Just switched to Logic from Pro Tools couple questions

[gusegruv]

I just switched my studio from Pro Tools 7.3 to Logic 8 and have a couple quick questions.

When we Mix Down I run everything threw my Apogee Track 2 & Dangerous DBox and back into Pro Tools and I also add the MCDSP Analog Channel plug in for the final crack to the mix. But the Analog Channel is only RTAS, is there anything similar to it for Audio Units?
I been working on a new track and just for the fun of it did I bounced it ITB and it dosent even hold a candle to my mixes in Pro Tools. with my Analog Channel, Dbox and Track 2.

Also in Pro Tools when you want to bring everything down say 3 db you can select all tracks and lower the volume, is there a way to do this in Logic?

Thanks

[Rick Hoekman]

Originally Posted by gusegruv

Also in Pro Tools when you want to bring everything down say 3 db you can select all tracks and lower the volume, is there a way to do this in Logic?

Thanks

Go into the mixer window (press X) and you can select the first track hold the mouse and swipe select the tracks you want. Shift click will deselect single tracks you may not want. Now you can adjust the volume of all the channels.

[gusegruv]

thank you!



anyone on a plug in that is as good as the MCDSP Analog Channel for getting that crack on the 2 bus, thats AU?

[Lagerfeldt]

You're looking at some kind of saturator, exciter or enhancer. Sonnox Oxford Inflator perhaps?

That's purely psychoacoustic and does not involve dynamic processing as such.

Sonnox Oxford Plugins

Overview
The Inflator is a unique process that can provide an increase in the apparent loudness of almost any programme, without obvious loss of quality or audible reduction of dynamic range, yet avoiding damaging increases in the peak level of the signal. The inflator process can also bring power, presence and warmth to programme material and even provide headroom overload margin above digital maximum with a subtlety and musical character reminiscent of tube systems.

Use the Inflator to produce louder mixes than you thought possible without overloads or compression pumping, or use it to add natural warmth and character to acoustic or jazz mixes.

Features
# Increases the loudness of almost any programme material.
# Creates warmth, character and dynamic excitement, similar to that of analogue systems.
# Provides virtual headroom above digital maximum to allow percussive peaks to pass without causing signal overload.
# Creates artistic effects ranging from subtle tube-like harmonic characteristics for warmth, presence and 'in your face' fatness, to outright saturation distortion modelling.
# Features two modes of operation - direct and band split - for maximum flexibility and artistic creativity. These two modes also ensure optimal DSP usage.

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by gusegruv

in Pro Tools when you want to bring everything down say 3 db you can select all tracks and lower the volume, is there a way to do this in Logic?

Thanks

logic has a Master Fader in the mixer environment, brings gain down from every channel. very useful! i'm on Logic 7 but i believe it's still avail in 8

[gusegruv]

I have the Sony Oxford but not a fan per say.,
On the MCDSP Analog Channel 2,
when you mess with the Roll Off , Bump,Bias and set the IPS it gives a super nice cracks to the low & hi frequencies of the mix. Just makes it warmer and so full of life.


Here is what the AC2 does
Standard tape machine parameters such as bias, playback speeds, and IEC1/2 eq are provided. AC2 offers controlls well beyone the limits of reel-world devices including adjustable low frequency roll off & head bump - independent of playback speed. The user can select from several playback head typle & even controll the rate of tape saturation is dis - engaged. Modern and vintage tape formulations are available.

[Rumpel]

Originally Posted by gusegruv

I have the Sony Oxford but not a fan per say.,
On the MCDSP Analog Channel 2,
when you mess with the Roll Off , Bump,Bias and set the IPS it gives a super nice cracks to the low & hi frequencies of the mix. Just makes it warmer and so full of life.


Here is what the AC2 does
Standard tape machine parameters such as bias, playback speeds, and IEC1/2 eq are provided. AC2 offers controlls well beyone the limits of reel-world devices including adjustable low frequency roll off & head bump - independent of playback speed. The user can select from several playback head typle & even controll the rate of tape saturation is dis - engaged. Modern and vintage tape formulations are available.

Sounds like you could use URS saturation. It does tape emulation and more.

[wildpark]

[QUOTE=gusegruv;3820217]I have the Sony Oxford but not a fan per say.,
On the MCDSP Analog Channel 2,
when you mess with the Roll Off , Bump,Bias and set the IPS it gives a super nice cracks to the low & hi frequencies of the mix. Just makes it warmer and so full of life.

same here the oxford plugs are good but for saturation there are other options !

sounds like you need too trial this ones :


duy analog bundle,i use it in allmost every channel,momently 50 procent janurary offer grab it !!

DUYstore.com

tritone colortone pro,if it right it bangs TriTone Digital - For The Love of Tone!

voxengo vari saturator Voxengo

blue tubes analog bundle,good for 50ths 60ths saturation Nomad Factory - Leader In Tube Emulation Plug-Ins

[spunkadellic]

Originally Posted by gusegruv
in Pro Tools when you want to bring everything down say 3 db you can select all tracks and lower the volume, is there a way to do this in Logic?

Thanks
logic has a Master Fader in the mixer environment, brings gain down from every channel. very useful! i'm on Logic 7 but i believe it's still avail in 8

eeeh...no thats not really the way to do it...the way TrackZero suggested is what you want

----

if you are worried that your mixes sounded better in PT - dont worry - once you get a little more used to logic, you will find that you will like mixing in logic MUCH better!

[ninjaneer]

Originally Posted by gusegruv

anyone on a plug in that is as good as the MCDSP Analog Channel for getting that crack on the 2 bus, thats AU?

Pro Audio DSP - Professional Audio Plugins for Audio Units and Pro Tools

well worth looking at...
you'll need an ilok key to demo for 21 days

videos here:
Dynamic Spectrum Mapper introduction on Vimeo

a new era for plugins.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by ninjaneer

Pro Audio DSP - Professional Audio Plugins for Audio Units and Pro Tools

well worth looking at...
you'll need an ilok key to demo for 21 days

videos here:
Dynamic Spectrum Mapper introduction on Vimeo

a new era for plugins.

Nah, great plugin, but it's not a saturation plugin for the 2buss.

[ninjaneer]

from the man himself...

"The plug in does have saturation control in the form of the 'limit' function, which is a post process designed to control overs and provide a method to push the level higher without causing red lights etc.. This process is also highly optimised to provide the 'right' kind of behaviour (and best sonic and artistic qualities) with the signals that come from the DSM process. Like the rest of the plug-in, the design of this is also based entirely on 'what sounds right' and good artistic perception and taste etc.. As such, this process is fixed and this is why no other controls are provided to modify it - nor is there any attempt to model any other particular device."

there are a few 'tape' presets included - worth checking out.
and agreed it won't be the same as mc dsp... just different for the 2 buss

[Geert van den Berg]

It might add a nice flavour, and it can be used for lots of other things still I wouldn't buy it if the intention is to get some saturation on the 2buss.

Some people seem to like the URS saturation plugin. URS Saturation plug-in

Maybe that's an idea. It has not been mentioned yet.

Unique Recording Software

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Ricey

logic has a Master Fader in the mixer environment, brings gain down from every channel. very useful! i'm on Logic 7 but i believe it's still avail in 8

Don't do that.

Leave the master fader at unity (0).

Turn down the Output 1-2 fader if necessary.

[ninjaneer]

another saturation / harmonics possibility just released by spl..

Short Description: Sound Performance Lab

ilok required.

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Don't do that.

Leave the master fader at unity (0).

Turn down the Output 1-2 fader if necessary.

really? i thought the master fader was the way to uniformly bring down all signals TO the output(s) - the idea being to not over load the ouptut. i always thought that by just bringing down the output it's not dealing with the issue from where it comes....?

[timtoonz]

Originally Posted by spunkadellic

eeeh...no thats not really the way to do it...the way TrackZero suggested is what you want

----

if you are worried that your mixes sounded better in PT - dont worry - once you get a little more used to logic, you will find that you will like mixing in logic MUCH better!

Kind of. Except if you have any automation going on. If you pull all your channels down 3 db in the mixer, they'll snap right back to the original gains if there's any track automation. Unless I'm mistaken, and I kinda hope I am. Coz the lack of a "trim" control in Logic really bugs me...

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by timtoonz

Kind of. Except if you have any automation going on. If you pull all your channels down 3 db in the mixer, they'll snap right back to the original gains if there's any track automation. Unless I'm mistaken, and I kinda hope I am. Coz the lack of a "trim" control in Logic really bugs me...

Lagerfeldt, please chime in! i thought the Master Fader in Logic(i'm using 7.2.3) worked as a Master Trim?

[Stiff]

I've used all the RTAS tape emulators out there, and as you know, most of them are VST/AU as well. None of them work like AC2, for better and for worse. If you want a sound really close to AC2 without using it, I would look at DUY DaD Tape. It doesn't work the same way, but they can be set to act kind of similar. If you dare step into other territories I would suggest checking out VirSyn VTAPE. It's a great tape emulator, but a very different flavour. Good luck in your hunt.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by timtoonz

Kind of. Except if you have any automation going on. If you pull all your channels down 3 db in the mixer, they'll snap right back to the original gains if there's any track automation. Unless I'm mistaken, and I kinda hope I am. Coz the lack of a "trim" control in Logic really bugs me...

You trim after you've done automation by sliding the yellow bar while holding Command, in track automation view. Takes 1 second or less.

http://www.lydmaskinen.dk/video/logi...on/trimall.mov

Originally Posted by Ricey

Lagerfeldt, please chime in! i thought the Master Fader in Logic(i'm using 7.2.3) worked as a Master Trim?

The fader entitled "Master" is a fader for trimming the output of the Output busses (i.e. Output 1-2 and upwards). It does not affect the pre-fader level (the input side, so to speak) of the Outputs. In other words the Master fader does not lower what's being routed to the output and therefore does not help avoid internal overloading of the input in a fixed point plug-in inserted on the Output bus), and it does not affect the individual channels.

This Master fader is the same as the Master Level slider in the right side of the Transport bar. It's useful if you have several output busses you wish to trim. Unless you know what you're doing and have a specific need for that function, I would always remove both the master fader and the master level slider in the transport bar. It can cause confusion and distortion when set incorrectly. Make sure the Master is set at unity (0) and remove the master level slider in the transport bar by control+clicking in an empty area of the bar and removing the tick box entitled "Master Level".

When you lower the level of your Output 1-2 fader (or other output fader) you are only lowering the output. This will do just fine in most cases as Logic operates in 32 bit float and can handle apparent overloading by simply dropping the Output fader. No change in audio quality. But you are still at risk of overloading any inserted plug-ins on the output itself. If you are coming in too hot, and that plug-in doesn't allow for input attenuation (i.e. Waves L2 or similar) you are in trouble. You could even be clipping or causing other havock without knowing it. Which is why you shouldn't peak higher than -6 dBFS to -3 dBFS on your Output when the fader is at unity (0), if you want to be on the safe side.

Okay, sorry for the slightly OT rant.

[whinecellar]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Okay, sorry for the slightly OT rant.

Not even!!! Bro, you just helped a lot of folks understand something that can be pretty hard to describe. I've tried it before, but you did it simply and elegantly. This should be required reading for Logic users - well done, and THANK YOU!

Jim

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

You trim after you've done automation by sliding the yellow bar while holding Command, in track automation view. Takes 1 second or less.

http://www.lydmaskinen.dk/video/logi...on/trimall.mov


The fader entitled "Master" is a fader for trimming the output of the Output busses (i.e. Output 1-2 and upwards). It does not affect the pre-fader level (the input side, so to speak) of the Outputs. In other words the Master fader does not lower what's being routed to the output and therefore does not help avoid internal overloading of the input in a fixed point plug-in inserted on the Output bus), and it does not affect the individual channels.

This Master fader is the same as the Master Level slider in the right side of the Transport bar. It's useful if you have several output busses you wish to trim. Unless you know what you're doing and have a specific need for that function, I would always remove both the master fader and the master level slider in the transport bar. It can cause confusion and distortion when set incorrectly. Make sure the Master is set at unity (0) and remove the master level slider in the transport bar by control+clicking in an empty area of the bar and removing the tick box entitled "Master Level".

When you lower the level of your Output 1-2 fader (or other output fader) you are only lowering the output. This will do just fine in most cases as Logic operates in 32 bit float and can handle apparent overloading by simply dropping the Output fader. No change in audio quality. But you are still at risk of overloading any inserted plug-ins on the output itself. If you are coming in too hot, and that plug-in doesn't allow for input attenuation (i.e. Waves L2 or similar) you are in trouble. You could even be clipping or causing other havock without knowing it. Which is why you shouldn't peak higher than -6 dBFS to -3 dBFS on your Output when the fader is at unity (0), if you want to be on the safe side.

Okay, sorry for the slightly OT rant.

well, it's very on-topic for me so thank you very much for replying! i was always under the impression it was affecting channel output globally. well, the only thing i've ever used it for was to bring the entire output down -3dB before going to the desk, but now i won't even be doing that. cheers.

[oceantracks]

"
When you lower the level of your Output 1-2 fader (or other output fader) you are only lowering the output. This will do just fine in most cases as Logic operates in 32 bit float and can handle apparent overloading by simply dropping the Output fader. No change in audio quality. But you are still at risk of overloading any inserted plug-ins on the output itself. If you are coming in too hot, and that plug-in doesn't allow for input attenuation (i.e. Waves L2 or similar) you are in trouble. You could even be clipping or causing other havock without knowing it. Which is why you shouldn't peak higher than -6 dBFS to -3 dBFS on your Output when the fader is at unity (0), if you want to be on the safe side."

YES. Please listen to this, he is right.

If you have any doubts, get Roger Nichols Inspector (it's free) and check it out. If you have this on the output faders .....you'll see how many times EVEN THOUGH THE OUTPUT AND MASTER FADERS LOOK FINE you are still slamming the INPUT to the 2 mix. You then have two choices, lower the faders, or use Logic's TRIM plug in.

TH

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

"OUTPUT AND MASTER FADERS LOOK FINE you are still slamming the INPUT to the 2 mix. You then have two choices, lower the faders, or use Logic's TRIM plug in.

The plug-in is called the Gain plug-in and can be found under Inserts>Utility>Gain. Insert this as the first plug-in on the Output (1-2). This will indeed make the problem go away.

There is no quality reduction by using that plug-in as it taps into the 32 bit floating point signal and lowers it. It's exactly the same as using the Output fader and lowering, except of course it's done pre-fader.

If you decide to test this with a null test you might not get a complete null, this is due to small cosmetic offsets in the user interface, not an actual sound issue.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by whinecellar

Bro, you just helped a lot of folks understand something that can be pretty hard to describe. I've tried it before, but you did it simply and elegantly. This should be required reading for Logic users - well done, and THANK YOU!

Originally Posted by Ricey

thank you very much for replying! i was always under the impression it was affecting channel output globally. well, the only thing i've ever used it for was to bring the entire output down -3dB before going to the desk, but now i won't even be doing that. cheers.

You're welcome!

[The MPCist]

I don't think there's a plugin that can do what the McDSP AC2 does best! One of the best plugins for mixing in PT/ITB..... Sure hope they could/would make it AU.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

The plug-in is called the Gain plug-in and can be found under Inserts>Utility>Gain. Insert this as the first plug-in on the Output (1-2). This will indeed make the problem go away.

There is no quality reduction by using that plug-in as it taps into the 32 bit floating point signal and lowers it. It's exactly the same as using the Output fader and lowering, except of course it's done pre-fader.

If you decide to test this with a null test you might not get a complete null, this is due to small cosmetic offsets in the user interface, not an actual sound issue.

Right, "GAIN"....I've been back in PT of late and TRIM is on my mind

TH