Setup issue regarding Digi 192 and Apogee DA16x Setup issue:Digi192 and Apogee DA16x

Redsandblu · 6th June 2005, 11:25 AM

I've posted this thread on the Digidesign UC, I asked the people of Apogee at the last AES. I've also called Digidesign a few times on this, but so far, no anwers yet.

Here;s our PT setup:

2 Digi 192 (total of 16 analog in, 32 analog out)
2 apogee DA16x (total of 32 analog out)
1 apogee big ben
1 Digi Sync

First of all: PT sees the DA16s as Digi 192's with 8 analog outs and 8 digital outs. How can PT be setup so that at least it sees the apogee as a device with 16 analog outputs. Cause right now PT adds 39 samples to the so called 8 digital outs of every DA16.
We don't use any hardware inserts. Everything goes straight to the analog console. But we do use ADC for the occasional plugin.

Second is a clocking question: Big ben is the master clock - it outputs WC to all converters as well as to the Sync. The Sync itself receives SMPTE from the console (it has to be like that in order to use the console's transport controls to operate Pro Tools). But I've noticed on this forum that a bunch of users have the Sync as master clock and using the Big Ben only as a WC distributor.

All The Best,

Redsandblu

Redsandblu · 11th June 2005, 11:40 AM

Hmmm...must be the only with this problem then?

ilovesound · 11th June 2005, 04:36 PM

Hi ... I have a Digital 192 hooked up to a AD-16x and a DA-16x ... that works perfectly fine ... Apogee sells a special cable that splits the AES i/o to each unit.

On the standard 192 however, they come with 8i/o analog, and 8i/o digital. So, If you want to hook up a DA-16x to that and get 16AES out, you need to buy the digital expansion card for the 192. As I am sure you know, a 192 can only send 16 i/o at a time. You can make a combination of analog and digital per interface, but only a total of 16i/o. So by running 16out to the DA-16x, you won't be able to run any analog outs.

So, to run 2 DA-16x's, you would need 2 Digital 192's to get a total of 32 outs(AES).

As for clocking? I have no idea. I know that apogee has a PDF for hooking up the Big Ben in a Protools environment.

http://www.apogeedigital.com/pdf/con...protoolshd.pdf

I hope that helps a bit
Ian
p.s. I am assuming that you are hooking the DA-16x's throught the digital i/o of the Digi 192 ... if you are using the Apogee X-cards, then forget what I just said.

Redsandblu · 12th June 2005, 10:59 PM

er, it's not exactly setup like that: all our converters are used as DA only, no AD or DD. So the 192's each have one DA expansion card in order to have 16 analog outs per unit. Same for the Apogees: they both have a PT HD x-card, so they're directly interfacing with PT, without 192's between them.
Hope this clarifies it a little. But the question still remains the same

Redsandblu

phone_the_flo · 20th February 2010, 12:58 AM

I know its been a while since your post but I am looking down the barrel of a similar problem.

setup:

HD3 Core
2x 96 interface
2x DA-16x (with x-hd)
Mytek 8x96 (adat running to the first 96, also clock master)

this setup was just installed two days ago and seems to work fine except for the fact that the DA-16's spit out the signal a wee bit later then the 96's so that it comes to phasing when all 4 units are playing back the same signal (in this case we used a snare drum)

the units are connected as follows: core card to 1st 96 daisy to 2nd 96, process to 1st DA-16x daisy to 2nd DA-16x

to roughly see how much of a delay we are dealing with we recorded all four signals (each from its respective interface) back into the session. through the mytek and through the first 96.

both recordings revieled the same results.

1) all the recorded signals were later then the original signal
2) the 96's were 'less' late and the DA's 'more' late
3) the latency between the original and the 96 was about 70 samples
4) the latency between the 96 and the DA's was about 25 samples

these values were calculated by using samples in the display and selecting between waveform starting points. inacurate, i know.

now i am not sure if we tested the signals only through the analog outs of the 'fake' 192 or also the optical outs. which i will now want to do aswell to see if there is any difference. which leads me to my question of how you measured the 39 samples on the optical outs?

I have heard that DA-16x's should only be connected through a digi interface to avoid such delay problems, but even when trying this setup the DA's were later. I must mention that the above trail did take place using a 12 foot cable between the 96 and DA to save the hassle of physically moving the units which I have read is not supposed to be done or better said one is only supposed to use 1.5 feet cable to daisy chain the apogee interfaces. The truths of this practice is something i am also questioning.

I am sorry but I cant help on the issue of Clock since I dont work and haven't worked with the Digi SYNC.

If you have found any answers over the last 5 years since you made your post and are willing to share them I would be deeply thankfull and appreciative of any help you could give.

thanks.

flo.

6th June 2005, 11:25 AM	#1
Redsandblu Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 226	Setup issue regarding Digi 192 and Apogee DA16x Setup issue:Digi192 and Apogee DA16x I've posted this thread on the Digidesign UC, I asked the people of Apogee at the last AES. I've also called Digidesign a few times on this, but so far, no anwers yet. Here;s our PT setup: 2 Digi 192 (total of 16 analog in, 32 analog out) 2 apogee DA16x (total of 32 analog out) 1 apogee big ben 1 Digi Sync First of all: PT sees the DA16s as Digi 192's with 8 analog outs and 8 digital outs. How can PT be setup so that at least it sees the apogee as a device with 16 analog outputs. Cause right now PT adds 39 samples to the so called 8 digital outs of every DA16. We don't use any hardware inserts. Everything goes straight to the analog console. But we do use ADC for the occasional plugin. Second is a clocking question: Big ben is the master clock - it outputs WC to all converters as well as to the Sync. The Sync itself receives SMPTE from the console (it has to be like that in order to use the console's transport controls to operate Pro Tools). But I've noticed on this forum that a bunch of users have the Sync as master clock and using the Big Ben only as a WC distributor. All The Best, Redsandblu

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11th June 2005, 11:40 AM	#2
Redsandblu Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 226	Hmmm...must be the only with this problem then?

11th June 2005, 04:36 PM	#3
ilovesound Gear addict Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 360	Hi ... I have a Digital 192 hooked up to a AD-16x and a DA-16x ... that works perfectly fine ... Apogee sells a special cable that splits the AES i/o to each unit. On the standard 192 however, they come with 8i/o analog, and 8i/o digital. So, If you want to hook up a DA-16x to that and get 16AES out, you need to buy the digital expansion card for the 192. As I am sure you know, a 192 can only send 16 i/o at a time. You can make a combination of analog and digital per interface, but only a total of 16i/o. So by running 16out to the DA-16x, you won't be able to run any analog outs. So, to run 2 DA-16x's, you would need 2 Digital 192's to get a total of 32 outs(AES). As for clocking? I have no idea. I know that apogee has a PDF for hooking up the Big Ben in a Protools environment. http://www.apogeedigital.com/pdf/con...protoolshd.pdf I hope that helps a bit Ian p.s. I am assuming that you are hooking the DA-16x's throught the digital i/o of the Digi 192 ... if you are using the Apogee X-cards, then forget what I just said.

12th June 2005, 10:59 PM	#4
Redsandblu Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 226	er, it's not exactly setup like that: all our converters are used as DA only, no AD or DD. So the 192's each have one DA expansion card in order to have 16 analog outs per unit. Same for the Apogees: they both have a PT HD x-card, so they're directly interfacing with PT, without 192's between them. Hope this clarifies it a little. But the question still remains the same Redsandblu

20th February 2010, 12:58 AM	#5
phone_the_flo Gear interested Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1	I know its been a while since your post but I am looking down the barrel of a similar problem. setup: HD3 Core 2x 96 interface 2x DA-16x (with x-hd) Mytek 8x96 (adat running to the first 96, also clock master) this setup was just installed two days ago and seems to work fine except for the fact that the DA-16's spit out the signal a wee bit later then the 96's so that it comes to phasing when all 4 units are playing back the same signal (in this case we used a snare drum) the units are connected as follows: core card to 1st 96 daisy to 2nd 96, process to 1st DA-16x daisy to 2nd DA-16x to roughly see how much of a delay we are dealing with we recorded all four signals (each from its respective interface) back into the session. through the mytek and through the first 96. both recordings revieled the same results. 1) all the recorded signals were later then the original signal 2) the 96's were 'less' late and the DA's 'more' late 3) the latency between the original and the 96 was about 70 samples 4) the latency between the 96 and the DA's was about 25 samples these values were calculated by using samples in the display and selecting between waveform starting points. inacurate, i know. now i am not sure if we tested the signals only through the analog outs of the 'fake' 192 or also the optical outs. which i will now want to do aswell to see if there is any difference. which leads me to my question of how you measured the 39 samples on the optical outs? I have heard that DA-16x's should only be connected through a digi interface to avoid such delay problems, but even when trying this setup the DA's were later. I must mention that the above trail did take place using a 12 foot cable between the 96 and DA to save the hassle of physically moving the units which I have read is not supposed to be done or better said one is only supposed to use 1.5 feet cable to daisy chain the apogee interfaces. The truths of this practice is something i am also questioning. I am sorry but I cant help on the issue of Clock since I dont work and haven't worked with the Digi SYNC. If you have found any answers over the last 5 years since you made your post and are willing to share them I would be deeply thankfull and appreciative of any help you could give. thanks. flo.