Metric Halo 2882 or Steinberg MR816

[AdamJay]

From a pure hardware standpoint, the dynamic range on the 2882's D/A is ridiculous, 120dB
Nothing too outrageous for A/D though, 110dB

compare with Steinberg 110dB/107dB respectively. I have read that the Steinberg supports latency free monitoring.

I particularly like the routing on the 2d Metric Halo's, you can download the MIO Console mixer and check it out yourself. Metric Halo Mobile I/O Driver

Sure the 2882 2d is twice the price, but its the price you pay to get out of the endless upgrade cycle that is the norm with every other firewire device on the market. The 2882 was the first OSX Firewire interface, and its future proof, so expect it to also be the last.

[tribeofenki]

Hyia, used the ULN 2, latter version of MHLabs in the past, and yes:
the MIO Console is a whole world where you get almost everything you need with the +dsp license.
Worth checking as state of the art in Audio Box engineering.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

From a pure hardware standpoint, the dynamic range on the 2882's D/A is ridiculous, 120dB
Nothing too outrageous for A/D though, 110dB
compare with Steinberg 110dB/107dB respectively.

sound is not specs.

measured with free RMAA5.5
http://audio.rightmark.org
emu 1820m has near flawless 120dB dynamic range and noise floor, similar to lynx aurora,
and Roland MMP-2 dont ,
but... Roland sounds soo much better in the mid range and lows.

emu1820m has 192k chips similar to ua192 and pt hd 192io, but becouse the analog circuit design in emu 1820m is verry cheap and the wordclock is so bad, the worse op-amps ever.
sounds verry muddy colored sound.

instead Roland has a not so good chip, but verry nice analog circuit design,
with same wordclock.
or both with internal clocks, Roland sounds better.

and the wordclock affects like crazy, and wordclock cable even more.
forget about DDS PLL clocks like lynx or RME, get hiquality temperature controlled crystal or atomic clock.
with the best 99.997% OFC cables.

the few things ive heard recorded with metric halo, sounded colored, non transparent to me
mr816 sounds transparent and a bit hyped to me.

all comes down to personal taste.
but also drivers, etc...

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by space2012

sound is not specs.

of course... hence the "from a pure hardware standpoint" preamble

[astronmr20]

I can only speak to the 2882, and how incredible it sounds, how rock-solid it is, and how great the company is. There's a reason that it's VERY hard to find used MH boxes.. and they tend to go close to full price when you can find 'em.

I did a real side-by-side with the 2882 and a MOTU traveler... I was trying to decide which one to buy. Now most people would say that's not a comparison because the 2882 is intended to be in a different class.. but once I heard the difference up close on my system with my monitors, I shipped the MOTU back to Sweetwater faster than you could say "UpS Label." Night and day in every way to my ears.

I have not heard the Steinberg interface yet... and don't know much about stability/ drivers, etc.

it looks really promising and at half the price that's indeed something to consider.

I doubt we'll find anyone who has done any sort of side-by-side...

[A440]

Yes the MH 2882 is expensive, but boy do you get what you pay for. I'd say if you can afford it get the 2882, you love it and you'll be set for years.

[kalle789]

Thanks for the input.

I have an ULN-2 so I know about the quality of MH. The gear and the company!!

I need an interface for tracking drums. The pre amps on the 2882 doesn't have the best reputation and they are quite old. That's why the MR816 caught my attention. And then there is the integration with Cubase. MH don't offer similar DAW integration.

[macyu]

Same as the others here; I bought a 2882 with 2d expansion when it came out, so I just don't have to worry when new interfaces come out. The 2882 is rock solid, and very versatile.

There are the occasional bugs and missing features, but the company is very responsive and I can trust them and the community to give me personal advice to get me through - that is, until a new upgrade comes out that solves the problem altogether. Case in point; being able to use physical controllers with the unit was a popular feature request. I think most people figured that they would fix the Mackie HUI support, but they went ahead and implemented EuCon as well!

[henryrobinett]

I wouldn't worry about the 2882 2D pres for recording drums, unless the drums and drummer are very, very quiet. With 2D forget it. I haven't heard the Steinberg unit, but I can confidently say it's a no brainer.

[mh_bj]

Originally Posted by kalle789

And then there is the integration with Cubase. MH don't offer similar DAW integration.

Well -- to be correct -- Cubase does not offer similar integration with the MIO as it does with Steinberg’s interfaces.

But we DO offer ConsoleConnect, which provides integration between our interfaces and every DAW on the Mac, including Cubase (and all the other ones too).

FWIW.

[mahasandi]

i love the 2882 wonderful ad/da and software. great in a studio , or to take to locations.excellently supported
both in software and hardware; rare.

[Banjo]

Another alternative may be to add a Mackie 800R via ADAT or a similar product for the extra channels. I have 2 ULN2 units and the Mackie and a DAV 1U all working seamlessly with low/no latency with all the great features that the Halo brings. Denis House....

[AdamJay]

One thing you need to keep in mind:
If you do happen to get the 2882 2D, while it can happen to folks owning only one MH box, it is near impossible to prevent those who own more than one MH box from protesting their undying devotion to metric halo. As evident in this thread.
Its not an overnight metamorphosis, but usually after the next product update from all the other companies who have released 10 firewire units in the time since the 2882 was first introduced... once those companies release their next generation of throw-away junk, you'll be ever more proud that you're not participating in that "out with the old" update cycle.
Its a definite side effect and you should take it into consideration when making your purchase.

[astronmr20]

Originally Posted by kalle789

Thanks for the input.

I have an ULN-2 so I know about the quality of MH. The gear and the company!!

I need an interface for tracking drums. The pre amps on the 2882 doesn't have the best reputation and they are quite old. That's why the MR816 caught my attention. And then there is the integration with Cubase. MH don't offer similar DAW integration.

The 2882 is more than adequate for drum tracking in regards to preamps.

[Ossicle]

Bump.

I would be really nice to get opinions from anyone who has tried both of them. I would not use the pre's though, so my main concern is line level A/D and D/A.

The Steinberg (650 eur) seems like the best deal out there for under 1000 eur but is the 2882 (1500 eur) siginficantly better?

[loaf]

just got a second hand 2882 (unexpanded) and pleasantly surprised at how good the preamps are compared to my uln-2 - definately not 'just for drums'

[MERC476]

Originally Posted by Ossicle

Bump.

I would be really nice to get opinions from anyone who has tried both of them. I would not use the pre's though, so my main concern is line level A/D and D/A.

The Steinberg (650 eur) seems like the best deal out there for under 1000 eur but is the 2882 (1500 eur) siginficantly better?

Im interested in knowing this as well. Anyone here try both of them?



Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks?

"I never had Dunkin Donuts but Starbucks kicks ass! That's a no brainer...get Starbucks!"

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by MERC476

Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks?

Not exactly...more like Seattle's Best vs Starbucks!

[kosty]

I'm thinking of buying either the 2882 DSP or the MR816X.

Are there any new user reviews about this topic ?

[fizzler]

Originally Posted by Banjo

Another alternative may be to add a Mackie 800R via ADAT or a similar product for the extra channels. I have 2 ULN2 units and the Mackie and a DAV 1U all working seamlessly with low/no latency with all the great features that the Halo brings. Denis House....

+1

Why not just add an 8-channel mic pre with ADAT outs?

[n8tron]

I'm confused how metric halo gear is "future proof". Are you able to upgrade the converters or preamps after you buy them? What makes them future proof?

[turtlejon]

and be careful with the 2882 on anything quieter than drums. i can get about 27 or 28 db of gain before it starts to get too hissy. i read that they were not the loudest amps, but i didn't realize they were THAT quiet. if you do mostly rock or dance music, no prob. but for classical, jazz, world, folk, a capella, room mics, etc. it may not be the best choice. maybe mine is defective, but i get a LOT of noise, esp compared to my motu box, or the duet.

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by turtlejon

and be careful with the 2882 on anything quieter than drums. i can get about 27 or 28 db of gain before it starts to get too hissy. i read that they were not the loudest amps, but i didn't realize they were THAT quiet. if you do mostly rock or dance music, no prob. but for classical, jazz, world, folk, a capella, room mics, etc. it may not be the best choice. maybe mine is defective, but i get a LOT of noise, esp compared to my motu box, or the duet.

I've had this experience as well, however, it hasn't really been a problem that many times. Prior to getting a ULN-8 to handle the quieter inputs, I used a set of 7th Circle pres when I needed more gain. Great combination. I know it seems like a silly thing to have to get external pres for a box like this, but I already had them, and I thought of it more as an opportunity to use different flavors in front of the MH conversion.

[barryjohns]

I just picked up a ULN-2 and love it. Holds its own nicely with my Lynx Aurora 16.

[wavcatcher]

I've had both the MR816 and the MH2882.

Here's my personal review.

MR816 The good:
The MR816 has very good sounding A-D. Very,very good. The D-A was also good but I slightly preferred my Benchmark DAC1 so always used it as my primary stereo D-A. The MR816 headphone jacks were acceptable if compared to something like a Mackie mixer etc.. but were nothing close to the quality of the Benchmark DAC1 headphone outs. They were not well suited to driving 600 ohm headphones like Senn 600's or 250 ohm Beyer Dt770's.

The MR816 mic pres are amazing. Very usable, very clean, and very open and clear. I used them for VO, Foley and acoustic guitar all with completely acceptable results. The have a huge amount of usable real world gain and sounded excellent with Senn 421's Beyer M88's AKG C414's and Neuman U87's. Honestly the mic pre and A-D conversion of the MR816 are excellent and hold their own against any combo I've used as long as you want clean and clear.

MR816 the bad
The drivers were terrible. The worst I've used. Unstable to the point of infuriating. I used the MR816 for over 1 year and never trusted it. I understand some PC owners had better luck than Mac users and some firmware/driver upgrades were released after I sold my MR816 so maybe this has improved. If I recall correctly the MR816 firewire issue was that nothing, could be on the same firewire bus, not port but the actual firewire bus as the Mr816. You have to dedicate a firewire bus to just the MR816 and this isn't a realistic option for many users. There is simply no excuse for making a driver so shoddy that is is a requirement when so many other interfaces can be reliable with other drives etc sharing a firewire bus. The drivers constantly dropped out and lost the firewire connection numerous times per hour. The end result was the MR816 was simply the most unreliable firewire audio interface I ever had or used and I've used many interfaces with many rigs both in major studios and on location gigs or in private client studios. I've designed and installed systems from world class to owner operated and know my ways around setting up a reliable DAW system.

The Routing.
The MR816 routing is very limited. Also, using the spdif i/o takes away 2 adat i/o. This was shocking to me. I've never seen other interfaces work this way, you usually get 8 analogue 8 Adat and 2 AES/Spdif. So remember its called the MR 8 Sixteen not MR 8 Eighteen!

The MR816 onboard Fx
Not well thought out. If you setup a verb in tracking you cant use the same settings on playback. You only hear the verb on the input signals. This made the fx useless for me as you had to setup another vst verb in order to simulate the one you were using on Mr816 dsp. You can read the threads about it on numerous forums but Steinberg really didn't implement the DSP well at all on this unit.

The MH2882 - The Good
Very similar A-D to MR816 but I seem to like the MH2882 D-A even more than the MR816's. This wasn't a direct A-B test so YMMV. What I do know is that both units A-D is excellent and real-world usable for pro results.

The 2882 headphone amp is almost good enough that I am currently considering selling my DAC1. This was a big surprise for me, I love my DAC1 but honestly the 2882 conversion and headphone amp has me considering selling my DAC1 as the differences are so minor. The fact that I'm even considering this is very surprising to me as the DAC1 has been my "Benchmark" since I got it.

Drivers. The Metric Halo drivers are among the best if not the gold standard for firewire audio. They are absolutely rock solid. Regular updates, amazing support and lots of tutorials/training materials readily available.

The Routing and DSP.
Nothing else really like it. The routing options are incredible and the DSP is totally usable. Character and Transient Controller along with the MIO channel strip and MIO limiter all get constant use on my projects now. The Metric Halo Console Connect plug in saves all your routing and fx settings and truly integrates the MIO routing and DSP to every session regardless of the DAW you use. This is brilliant flexibility.

2882 The Bad
The mic pres are no where close to the MR816's. They only give 40 db of gain of which only 20db is clean enough to be usable. If you are using the pre's on loud sources you'll be fine but for anything of medium or soft volume you will need other cleaner pres.

The Summary:
The MR816 has fantastic conversion and mic pre's and NOT just for its price point. However, the drivers were never stable and many users had alot of firewire related issues. (This was while I had mine until the summer of 2010- its possible more recent driver updates have improved performance).

If you need clean and clear pre's with lots of gain and don't need any complex routing or DSP then I would say try the MR816. If you can get it to work reliably on your rig you will have 8 great pre's and a ridiculous amount of high quality conversion for a silly, crazy-low price!

If you want bullet proof drivers with a history of constantly reliable updates along with complex routing and top shelf DSP then get the MH 2882.

The A-D and D-A conversion on both units is good enough that I don't think you could blame either unit's converters for recording or mix failures. Meaning, if you can't make a balanced great sounding final mix on either one of these units its not the gears fault it is yours. Period.

The headphone amp on the MH2882 is significantly better than the MR816's.

The Metric Halo, monitor control capabilities and DSP deserve another mention as the MH routing, DSP and conversion all combine to make it a combination solution unlike any other offerings.

In the end I sold my MR816 because I couldn't afford the driver instability in my workflow any longer. I haven't looked back in 6 months and am now one of those wild-eyed Metric Halo owners who are stunned I didn't get into their gear earlier.

Disclaimer,
This post was whipped together in a flurry as I'm about to head out the door, I can provide more detail about my issues with the MR816 and reasons behind my moving on from it to the 2882 if desired but ultimately I stand by my experience with the unit. I suggest anyone interested in the MR816 try one from somewhere with a good return policy and see if you can get it work reliably. If you can then smile big knowing you have amazing quality conversion for less than $700 bucks along with great pres.

Disclaimer 2
I'm actually a heavy Nuendo user. So I really wanted the MR816 to work for me and tried far longer than I probably should have to get the MR816 to be stable. I really wanted an integrated Steinberg solution as I also use the CC121 hardware controller, however after more than a year of instability I realized I couldn't continue waiting and had to get a reliable solution. After having the MH2882 for 6 months of 40-60 hrs per week of use I can say its been rock solid for me and I'm thrilled with it.

[Big_Bang]

Thank you very much for your review!

I've been thinking of picking one up, hopefully I'll chime in too with my findings, but it sure seems the mr816 is setting the bar way up!

[StereoPari]

The MR816 drivers were rock solid when I used it in Windows for over a year.

On Mac it's true that you shouldn't put a hard drive on the same bus with it...other than that, the drivers have been solid on my Mac too.

And yes it's an amazing unit for the price...

[DSPaudio]

+1 2882

[junior]

+2 on the 2882...

FYI, the key to the preamp gain issue is to simply use higher-output (condenser) mics when recording quiet sources. For drums and amps, dynamic / ribbon mics work fine.

Here's a really useful formula for checking your mics with the 2882:
MIO2882 Microphone Matching List | A-NO-NE Music

"Sensitivity c.a. 20mV/Pa recommended to use with MIO
Note: High sensitivity may be only needed when tracking quiet source such as classical music from distance.

The Fomula

If x = sensitivity in dBV e.g. -66dBV/microbar(.1Pa)

then sensitivity in mV is

10^(x/20) * 1000

or .5mV/microbar - to get mV/Pascal multiply by 10 which gives 5mV/Pa for the Core Sound mics.

- Joe Buchalter, Metric Halo"

You can find the output sensitivity specs for most mics on the market here:
Microphone Data - Home