Anyone using Ocean Way Drums & Steven Slate Drums?

[SEA]

I was wondering if anyone using both Ocean Way Drums & Steven Slate Drums. If so, how do you like them side by side?

Like... how do the cymbals, kicks, snares, toms, etc., compare. Also, what about depth? How many velocity layers?

Do they contain left & right hand samples as well? How playable are they when using an edrum kit?

Thanks,
SEA

[Marty Long]

One thing you need to know is that we are about to launch Steven Slate Drums 3.0, which is a whole nother beast compared to the current version which is 2.0.

So I'd wait till you hear more from 3.0, which has new room mic samples, all new snare samples, more drumkits then 2.0 (now we have 40 since we added 4 more kits from 2.0), new Paiste cymbal pack to add to the current Zildjian/Sabian pack.. new SSD Virtual Instrument which actually uses the same exact engine as Oceanway fwiw.. new BFD2 expansion pack option..

We have a new website launching and I'm not supposed to let too much of the cat out of the bag but here are ten demos of drumkits from 3.0 (REMEMBER WE HAVE 30 MORE!!!! REALLY!!)

RingyHit Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/ringyhit.mp3

BigFatty Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/bigfattywet.mp3

Steely Dan Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/dansteel.mp3

Reggae Ska Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/reggaeska.mp3

Old Zep (Classic Zeppelin):
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/oldzep.mp3

Nashville Fat Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/nashvillefat.mp3

Meat n Potatoes Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/meatnpotatoes.mp3

Never Kit (Nirvana):
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/never.mp3

Ballad Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/ballad.mp3

GreenDef Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/greendef.mp3

and hell, here's an eleventh mp3 demo:

Crisp Rock Kit:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/crisprock.mp3

and here is a little snippet of our new interface:

[SEA]

HOT DANG!!!!!!

If I get 2.0 now... can I upgrade to 3?

If it's better to wait... how long?

SEA

[Marty Long]

glad you like them.. now maybe I won't get in trouble
I didn't post some of my favorite kits so you'll have to wait till the official 3.0 thread for them (like the Slate Custom Kit).. so hang on for that.

At this point I'd say wait for 3.0.. its a few flea hairs away from its release..

Marty

[shanabit]

Ive concluded that Steven Slate is a tease

[VitaEtMusica]

Anyone like 311?

http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/reggaeska.mp3

[Bang]

hell yeah! Love 311. I actually told Slate to name this a 311 model since it sounds so much like it but since he didn't officially model it after a particular 311 record he made the name a bit more generic. That snare is so rockin! I've been working on a little song with my girlfriend thats very No Doubt in style and this kit is PERFECT.

3.0 is soooo close! Everyone keep an eye out in the New Product thread because there will be 30 more demos, video, and more...

Marty
Yellow Matter Entertainment

[SEA]

Does Steven Slate drums have any snare side stick hits and tom rim shots?

Also... any brush or rod kits?

Thanks

[Bang]

it has a really great sidestick sample that cuts nice and hard... no mallets or tom rims.

Marty

[SEA]

Originally Posted by Bang

it has a really great sidestick sample that cuts nice and hard... no mallets or tom rims.

Marty

Do all the kits have a sidestick or just a few?

SEA

P.S. See if Steven can throw some tom rims shots down the road as well

P.P.S. Maybe a refill later on the brush & rod eh?

[Football]

Are you friggin' kidding me with that Zep kit?

F*cking Sick!!!

Can't wait.

[CensuraDrummer]

Steven Slate Drums 3.0 includes sidesticks on all kits. Also Rolls. :D

[Schmeckitup]

Wonderful sounds for the Steven Slate drums. I look forward to seeing V3.
I have a question about the engine, though. I'm friends with Steven Miller (OWD engineer), and he said they worked with NI to seriously tweak Kontakt under the hood to get it sounding the way they wanted. Are their changes to the Kontakt engine available to other developers or incorporated in newer versions of the program?

[Squids]

Originally Posted by Schmeckitup

Wonderful sounds for the Steven Slate drums. I look forward to seeing V3.
I have a question about the engine, though. I'm friends with Steven Miller (OWD engineer), and he said they worked with NI to seriously tweak Kontakt under the hood to get it sounding the way they wanted. Are their changes to the Kontakt engine available to other developers or incorporated in newer versions of the program?

It mostly has to do with development tools and "Scripting" as opposed to visible features for Kontakt users. But, that said, eventually Kontakt may have more features thanks to sound developers requests.

By the way, guys, a more direct comparison to SSD would probably be our Studio ProFiles series and our Infinite Player where the approach was more similar in terms of specific character modeled kits such as the styles of Bonham, Ringo etc. or specific artists in Drum Masters of the Ken Scott Collection. I'll throw a few links to demos since you have some from SSD to listen to. Some you really can compare more apples to apples... like comparing the sound of the Bonham-esque kits or others if you want. The Ringo kit too although my favorite Ringo kit I've done hasn't been released yet. I recorded it at British Grove with the original REDD 51 console - same model the Beatles used. Can't wait until that's done.

[VitaEtMusica]

Originally Posted by Squids

By the way, guys, a more direct comparison to SSD would probably be our Studio ProFiles series and our Infinite Player where the approach was more similar in terms of specific character modeled kits such as the styles of Bonham, Ringo etc. or specific artists in Drum Masters of the Ken Scott Collection. I'll throw a few links to demos since you have some from SSD to listen to. Some you really can compare more apples to apples... like comparing the sound of the Bonham-esque kits or others if you want. The Ringo kit too although my favorite Ringo kit I've done hasn't been released yet. I recorded it at British Grove with the original REDD 51 console - same model the Beatles used. Can't wait until that's done.

So... I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what the ProFiles and Drum Masters products are. Are they loops/grooves in a rex/acid/etc format? Are they playable sample libraries a la SSD, DFH, BFD, etc? Both? I can't really wrap my head around it from the info on your website. Regardless, from the samples on your pages they sound nice. Perhaps the same intent as the SSD library, but not in the same genre. SSD's=the sound of modern rock/pop/metal production. Your stuff seems to be on the softer side. Less "produced." Which, btw, a lot of people ask for.

I too am turned off by the price of the SR stuff (OWD, ProFiles, and Drum Masters). I say this knowing I could afford it, but why spend that much? I can buy three or four libraries of amazing sounding drums (more if I go the drumagog route) for the same price as one of SR's products. The product would have to be quite unique to warrant that kind of price tag. I haven't heard anything about it that lets me know it is such a product. Yes, they sound really nice, but don't they all? Is it really 10-15x times better than my upgrade to DFHS2? I don't think SR is trying to gouge anyone, they just went the really expensive route with creating the library. SSDs, on the other hand, have gone the total guerilla route. So you get this great library (not the cheapest, but modest in comparison to OWD) and you end up being blown away by the cost to value ratio. I really don't want to sound too down on OWD. I think they sound as good or better than the next guy, and I like all the SR products I own.

I think I own every drum library out there except OWD, if that means anything. I should also say I am an advocate for getting things done at the highest possible level while spending the least amount of money. I do not like dog and pony shows, do not care who recorded a sample library or hit the skins. If it sounds good, it is good.

[Squids]

Yes, behind the dog and pony show there's simply the details of the product, how it was made, what was used to make it and whose sort of style in the engineer/production or programming... these are some of the reasons why it should sound good but in the end either it does or it doesn't... and to each person's tastes on top.

If you watch my videos explaining the I-Map here: http://www.oceanwaydrum.net/videos.php on the right hand side you can see the benefits of the particular type of mapping which makes a difference in the way it can be played from the keyboard. Fluid rolls, ghost notes and other elements with left and right stick that are a particular "Sonic Reality Style" approach.

As far as the cost, we have a lot of people involved that have to get paid to do these kinds of products. I mean, we do have our own professional studio in Miami and I could do it all there myself and charge less. But, I have to admit that part of the reason I like to do these big projects is because I want something for myself too that I wouldn't otherwise be able to attain! I couldn't afford to book Ocean Way Studios solid for two months to record samples for my own music... let alone have Allen Sides and Steven Miller work even longer on it making album ready mixes for me. But, doing this partnership with them has made a product like this possible and now I DO have it! So do you if you buy it. It's a very different sound than I would get on my own anywhere else or that anyone else has.

If you want that Ocean Way sound with the blending of the three rooms and the particular sounds of that rather large set of mic mixing options per instrument or perhaps the ready to go mixes from Sides/Miller then it's worth it! If $1k is too much we have a Silver Edition coming with about half the kits for half the price but with the same features. If that's still too much then wait to see what we announce in a few days and decide if you can resist any longer. Haha.

Regarding Studio ProFiles, I'd be happy to explain it at length but since the thread topic is more about OWD and SSD I think it'd be better in another thread. If you want to start a thread asking questions about Drum Masters, Infinite Player or Studio ProFiles or all three then I will be happy to explain the whole thing. In fact, there's a unique key to those multi-track Rex files that gets into a whole OTHER territory that hasn't been covered yet for drum track creation and there's a lot of interesting things there talking about how to tailor some really great drummer's grooves and integrating them with the multi-track kits. I only brought them up because it seems Steve Slate is into some similar "vintage" rock drum sounds from Led Zep to Beatles to Steely Dan. I am too and that's one of the things we went for in the Studio ProFiles series. Yes, less processed (ie. NOT processed) and more for using things like T-Racks 3 Fairchilds, UAD or whatever other virtual or analog gear you've got and you're dying to use on the directs or rooms... Like I am.

[VitaEtMusica]

Dude, you are a pretty sick finger drummer. I like the rooms of OWD a lot, I can appreciate you going to the right place for the job.

I see your gold edition is only $800- that's not terrible. I've definitely spent more on less. Let's see what NAMM turns up!

[xjaredcolbyx]

I currently own Steven Slate 2.0, and I must say that the samples included are really really great.
They are totally useable, do not sound fake.

[Marty Long]

I must say we admire Dave's finger drumming too! Pretty cool stuff. Its great to hear that guys are diggin 2.0 because 3.0 is just on a whole nother planet.

I really love the new vintagey kits, the Steely Dan is quite amazing of course but there is another kit called Vintage Fatty Kit that has a lot character... ahh hell here is its mp3 demo:

www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/vintagefatty.mp3

and here is lucky thirteenth demo (remember there is 40 kits total so this thread hasn't even scratched the surface..)

The very popular Red Hot Chili Peppers modeled kit, the "Chili Kit" with that big ambient sound from Blood Sugar Sex Magic..

www.stevenslatedrums.com/scott/chilli.mp3

If all goes well, we'll start taking orders right after NAMM.. And all is going well!

Marty
Yellow Matter Entertainment

[SEA]

I ask pigcat if he owned both OWD and SSD on the "1st impressions Ocean Way Drums" thread and here's what he had to say.

------------------------------------------------------

I don't own SSD. Frankly I don't like the sound since they first released version 1.

They sound overcompressed (in my book, of course), and doesn't have the transient and oomph I want. It can be limited when trying to fit into a less compressed mix, in other words, I need to compress other tracks more in order to keep up with the SSD or it can cause headcahes to mastering engineer when trying to make everything else tight while the already-compressed drums are getting in the way.

I remember hearing a track posted by Bang in a topic discussing OTB mix versus ITB mix done by URS Strip Pro - when they're in the mix, the oomph when listening to the drums solo'ed, are gone.

Also I've heard some recent preview of the 3.0, it still has that kind of compressed character which is something I want to avoid.

In the end, I'm just judging from the SSD demos. So I couldn't speak of how it can turn up under different hands.

Just my personal opinions.

-----------------------------------------------

Has anyone had similar experience as pigcat with SSD? Especially the part where he says "it doesn't have the transient and oomph I want. It can be limited when trying to fit into a less compressed mix" which I personally don't understand since if you are using SSD to replace drums, wouldn't you add compression on the mix to suit?

And what about the statement "it can cause headcahes to mastering engineer when trying to make everything else tight while the already-compressed drums are getting in the way."

Any thoughts?

SEA

[Schmeckitup]

Originally Posted by Squids

It mostly has to do with development tools and "Scripting" as opposed to visible features for Kontakt users. But, that said, eventually Kontakt may have more features thanks to sound developers requests.

As I remember, Steve was talking strictly about audio quality. He wasn't hearing back what he put in, and had to work closely with NI to get the playback quality up to spec.

[Squids]

Originally Posted by Schmeckitup

As I remember, Steve was talking strictly about audio quality. He wasn't hearing back what he put in, and had to work closely with NI to get the playback quality up to spec.

A number of things were done to get the audio quality up to his standards (including redoing about 3 months of work because he wanted it to be done from the ORIGINAL drive and not a copy to another drive... for concern over digital generation loss... if that gives you an idea of how difficult it was to please Allen and Steve - I'd never come across THAT before!). Both Allen and Steve were VERY strict about the audio quality and had certain rules to follow that made it 3 times as hard and take 3 times as long to do in fact. But, that's why its Ocean Way Drums and not "Squids Drums" or something else. It's very much THEIR product sonically - EVERYTHING done to their spec and was redone if they had an issue with something. Our part was more of the mapping and Kontakt programming. I wasn't even at the sample sessions which is rare because I'm at about 90% of the sample sessions for products we sell. But this one is different.

Anyway, if you know Steve you know what a perfectionist he is. I've learned so much from him and Allen. But they are some of the most demanding audiophile nuts I've ever met. They both have "golden ears" and can hear things most of us can't. "Wait you hear that up in the 40K register?" "No?" Haha. Just kidding. But, not kidding that much. It was tough when they heard something none of us were hearing and we're talking subtle. However, I think he was referring to working with Sonic Reality about ways to improve the audio quality of the playback, not NI. But there was a lot of collaboration between the three entities to make this work.

On the scripting side, the developer has a lot of flexibility to change things specific to their needs. So we found a way to turn the polyphony of a mic channel OFF if it was turned all the way down. That feature was key for not wasting computer power or HD access overload. OWD Platinum can easily bring a computer to its knees being at 96K like that with 13 channels for the snare alone.

[VitaEtMusica]

Originally Posted by SEA

Has anyone had similar experience as pigcat with SSD? Especially the part where he says "it doesn't have the transient and oomph I want. It can be limited when trying to fit into a less compressed mix" which I personally don't understand since if you are using SSD to replace drums, wouldn't you add compression on the mix to suit?

And what about the statement "it can cause headcahes to mastering engineer when trying to make everything else tight while the already-compressed drums are getting in the way."

Any thoughts?
SEA

I don't know of any drum library on earth that has more transient than Steven Slate Drums. It's transient enough to take your head off. I use the envelopes within Kontakt to calm these down where not needed.

As far as oomph... there are so many choices, if you're not getting oomph you need to check yourself.

These are not jazz kits. But I continually have to tell people to stop using all "crack" hits. There are all the layers underneath that I love for softer stuff.

The only thing I've ever had mastering guys say about the drums is that they are some of the best drums they've ever heard. The SSD's actually aren't hyper compressed- they just end up that way in tunes that are smashed. I, for one, like to smash my stuff to a certain extent. That's just "the sound." Not every tune calls for that.

Do I use things other that SSD? Of course, but I usually reach for SSD first.

he wanted it to be done from the ORIGINAL drive and not a copy to another drive... for concern over digital generation loss... if that gives you an idea of how difficult it was to please Allen and Steve

I just don't think a rolling eyes smiley would cut it on this one. Hopefully the machine room was kept at 72 degrees at all times. Dave, you have a great product, no doubt, but it almost seems like you got worked. Like, we'll teach you to make sample libraries, sucker. Were you not allowed in the sessions, or you just didn't go?

[BigJunk]

I agree with Vita, the Slate drums are not even close to overcompressed, they sound perfect. The 3.0 snares have as much transient as you can ever desire from a drum sample. Even with 2.0 I would still compress some of the slate drums, some of them are very open sounding. I'm going to find the other thread you were referring to and see whats up with this guy.

I know Vita says the Slate doesn't have Jazz kits but I am about 48 hours into programming the most awesome jazz tune with the new Steely Dan kit. I tuned the toms a bit higher to get them jazzier but the kick and snare from the Steely dan kit are perfect for that kind of music as it. Thats a really big addition to 3.0 imo.

Junk

[SEA]

Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica

just don't think a rolling eyes smiley would cut it on this one. Hopefully the machine room was kept at 72 degrees at all times. Dave, you have a great product, no doubt, but it almost seems like you got worked. Like, we'll teach you to make sample libraries, sucker. Were you not allowed in the sessions, or you just didn't go?

FREAL!

[SEA]

Thanks VitaEtMusica & BigJunk for your replies.

Since I do not have either lib, and was looking forward to SSD 3. Pigcat had me a bit concerned there for a minute.

SEA

[VitaEtMusica]

Originally Posted by BigJunk

I know Vita says the Slate doesn't have Jazz kits but I am about 48 hours into programming the most awesome jazz tune with the new Steely Dan kit. I tuned the toms a bit higher to get them jazzier but the kick and snare from the Steely dan kit are perfect for that kind of music as it. Thats a really big addition to 3.0 imo.

Junk

Hey- no fair bringing the Steely Dan Kit into the fray. It's an amazing kit. I'm using it on everything lately.

[VitaEtMusica]

Originally Posted by SEA

Thanks VitaEtMusica & BigJunk for your replies.

Since I do not have either lib, and was looking forward to SSD 3. Pigcat had me a bit concerned there for a minute.

SEA

I don't see how you could go wrong with either package... except that you could buy a lot more stuff if you went the SSD route.

[SEA]

Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica

I don't see how you could go wrong with either package... except that you could buy a lot more stuff if you went the SSD route.

Are you saying if I buy SSD 3, I'll end up buying MORE stuff?

SEA

[VitaEtMusica]

Originally Posted by SEA

Are you saying if I buy SSD 3, I'll end up buying MORE stuff?

SEA

No, you COULD buy more stuff. Or pocket the difference in these economically challenging times.