less latency. So, at this point the only benefit I can see in keeping symphony is if I start recording at a sample rate higher than 48khz.
Another downfall with my particular setup is that I still need to get the digital outs of the rosetta into the 2408 to monitor through my system. When using symphony I have to go into the advanced routing mode to activate 2 lightpipe outputs. But, when I do this it creates a feedback loop if I record anything on those same inputs. So, now I only have 6 inputs. Another strike against symphony. I think the Apogee tech said this was a limitation of the Rosetta and that the x series are more flexible. I'm now intrigued at replacing it, or at least the AD part of it with the AD-16x. Does the AD-16x boast different latency specs for some reason? Anyway, I'm not bashing Symphony, I'm just trying to justify having it at this point and hope I'm overlooking something obvious.

[clonewar]

I don't have a Symphony system but thought that the major advantage of it was being able to run projects at a 32 sample buffer. Running Symphony at 128 or 256 will produce the same amount of latency as any other audio device running at those buffer sizes..

[Sergievsky]

I replaced my Rosetta with an AD16X, and was able to forego a DA by using advanced routing mode which gave me an additional 16digital outs to the 16analog ins. I have a Yahama DM1000 so I'm able to use the DAs from that to monitor the outputs of the AD16x. So if you have any digital mixer it's a good way to go.

Try recording through a channel WITH plugins, printing that track. I think that might be an advantage of the Symphony...kinda like PTHD, not relegating plugins to mixdown, but being able to actually use them like hardware.

I went with the Symphony because I wanted the SBUS feature. I'm setting up my new MacPro now, and will hook up my old Quad G5 direct from symphony card to symphony card. And I'm actually excited!

[davey boy]

Originally Posted by Sergievsky

I replaced my Rosetta with an AD16X, and was able to forego a DA by using advanced routing mode which gave me an additional 16digital outs to the 16analog ins. I have a Yahama DM1000 so I'm able to use the DAs from that to monitor the outputs of the AD16x. So if you have any digital mixer it's a good way to go.

Try recording through a channel WITH plugins, printing that track. I think that might be an advantage of the Symphony...kinda like PTHD, not relegating plugins to mixdown, but being able to actually use them like hardware.

I went with the Symphony because I wanted the SBUS feature. I'm setting up my new MacPro now, and will hook up my old Quad G5 direct from symphony card to symphony card. And I'm actually excited!

Cool. So I can access 2 channels of lightpipe out like I'm doing now for purposes of monitoring back into a 2408 but not lose any inputs, correct? Are you working in Logic by chance and at 32 buffer? Also, what kind of quality difference did you notice by bumping up the the ad16x? It seems kind of like a no brainer to me assuming it's better, plus I'll get the better clock, which I can use as a master clock for my system.

[San01]

I don't own a symphony, but from what i remember, if you hook up another interface with it (say, a firewire one) the latency of the symphony will be increase to the latency of the other interface.

Also, what about using Vbus to reduce latency ???

[Sergievsky]

Are you using the Motu as a converter? You can't use both pci interfaces of course...unless it's on two different computers? (sorry, I'm confused ) Just wondering, but which 2408..mk1, 2, or 3? Anyway, if you're on Symphony then the motu can only be used as a converter, not as interface. In which case the clock on the apogee will certainly improve it. But if it's the mk1 it can only improve that pos so much. (DA speaking)

[davey boy]

Originally Posted by Sergievsky

Are you using the Motu as a converter? You can't use both pci interfaces of course...unless it's on two different computers? (sorry, I'm confused ) Just wondering, but which 2408..mk1, 2, or 3? Anyway, if you're on Symphony then the motu can only be used as a converter, not as interface. In which case the clock on the apogee will certainly improve it. But if it's the mk1 it can only improve that pos so much. (DA speaking)

No I'm not. At this point I've been experimenting by using the Rosetta strictly as an AD, then lightpipe out to the 2408. Or, by using the symphony card. But, in order to monitor I need to still lightpipe out of the rosetta into the 2408. I realize this isn't the best approach but because everything I have is currently going into a D8B that's the way it's going to be for the time being. I guess I could lightpipe out of the ad16x and go directly into the D8b as well.

[Sergievsky]

Why do you need the 2408 in order to monitor? If you have the Symphony card connected to the Rosetta as interface, why not just lightpipe right into the D8B? Take out the motu out of the chain. Is it because you need more than 8 inputs coming from the D8B?

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by davey boy

I was hoping that I could raise my buffer up in symphony, like 128, or 256 and notice less latency then the motu but I don't.

I thought buffer and latency were tied at the hips? A buffer of 128 samples will be about 4ms of latency no matter what audio interface you are using.

[davey boy]

Originally Posted by Sergievsky

Why do you need the 2408 in order to monitor? If you have the Symphony card connected to the Rosetta as interface, why not just lightpipe right into the D8B? Take out the motu out of the chain. Is it because you need more than 8 inputs coming from the D8B?

Well, I still use Digital Performer (and occasionally PT LE). And, i'm not sold on the symphony setup with DP so I still want to be able to route stuff into a 2408 for now. I realize I could use symphony in DP if I was not monitoring through DP and used Maestro. At this point I'm still trying to figure things out. By piping the 800 into a 2408 I was up and running immediately in both Logic and DP. Then I got the Symphony cards to "experiment" with. Ideally it would be nice to ditch the D8B all together and use the Euphonix controller. Seems to be the way to go. but, it will cost me more money just to get rid of things and rewire my patch bay, sooooo, not going to happen right now. But, thanks for the idea as I did think of it too. I'll have to try a buffer of 32. I'm just afraid that any normal session do will freeze up as I use VIs that seem to start to choke at a buffer of 64, unless there's some magic efficiency thing that kicks in at 32 (??).

[Sergievsky]

I've used DP 5.13 with Symphony on my Quad G5 and it was rock solid, really a great setup. You don't even need Maestro...I myself never really got my head around it, I just monitor straight through DP at a 64 buffer. My 2408 is on another computer that is being used as a sound module.

I'm switching over to Logic, but the 64 buffer in DP is more than sufficient. Just take out the 2408 from the chain. You could probably do what I did, switch the rosetta for an AD16X and hook it up digitally through the D8B. I don't know the quality of the DA from that desk, but my Yamaha was good enough for me that I didn't need a separate DA. Save you a couple grand that way, as well as double your analog inputs.

That said, the 2408 is really a good system, and their Cuemix could have been really something had they developed it even more. Great bang for the buck. But if you have and like Apogee interfaces, adding the Symphony card is close to a no-brainer...(if only it was a bit cheaper!)

[davey boy]

So when you're at a buffer of 64 in DP I assume you're not running any VIs. I feel that if I was doing that and I had BFD2 going, even on my fast intel machine, I'd have some problems! But, I could try it out for myself and then I'll know for sure. I'm using a benchmark DAC1 for my DA. Thanks for your replies.