UAD-1 + Protools + smpte online = nervous breakdown

mattsiegel · 15th July 2005, 11:50 PM

Hi all,
well, I've run int an interesting problem that straddles the boundary between computer recording and ye olde analogue domain: I am running protools 6.9 on my G5 through both an Apogee Rosetta 800 and a Digi 002, chasing smpte from my trusty old MCI jh-110 1-inch 8 track, online obviously, and wanting to use the UAD-2 card that I've used on digital only projects with such pleasure in the past, but have run into a problem.
For those unfamiliar with the UAD-1 and it's RTAS port, it is Universal Audio's fancy VST plug-in card, which has a wrapper made by fxpansion that allows it to be used as an RTAS plug in protools. Unfortunately, protools cannot seemlessly correct for the latency like the native apps can, so they include a plug called Delay-comp that nudges all the other non-lugged-in tracks back to match up with the delayed tracks that the plug-ins are on. whew.
So, my problem is that once I've corrected the latency in protools and all of the tracks are aligned, they are now all slightly delayed from the tracks on tape! So, short of physically dragging all of the tracks in protools back until they match-up, which I'm pretty sure would break my time-code reference, has anyone ever had this problem and solved it? Or heard about anyone havng it and solving it? Or like a good challenge and feel like working with me on solvling it for the greater good of mankind and my own sanity? I know that if anyone can do it it's the folks on this board. Thanks for the help in advance.

max cooper · 16th July 2005, 04:18 PM

I'm running the same rig you are (002 + UAD-1 + Rosetta 800 + dual 2G G5) except for the MCI.

I have the same problem when I want to run a couple of BFD tracks through my outboard; mainly because I let the BFD module generate the sounds all the way to mixdown so there's no way to shift the BFD tracks (since there aren't any recorded tracks.) I end up having to 'commit' to the sounds and 'print' them to the tracks in p-tools. Of course, if you bring the tracks on the MCI into p-tools, you wouldn't have to chase it. I know it seems like a shame, but if you're going to CD with the final product, you're gonna have to go throught the A/D anyway.

Just a thought! I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a nice 1" 8 track, too!

Do you mix down to it as well?

May I ask how long you've had yours and what you paid for it?

Gerax · 18th July 2005, 01:45 PM

Don't know if my solution may be useful for you (tht's because I'm not sure I got your problem exactly, even though I red thru it a few times...

) but what I do with UADed tracks is simply generate a duplicate playlist of the track, and nudge it backward (ahead of its original position...to your left if you understand me

) by the amount of latency indicated in the display. I don't use the compensator plug in on the other tracks. I feel it more natural this way, and in case I want to go back to the original track, should I change my mind on plug in selection, I always have the non nudged track: swapping is istantaneous and you save DSP on additional plugs to load. You only do this for UAD loaded tracks, the rest remains unchanged.

Hope this helps

L.G.

WeekendWanker · 18th July 2005, 01:59 PM

SMPTE? Wow, that brings back some memories (mostly bad) I'm not sure what sort of SMPTE reader you're using, but many of these devices allow you to establish an off-set. If your reader can do this, simply apply offsets (most of them will allow you to do this in quarter frames or even smaller increments) untill you're synced up again. A "2-pop" recorded onto the 8-track and 002 (without the delays obviously) might help you to sync things up quickly. Or, if you know the amount of the delay, just bust out the calculator and figure out how many frames, or sub-frames, you're off.

If you don't have the offset capbility, you could just go with the 2-pop mentioned above and slip the tracks forward until the 2-pops line up. The drag is that if during your mix you decide you want to add or subtract a UAD-1 plug, you have to readjust the offset. It's still easier than what I used to have to go through with trying to sync u a 3/4" video deck, a 24-track and a bunch of MIDI gear and you'll end up with some fat-ass drum track off the eight track.

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15th July 2005, 11:50 PM	#1
mattsiegel Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6	UAD-1 + Protools + smpte online = nervous breakdown Hi all, well, I've run int an interesting problem that straddles the boundary between computer recording and ye olde analogue domain: I am running protools 6.9 on my G5 through both an Apogee Rosetta 800 and a Digi 002, chasing smpte from my trusty old MCI jh-110 1-inch 8 track, online obviously, and wanting to use the UAD-2 card that I've used on digital only projects with such pleasure in the past, but have run into a problem. For those unfamiliar with the UAD-1 and it's RTAS port, it is Universal Audio's fancy VST plug-in card, which has a wrapper made by fxpansion that allows it to be used as an RTAS plug in protools. Unfortunately, protools cannot seemlessly correct for the latency like the native apps can, so they include a plug called Delay-comp that nudges all the other non-lugged-in tracks back to match up with the delayed tracks that the plug-ins are on. whew. So, my problem is that once I've corrected the latency in protools and all of the tracks are aligned, they are now all slightly delayed from the tracks on tape! So, short of physically dragging all of the tracks in protools back until they match-up, which I'm pretty sure would break my time-code reference, has anyone ever had this problem and solved it? Or heard about anyone havng it and solving it? Or like a good challenge and feel like working with me on solvling it for the greater good of mankind and my own sanity? I know that if anyone can do it it's the folks on this board. Thanks for the help in advance.

18th July 2005, 01:45 PM	#3
Gerax Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Prato, Italy Posts: 446	Don't know if my solution may be useful for you (tht's because I'm not sure I got your problem exactly, even though I red thru it a few times... ) but what I do with UADed tracks is simply generate a duplicate playlist of the track, and nudge it backward (ahead of its original position...to your left if you understand me ) by the amount of latency indicated in the display. I don't use the compensator plug in on the other tracks. I feel it more natural this way, and in case I want to go back to the original track, should I change my mind on plug in selection, I always have the non nudged track: swapping is istantaneous and you save DSP on additional plugs to load. You only do this for UAD loaded tracks, the rest remains unchanged. Hope this helps L.G. __________________ Lorenzo Gerace L'Acquario Recording & Post Mobile Recording, Editing, Mixing Prato (PO) Italy info@acquariorecording.it http://www.macchinamagnetica.com

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16th July 2005, 04:18 PM	#2
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,819	I'm running the same rig you are (002 + UAD-1 + Rosetta 800 + dual 2G G5) except for the MCI. I have the same problem when I want to run a couple of BFD tracks through my outboard; mainly because I let the BFD module generate the sounds all the way to mixdown so there's no way to shift the BFD tracks (since there aren't any recorded tracks.) I end up having to 'commit' to the sounds and 'print' them to the tracks in p-tools. Of course, if you bring the tracks on the MCI into p-tools, you wouldn't have to chase it. I know it seems like a shame, but if you're going to CD with the final product, you're gonna have to go throught the A/D anyway. Just a thought! I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a nice 1" 8 track, too! Do you mix down to it as well? May I ask how long you've had yours and what you paid for it?

18th July 2005, 01:59 PM	#4
WeekendWanker Gear nut Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 89	SMPTE? Wow, that brings back some memories (mostly bad) I'm not sure what sort of SMPTE reader you're using, but many of these devices allow you to establish an off-set. If your reader can do this, simply apply offsets (most of them will allow you to do this in quarter frames or even smaller increments) untill you're synced up again. A "2-pop" recorded onto the 8-track and 002 (without the delays obviously) might help you to sync things up quickly. Or, if you know the amount of the delay, just bust out the calculator and figure out how many frames, or sub-frames, you're off. If you don't have the offset capbility, you could just go with the 2-pop mentioned above and slip the tracks forward until the 2-pops line up. The drag is that if during your mix you decide you want to add or subtract a UAD-1 plug, you have to readjust the offset. It's still easier than what I used to have to go through with trying to sync u a 3/4" video deck, a 24-track and a bunch of MIDI gear and you'll end up with some fat-ass drum track off the eight track.