What is the big deal about dongle hate?

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by lagavulin16

It sounds like you won't be satisfied until I download a cracked copy of a Syncrosoft product, install it, and provide you with screenshots and an MP3 demo at every step of the way. As I don't download, use, or encourage the use of cracked software, I'll have to decline.

It's out there. Believe what you want, but screaming that the sky isn't blue while closing your eyes isn't going to convince anyone of your side of the argument.

I believe Cubase 4 was partially cracked but it didn't work very well. I don't think Cubase 5 has been cracked at all.

Right. I don't defend that Syncrosoft is uncrackable, but that it is the most effective copy protection used to date. The fact that Cubase 4 never had a fully working crack during it's whole life cycle is enough for me. In many of these discussions, which have been going on for years, people made claims like yours, and there was never a single crack to be seen, besides SX3. Now, the link posted does seem to indicate that some products have been cracked, but most haven't been cracked yet so syncrosoft is still the most effective protection to date and still is much more effective than anything else. It is still the most effective copy protection around, and as far as I'm concerned, I don't want to pay for things freely available to download and if a company does not invest in protecting my investment then I'd probably try to find an alternative to it. If I lose the dongle then I'm prepared to buy thee license again, and no, it's not like losing the car keys, it's like losing the car. All you bought was the license, and you lost all you bought.

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by lagavulin16

And we've established that dongles don't protect them any better than serials or other protection schemes, as it's all been cracked.

Are you crazy or something?? Most of the syncrosoft products have no cracks, yet all the serial ones have and you say this?? Can't you keep the discussion to facts instead of crap like this? It hasn't all been cracked, stop spreading lies just to support your argument!!!

[rydan]

Originally Posted by Monobasser

Like Mayor999 says, an iLok is empowering for a lot of users who move between studios.

Yes, the license management part of the dongle systems are much better than challenge/response and similar.

However, with just a bit of agreement from software manufacturers, it would be pretty simple to create a system where plugins, on load, would just search a regular USB memory for license files in a defined format. With that system, you could still keep backups of your license files, in case of theft. Best of both worlds, the way I see it.

[Chrisbeuermann]

Hello,

When you lose the Steinberg USB Key, replacement is possible. From our knowledge base:



I have accidentally lost my USB key! Does it get replaced by Steinberg?

• Again, the USB-eLicenser is the most vital part of your product!
  Please make sure to have all keys registered in MySteinberg so that the key number is known. Without a MySteinberg account and a USB-eLicenser registration, no replacement is possible.
  Now, in case the USB-eLicenser has been lost or stolen, please contact your local support for further information on how to proceed.
  It might make sense to have an empty spare USB-eLicenser at hand as we only replace the licenses stored on the lost/stolen key (if all preconditions are met).

Direct link to the knowledge base article
Cheers,

Chris

[rydan]

That's REALLY good news. That was not the case previously. Hopefully more companies follow Steinbergs example!

[colinmiller]

Originally Posted by m127

if a software company does not offer "some type of copy protection", you COULD NOT buy it basically because that would mean the software is free you genius






.

Um, maybe you might want to think that one through there champ. There is plenty of commercial software that has no copy protection. OS X for example has no copy protection. It's not free.

[colinmiller]

Originally Posted by lagavulin16

The point is his problem would have been avoided with serials and other non-dongle authentication.

I'm not saying get rid of copy protection. A the software I use outside of free stuff has some kind of copy protection. I just don't use dongles.

I understand. And the point is that no matter what the problem occurs anywhere, there's some other solution that would have worked better. And whatever that better solution is would have been worse in another.

So this argument doesn't really work as there is no such thing as a situation that is foolproof. And the point of my post was to provide a perfect example of how a situation that most people here are asking for would be devastating to others.

So how is a solution that cause even more problems for others a solution? I will also support and endorse dongles as my business depends on it.

[colinmiller]

Originally Posted by rydan

Not really. It's enough that a single computer savy group cracks the software and makes the crack available on torrent sites. Then, the rest don't need any more than to be able to double click an installer/exe/patch file.

But for most software they don't. Because they can't. And no one is expecting anything to be fool proof. A I said, you put a lock on a door and it offers protection. It might not stop some foreign government's secret service, but it will stop the average criminal which is the greater threat. Before the dongles I couldn't find a single studio in all of LA that wasn't using cracked software. Now I can't find any that do (which doesn't mean there aren't any in either case). There's no question that dongles have indeed provided a great level of protection.

Really. So, it's in your own best interest that you have to purchase your software again if the dongle is lost or stolen? It's in your own best interest that the companies don't trust you enough to give you another auth, or give you an option to keep a backup file of your license safely tucked away? Why is that you think? I think it's because the think you will break/abuse the license agreement at the first possible opportunity. Thought about that?

But I don't have to purchase my software again. I have protection on it and a backup dongle that provides 7 days of use during the process of restoring the original. And If that was then stolen, then yes I SHOULD have to buy everything again. Just because something is software doesn't mean that the company providing it has to take all of your responsibility. If you cannot protect or insure your investment, then that's what you get for not being smart. If someone steals your guitar, the company that made it sure isn't going to make you a new one. yet because something is software people feel that they no longer need to take any responsibility and that the software company is responsible for everything.

And companies using these dongles DO trust me. And it's these dongles that show me how serious they are about protecting my interests. The ones that don't aren't as concerned about me as a customer. Have you thought about how companies that don't use this protection then have to take losses on theft which means having to make cutbacks on support and providing updates?

So I have thought about this far more than you have. Trust me.

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by m127

What about that one, genius? Pendejo, Reaper does require a registration code, which is by definition COPY PROTECTION, get it?

It is copy protection because unless you enter the registration code your copy is ILLEGAL after 30 days, and you have some small (and friendly reminders) about the legal obbligation to register your copy for it to be valid and legal.





.

No, it isn't copy protection because you can do as many copies as you like, you can install in as many computers as you like, and you don't need any serial or activation code. There's no copy protection in Reaper, you idiot. Your crusade is completely ********, your arguments are ridiculous. You were already banned from KVR, and hopefully you will be banned from here as well.

[rydan]

Originally Posted by colinmiller

But I don't have to purchase my software again. I have protection on it and a backup dongle that provides 7 days of use during the process of restoring the original.

If you're talking about iLok zero downtime warranty, you do realize that you only get your own, unlimited, licenses back if the person who has stolen the dongle connects it and synchronizes with iLok.com after you have reported it stolen, right? If you're not talking about zero downtime, I would like to know what system you are using.

Originally Posted by colinmiller

If you cannot protect or insure your investment, then that's what you get for not being smart.

Well, I've said it before. I have spoken to most, if not all, swedish insurance companies, and as a private person i Sweden, you can't get insurance for software licenses, at least that's the answers I've been given.

[Raygun]

Lots of opinions here - I skipped the last five pages..
When Logic was tied to its dongle protection, I lost it. Someone asked how a person can be that clumpsy? Well, I had it in a zipped pocket of a bag, which I put into a suitcase for my 40 minute car ride, carrying it from one house to the car, then from the car to another house. I lost the dongle and that is just bad luck. What felt like a safe way to transport the dongle was in reality not. The zipper broke during the ride and when I investigated the suitcase, there was a small hole on one of the corners. Appearantly - since I never found the dongle again, despite a desperate search period of at least two weeks - it slipped out through the broken zipper, through my packings and found the little hole in the suitcase and got out through that, during my carrying it to or from the car. I had to buy Logic again and that sucked. Now, that was only Logic and it wasn't a financial disaster on a grand scale but it was about $1200 and that simply sucks.

The timing of this couldn't have been worse either - for various reasons I was in between two different insurance plans and was effectively without insurance for a couple of weeks. If this would have been my iLok... that would have been a total disaster! And obviously you can have real bad luck. I don't think it would be fair to say that I should have prepared this unique situation any better. It's hard to calculate with parameters you can't really imagine.

Dongles aren't a real problem for me - in fact I was just thinking about it as positive thing since I'm about to get a new iMac for my home setup. I will have my real work space, my simple home studio and a portable rig. That's three computers and most licenses only give me authorization for two computers. With a dongle, I can run my software on an unlimited number of hardware. That being said.. a serial number protection with a generous amount of hardware authorizations would be better than an iLok. No dongle is a better idea than to have a dongle. There is nothing positive with the dongle itself, it might only be better than the current alternatives.

[drycounty]

Originally Posted by m127

Keep laughing...


Wow, someone who likes to finance the wet paranoid nightmares and the greed of corporate ass holes who are not even musicians... ha!, what a laugh....


.

Wow. So now anyone who develops software that uses copy protection has become "corporate ass holes who are not even musicians..."




I think you've done a whole lot for your argument right there. I've had enough listening to the haters (of dongles) and trying to argue pro-development to people who are obviously still trying to develop themselves.

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by m127

The copy is legally protected. If you or anybody else makes unauthorized copies of it or whatever else, you are not making it less protected BUT breaking the law, and the legal protected status of the software.

Probably shouldn't bother as discussing this with you is like discussing religion with a religious fanatic, but there's no copy protection in reaper. Like there's no copy protection in a CD or in a regular mp3 with no DRM, yet there is copyright, which is a different thing.

Copy protection is something that attempts to prevent illegal duplication, not something that states that duplication is illegal.

But carry on.

[Chrisbeuermann]

Hello M127,

Why are you still using software with a dongle protection ? When I read your posts, then the only thing I read is that you are against it.

1.Why do you not change your all software for non protected software (don't blame the companies now because they make software you need to use)?
2. I have (almost) seen no post from you here http://www.gearslutz.com/board/inter...association-q/ where you could discuss certain things.

Gr,

Chris

[Ca$h Marty]

The only bad experience I've had with dongles is when you cant find the friggin thing and you can't get your DAW started while the band waits.

Which is of course my fault - but still annoying.

[Chrisbeuermann]

Helloo M127

Please stay on topic.

The other things you can ask by the regular Support Request webform in your MySteinberg account.

1.Why do you not change your all software for non protected software (don't blame the companies now because they make software you need to use)?
2. I have (almost) seen no post from you here http://www.gearslutz.com/board/inter...association-q/ where you could discuss certain things.

Gr,

Chris

[Chrisbeuermann]

Hello M127,

you are talking here now for months about copy protection, and how bad it is in your eyes.

I only asked you two questions (and answered one question) but you did not reply on it.

In this case I would say (chris Beuermann as a privat person): Be a man, sell all the copy protected software, and buy/use only software that has no copy protection.

Case closed I think.

Should you have questions left regarding copy protection then I would recommend you to visit IMSTA - Buy the software you use! and have a look to the FAQ's. They also have a forum where you can ask/discuss.

Gr,

Chris

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by Chrisbeuermann

Hello M127,

you are talking here now for months about copy protection, and how bad it is in your eyes.

I only asked you two questions (and answered one question) but you did not reply on it.

In this case I would say (chris Beuermann as a privat person): Be a man, sell all the copy protected software, and buy/use only software that has no copy protection.

Case closed I think.

Should you have questions left regarding copy protection then I would recommend you to visit IMSTA - Buy the software you use! and have a look to the FAQ's. They also have a forum where you can ask/discuss.

Gr,

Chris

Dead horse is long past dead

[Chrisbeuermann]

Case closed indeed. People here have now enough material to draw their own conclusions.

Cool !
Please give now room for topics that are more interesting then your personal battle against copy protection.

Cheers,

Chris

[Monobasser]

Originally Posted by m127

Looking for interesting subjects? what interests you? Porn, cars, other men?

oh dear, are you 15 years old or something?

[kasprouch]

Have to agree with the pisspoor Cubase service - and Cubase.net is scary... screw that place...

get onto the site about 2 years ago at work to ask a simple question, and bam the thread is locked with a semi-violent first post saying that until i submit my dongle code in my profile, i shouldnt look any further... well, f* you very much .

never went back and got my answers here instead... if anybody wants to ask for dongle numbers or cubase.net usernames in GS, f* you too fuuck.

seriously, its pathetic how those who dont use warez want to police their investment. I buy my software because i dont want to steal it... it has nothing to do with whether anyone else is stealing it or not. why it would be relevant to any of us is beyond me...



7rojo7: hope it works out for you, and if that story isnt proof of the nightmare these dongles are.... VFC iLok indeed...

[Monobasser]

Originally Posted by kasprouch

saying that until i submit my dongle code in my profile, i shouldnt look any further... well, f* you very much .

why would that bother you if you are a legitimate customer like you claim?

[kasprouch]

Originally Posted by Monobasser

why would that bother you if you are a legitimate customer like you claim?

exactly because of words like these... having to prove you're not a crook of a product that hadnt yet been cracked is ridiculous. if thats the welcome, well .

[Lawrence]

I don't see the big deal in asking that your dongle number be stored so the crack users don't run rampant there getting help from people who actually paid for the program. At least owners know that people they help have actually paid for the program. If you notice, regular (really helpful) users are requesting new people enter their dongle number as much as Steinberg is.

Joe Bow from Cocomo: "Please enter your dongle number in your profile and I'll be glad to help you."

It takes all of 2 minutes.

Samplitude Forum Registration: "The registration in the service center and this board is seperate. We'll give you extra rights in the board after registering products in our service center."

[kasprouch]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

I don't see the big deal in asking that your dongle number be stored so the crack users don't run rampant there getting help from people who actually paid for the program. At least owners know that people they help have actually paid for the program. If you notice, regular (really helpful) users are requesting new people enter their dongle number as much as Steinberg is.

Joe Bow from Cocomo: "Please enter your dongle number in your profile and I'll be glad to help you."

It takes all of 2 minutes.

but bro's, there were no crack users of C4 until recently, nevermind 2 years ago. what was the point of the dongle code?

if it was as polite as you put it, as in 'dongle please and i'll gladly help', i would most probably have spent the 2 minutes... but getting the thread locked with a comment from a mod blocking my posting till its done....... another huge customer service fail for steinberg. being suspicious of your customers in a market where the competition is so much more active and pleasant than you is not good business. worse thing about all of it, they have their own clients doing the policing for them. why would anyone bother

the real bottom line for me is that their arrogance is misplaced - when was the last update for C4? in 2008? will there ever be another one or are we forced to pay for our next upgrade in the form of v.5? when will official support for Snow Leopard come? when will it actually begin to work properly on a Mac full stop? how about all the bugs that have been around since SX3?..... or is copy protection more important?

if there was something there to defend with all their might, fine. but compared to the competition, i really dont see it. Steiny's the perfect example of an entity that got burnt by its own obsession with piracy...

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by kasprouch

but bro's, there were no crack users of C4 until recently, nevermind 2 years ago. what was the point of the dongle code?

If I had to speculate I would say because of the SX3 cracks that were still out there. Those applications were not fundamentally different so someone using a crack of SX could easily find guidance for many things in the C4 forum. Then they'd have to have different dongle numbers for every forum? SX/C4? As it is now one dongle number gets you access everywhere. Just a guess... of course I have no way to know that. My only point was that once you know about it just put it in and that's the end of it.

But they should do similar to what Samplitude did... put the dongle requirement FAQ in big letters right on the registration page. I do agree that the FAQ link is something that you'd never necessarily go read until they told you to. If they announced it on the registration page "You must have a dongle number stored in your profile to post in Cubase forums"... then there wouldn't be anything to discuss since everyone would already know about it when they joined the forum.

I suppose one could make a valid argument that this is another case where they missed an easy opportunity to communicate that clearly with customers. Just put it on the registration page. I just read the whole thing and it's not there.

Edit: My bad... it is there... it's just not clear exactly...

We also reserve us the future possibility to modify this forum to restrict access to users only who are registered with legally acquired products. Therefore we may require additional data from you as a condition to keep access to the forums.

It's at the bottom of a full page of text that of course, nobody reads. It should be at the top and very clear... and big. They wrote a lot of words not to be specifically clear about storing the dongle numbers as a condition of using the Cubase forums.

[pultech]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

No they won't... it will just limit the tools these people have access to if they don't want to use them.

You can't even open a pro tools session without an ilok.

I guess it's a good thing that Cuebase and Nuendo sound better and come with loads of nice plugs plus surround out of the box along with 64 bit processing with the Nuendo IIRC. Frank Filipetti might even agree... Then again, he could make a pocket micro cassette sound great
When I'd walk past the door of this control room he worked out of sometimes, the mix sounded better at the door saddle a lot of finished mixes do on good monitors

[colinmiller]

Having to enter your code to sue the forums sounds like a great idea. Then they can be sure to focus their support on legitimate customers. And those legitimate customers get better service. Of course there are those who aren't legitimate who may feel offended. Too bad for them. As a customer, if I used Cubase, I would fully support it. Probably more companies should implement such a system as it seems like a great benefit to the real customers. Most forums don't have much response from tech support themselves because it would just be too overwhelming. But if you could limit it to just legitimate customers, then it becomes a much better support resource.

I do find it ironic though that those claiming everything is cracked, then change the story to anything where this argument doesn't work in their favor is suddenly not cracked.

[Monobasser]

Originally Posted by kasprouch

exactly because of words like these... having to prove you're not a crook of a product that hadnt yet been cracked is ridiculous. if thats the welcome, well .

so you decided to cut yourself off from the help you could have got from the forum? Something doesn't add up here.. professionals don't pay for products and then deliberately not take advantage of the benefits to prove a point. prove a point to who even?

[kasprouch]

Originally Posted by Monobasser

so you decided to cut yourself off from the help you could have got from the forum? Something doesn't add up here.. professionals don't pay for products and then deliberately not take advantage of the benefits to prove a point. prove a point to who even?

who are you trying to prove a point to? first you say im claiming to own a software, now you're saying its unprofessional to be non-supportive of a forum thats run by a not very customer orientated company.

sorry, but what exactly is your point?

Originally Posted by colinmiller

I do find it ironic though that those claiming everything is cracked, then change the story to anything where this argument doesn't work in their favor is suddenly not cracked.

not trying to be offensive here, but what you just wrote makes absolutely no sense. if you read it again, im sure you'd agree...