Modartt PianoTEQ, NI Akoustik Piano, Garritan Concert Grand Piano, Synthology Ivory

[Dr.Wu]

yes

[Stiff]

Originally Posted by electro

has 3.5 improved Pianoteq?

I haven't done much direct comparisons with Pianoteq 3 and 3.5, but I did the upgrade in the middle of a piano project that used v3. It's like a veil came off the signal! Sounds way better than before to my ears.

[traumerei1838]

Personally I think Bluthner Model One and Steinway Galaxy are the only acceptable instruments. I'm using apogee d/a and adam audio p22's.
I've been using Ivory too long and I can't get a good sound. it has too much attack. I've actually tried spl transient designer on the damn thing. or I could've simply purchased a better product.
Galaxy has the best 'CD ready' high end, but Bluthner Model One by far has the most phase accurate low end, which is pretty darn important. if only they would collaborate.

[kc2ine]

been comparing recently trupiano with new pianoteq and V-Piano and pianoteq wins easily with trupiano and only by notch with V-Piano. I bought pianoteq
for my RD700GX, sounds amazing.

[MacMacMac]

This thread was last posted in December 2009 ... until kc2ine dropped in a week ago with a brief note.

Well, some of these libraries have been updated since 2009 and I'd like to hear opinions.

I'm especially interested in hearing about Garritan, and about Ivory v2. That's because I now have Ivory v1.5, and I'm thinking about moving to either v2 or to Garritan.

1. I wonder how much more computer (CPU speed, memory, disk space) might be needed for Ivory v2. I run Ivory v1.5 on a laptop with Core Duo 5300 @ 1.73 GHz, 2 GB RAM, Windows XP. It runs fine. But will it handle Ivory v2? Will it handle Garritan?

2. Comments on the sound quality of these libraries? My motivation for change is that Ivory v1.5 does not have half-pedal, but v2 does. But does Garritan have that?

3. Also, I'd like to hear more about them, besides the half-pedal.

[electro]

Got Pianoteq Play.

It sounds real. Can't imagine getting a better piano sound ITB.

[Tui]

Originally Posted by MacMacMac

I'm especially interested in hearing about Garritan, and about Ivory v2. That's because I now have Ivory v1.5, and I'm thinking about moving to either v2 or to Garritan.

I have Ivory 1 and intended to upgrade to 2, but it appears 2 uses the same samples as 1 and doesn't sound much different or better. Judging from the demos, the Garritan seems a much better option.

I now primarily use Alicia's Keys, which I think sounds wonderful. It's also very responsive.

[lhorwinkle]

Does Garritan support half-pedal?

[Techeverlasting]

Originally Posted by Tui

I have Ivory 1 and intended to upgrade to 2, but it appears 2 uses the same samples as 1 and doesn't sound much different or better. Judging from the demos, the Garritan seems a much better option.

I now primarily use Alicia's Keys, which I think sounds wonderful. It's also very responsive.

I agree that Alicia's Keys is amazing, especially considering the price and lack of dongle.

Ivory 2 does sound much better than Ivory 1 - I have both and have done extensive comparisons. The sound in 2 is clearer and more defined, and there are some new options in terms of sympathetic resonance, although that aspect doesn't really impress me. There are also significantly more velocity layers - up to 18, so it definitely isn't using exactly the same samples.

My current favorite piano emulation is Ivory 2 with the sympathetic resonance turned off layered with PianoTeq at a lower level with its sympathetic turned way up. This gives me Ivory's realism and Pianoteq's amazingly organic resonance.

[optofonik]

After demoing a lot of sample based pianos I settled on Modartt. I think it "plays" better. My controller has always been fully weighted 88 keys so I know it isn't the variable. When I played using Modartt it "felt" more real and as a result I was inspired to play more.

If I listened to recordings of all the sampled pianos I've demoed I don't know if I would pick the Modartt as the best sounding but it certainly wouldn't stand out as inferior to the rest in any way and, in the end, I don't care. What's important is what inspires me to play and write.

[MacMacMac]

I tried v2.2 long ago, and it was terrible.
I tried the first v3 release after that. Much better, but still unimpressive.
I've just downloaded the Pianoteq demo, version 3.6.7, and I'll give that a try tomorrow.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Ernest Cholakis

ProAudioVault posted two new demos by the musician David Arivett.

Dr. Dave is a funky jazzy demo in a New Orleans flavor with drums, bass and tenor sax that come in after a solo piano intro.

Let's Boogie is a solo boogie piano piece with a little jazzy flavour and a touch of Jerry Lee Lewis blended in for good measure.

Here is the link Funky Demos

Ernest Cholakis
Numerical Sound/ProAudioVault
Numerical Sound
Pro Audio Vault

I remember listening to the BDMO samples a while back and really liking it. Listening to it again really makes me want to get it. I just upgraded to Ivory II, and it is very good. But the BDMO brings something intimate to the table that is simply beautiful. I can't justify spending over 300$ right now, but it will definitely be my next virtual piano

[lhorwinkle]

I just tried the Pianoteq v3.6.7 demo. I remain unimpressed.

Ivory is better. So is Garritan Steinway.

Pianoteq is certainly piano-ish. But it lacks the lively realism of the others.

[famousbass]

Having done a jazz pianist's trio album last year we were all knocked out by Ivory which became the piano of the album. No jazz reviewer picked it. And we never told them...
BTW the Italian Grand library is perfect for pop IMO.

[Phil Aiken]

Ivory and the other sample libraries SOUND better, but there is something about the playability of Pianoteq which is nice. Also, for live use with a full band, especially when running in mono, it has some definite advantages. I expect that it will only get better and better as time goes on, while the sample based instruments are pretty close to their ceiling at this juncture.
So for sessions with no piano, right now I use Ivory or one of the Sampletekk pianos, but at gigs, I use both of those, and sometimes Pianoteq in monophonic mode.

[MacMacMac]

Regarding playability of Pianoteq. I've heard that exact phrase used many times, but I don't understand exactly what it means. Can you explain??

[Phil Aiken]

Originally Posted by MacMacMac

Regarding playability of Pianoteq. I've heard that exact phrase used many times, but I don't understand exactly what it means. Can you explain??

To me it means:
The sense of finger to sound connection - the smoothness of the tonal transition in response to velocity when compared to a sampled piano with 12-16 samples spread across the dynamic range, the interaction between sustained notes, the ability to respond to a full range of pedal motion.....just the general sense of control one feels.

There are sampled pianos that sound wonderful, certainly better than Pianoteq, when you hear some notes in isolation, or even when you hear someone play them well, but just don't provide you with the same sense of connectedness when you sit down to play.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Phil Aiken

To me it means:
The sense of finger to sound connection - the smoothness of the tonal transition in response to velocity when compared to a sampled piano with 12-16 samples spread across the dynamic range, the interaction between sustained notes, the ability to respond to a full range of pedal motion.....just the general sense of control one feels.

There are sampled pianos that sound wonderful, certainly better than Pianoteq, when you hear some notes in isolation, or even when you hear someone play them well, but just don't provide you with the same sense of connectedness when you sit down to play.

Exactly. That's why I mostly track piano while monitoring the output of my Kawai MP9000. MIDI controls Ivory II, but the Kawai somehow seems more responisve, more real. Of course, never like the real thing, but I have neither the space nor the money for a Disklavier (just yet).

[Bullseye]

The difference between sample based and physical modeling is what is meant by playability in at least one sense. That is to say sample based pianos tend to have an uneven response to velocity articulations. Just not smooth with the control of a real piano. Pianists will agree that the depth of expression of a fine Steinway for instance that has been well maintained is beyond the reach of emulations. This is ever so evident in sampled pianos and it takes away from the subtlety.

Of course, if you are banging out chords with a rock band it won't much matter. However, if you are playing with one or two other acoustic instruments or solo or with just a singer, it WILL matter.

Enter physical modeling. I have tried the V piano. In regards to smooth velocity sensing, it is very good. Not, of course, as good as the real thing, but not as expensive and difficult to maintain.

I have heard pianoteq on their website. Sounds pretty good. I intend to demo it and see if it solves the problem. I have a Yamaha CP33 and a NORD Stage EX. Both of these are very good though software and physical modeling have caught up and are running with the ball at this point.

As stated above, it does seem like modeling will be the ultimate winner in the race to second best.

[dr_Jezz]

Recently bought Garritan Steinway basic at a ridiculously good price and also Alicia's keys at the same time. Although the Garritan (basic is audience perspective only and has the sound and 10 layers of the full version) is good, I've not used it since firing up Alicia's keys. That's a beauty, even the very slight imperfections are realistic. Pianotech, and physical modeling generally for me, is Marmite. I'm not a lover. As far as I'm concerned, currently sampling simply sounds better than modelling (expensive Roland hardware perhaps excepted) a la Pianotech or Lounge Lizzard, BUT that playability thing is true. More people really should take a leaf from Techeverlasting's book and try layering Pianotech under a piano in the way he/she describes. You might expect to get a flamming mess, but you can actually get a genuine symbiosis which sounds better than either source alone. True pianos was mentioned earlier, again, has its uses and is playable but the sound just isn't there. Have demoe'd and listened to most stuff and my 2p is that very few people will go wrong with Scarbee's Alicia's keys (like his fab Rhodes/Wurly etc which I have in EXS format) and most will be delighted. Oh, and it's inexpensive and has no dongle, like Steinway.

[The Buddha Rats]

Bought the Rain Piano years ago- it's really good. Also worth mentioning are the pianos offered by Imperfect Samples. They've got uprights, and grand piano sample sets.

[Oden]

Pianotec:

PRO: It acts more like real piano. The pedal sounds like not just the sample sustaining.

Con: Doesnt sound like a piano.


Any sample thing:

PRO: sounds like piano.

CON: doesn't act like piano so may as well use one that's over the top..


Conclusion: Pianotec or Korg legacy collection playing M1 piano