Soft Synths sound bad while checking mix in 'mono'

[ilovesound]

hello ...

I saw a thread on one of the other forums talking about 'phasing' ... I use soft synths quite a bit when composing etc ... I notice that alot of them (like Vanguard) are huge sounding until you push to 'mono' buttom on the mixer and then the sound almost dissappears. Being that I do alot of club music and keyboards are really important, I am wondering if anybody else has experienced the same thing, and is there a fix for something like this?

I notice that when I use the PAZ meter to see what is going on, there is alot of 'antiphasing' happening with pluggins like Vanguard. Any idea how to eliminate this 'antiphasing' in protools? I have tried using the phase invert feature in the digirack pluggins but this doesn't correct the issue.

Maybe these sort of pluggins are trying to create too much 'fake stereo' effect.

Regards,
ian

[radiospace]

I'm not familiar with Vanguard, but with most softsynths you should be able to create mono patches on the synthesizer. Turn off any onboard effects (reverb, delay, etc.) that would create a stereo signal. Make sure the synth's mixer has all elements panned to the center.

[ilovesound]

I guess I should clarify ... I want the synths in stereo, but when I am mixing, and put my mix in 'mono', the synths dissappear ...

[5down1up]

thats what radiospace was saying

if u pan em hard left & right , use all the fx ( modulation , delays , etc ) etc ,
MONO will never be your friend .

use the search function , you should find a lot of interresting stuff bout " mixing synths " .

[defjamm]

Originally Posted by ilovesound

I guess I should clarify ... I want the synths in stereo, but when I am mixing, and put my mix in 'mono', the synths dissappear ...

what radiospace said!

export them in mono without effects and build your own stereo with effects in the mix.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by ilovesound

hello ...


... Maybe these sort of pluggins are trying to create too much 'fake stereo' effect.

Bingo.

There oughta be a sticky post on "stereoizing," fake-stereo, "spatial enhancement," "3D stereo," yadda yadda.

Many of these FX work in part by inverting the phase of some or all of the signal on one side. Ergo, when you combine the two, now-oppositely-phased signals, much or all of the sound is 'canceled' out as the two channels are summed. If you (or your v-synth) started with a mono signal and then played those phase tricks, there's probably not gonna be much left.


It's a cruel irony that some of the very people who have to worry about that most (electronic producers and djs), since they may well have their stuff played over mono sound systems, are the one's most inclined to fall under the spell of the stereoizer siren song.

Electronic and hip hop producers are also prime candidates, in many cases, for being pressed onto vinyl -- and phase problems can kick the crap out of vinyl mastering. I've never seen a cutting lathe without an oscilloscope someplace nearby.


A good, quick and dirty method of checking your mix for phase issues is to listen in mono. If things disappear, you have phase cancellation. Not only will that have the same effect when played over a mono club PA or received on a mono radio or TV, but it will also mess with vinyl cutting and PB.

[ilovesound]

Thanks!! Being that I do alot of club music I hear this happening alot!!! Unfortunately, alot of what makes these sounds is this large 'stereo' effect. If I was to take the soft synth ... put it on a mono audio track in PT, the synth doesn't sound good at all.

I am wondering then, do you know of any pluggins that allow you to correct these phase issues? PAZ shows the anitphase stuff going on, but I don't see a pluggin that allows you to fix these exact problems.

Thanks

[max cooper]

Ya gotta make synth sounds that sound good in mono. Otherwise, how would they ever sound good on a mono club system?

Look, when ya get a synthesizer, first thing you do is plug it in the wall. Second thing you do is dump all the presets. And I mean dump them so that you can never get them back again.

Anyone who lived through the era of the DX7's 'harmonica' patch will probably agree.

[Musiclab]

Thats why I'm not a fan of plug in synths. Something always doesnt sound right to me with the stereo. Sometimes its phase, sometimes depth or the lack of.