BFD Drums

[Revelation]

Just got the software, and it is a big step up over my LM4 II drums. I am just starting to get the hang of it, but I can tell you, I can't the difference between real drums and the BFD. They seem to have enough plugs on it to make it sound like a real drummer. I will let you know once I do a song with it.

[mrbowes]

i ordered a copy yesterday and can't wait to use it!

[entropy]

BFD rocks, especially the 8 bit kit expansion.

Has anyone heard any news about the planned release of BFD Drumagog?

[mersisblue]

I've used it in Nuendo

would like to try it in logic though . great plugin

I didnt know it was expandable

[entropy]

yep, currently there are 2 expansion packs. XFL and 8 bit kit. XFL is more of the same plus percussion, variations on the drums like brushes and mallets. 8 bit kit is old skool drum machines, 808,909, Linn etc and the some of the kits done with spy mics, chains hanging on skins, mic'ed up thru PA's.... kind of industrial type sounds. You need to have BFD first and then you can add od from there.

[mac black]

BFD

[Methlab]

I love BFD..it is like mixing a real drumer. If you want to go crazy, let the jamstix brain control it and do even more. I need to check out this 8 bit add on.

[theblue1]

Aw geez. Now we're all going to sound the same.

I just set mine up last night. I ordered a GB of RAM for my laptop earlier in the day but I won't get it 'til next week. I must say, a 1/2 GB of RAM ain't what it used to be. I'll have 1.25 when I'm done (and can kick it up to 2 GB when RAM gets even cheaper). Happily, it seems to run pretty well on my outboard USB2 drive (it is a 7200, but it only has a 2MB onboard cache).

The sounds are pretty great, and the ability to combine the different mic placements is pretty cool. The dynamic articulation is the best I've used.

I guess I'll probably pop for the expansion pack eventually (the acoustic drum oriented one -- I've got a lifetime of retro d.m. samples I can use in other apps, including DR008.) But right now, I figure it's bad enough having to finally bump my RAM up. But my laptop is about a year and a half old and I figured I'd probably be going up to at least 1.25 GB around now, so, here I am, right where I expected.)

[Methlab]

i went to 2 gigs..i'm loving it. dedicated an SATA drive just to samples, and BFD flies.

[theblue1]

I'm a simple man. With simple needs.


Oh, yeah... and a cheapskate. This way I can pop later to max up when it's cheap -- and give the computer a nice little greasing in its 'golden years.'

[Methlab]

Im a lazy man who hates to freeze. (did that rhyme w/ yours?)


but really, I went for 2 gigs because I use a lot of VStis and I love being able to just have it all going strong w/ no freezing required. And my mobo allows for 4 gig, so i figured why not go dual channel and really have some power.

does anyone know if Xp reads 4 gigs of RAM? I have read it only recognizes 3 gigs, but I am not sure. I'd love to have 4 gigs in a few months.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Methlab

Im a lazy man who hates to freeze. (did that rhyme w/ yours?)


but really, I went for 2 gigs because I use a lot of VStis and I love being able to just have it all going strong w/ no freezing required. And my mobo allows for 4 gig, so i figured why not go dual channel and really have some power.

does anyone know if Xp reads 4 gigs of RAM? I have read it only recognizes 3 gigs, but I am not sure. I'd love to have 4 gigs in a few months.

Oh, sure, you can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much RAM.

But I'm still a cheapskate. I'll max up to 2 (on my laptop) when that extra gig falls to around $75 or so.

This seems to answer your question but I'd double check before I shelled out...

>how much maximun memory can i install in Windows XP?

Windows XP (both Home and Pro) is designed to use up to 4 gb of RAM.

However there is a configuration setting that will need to be made if
you go beyond 3 gb.

Good luck


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-607912.php

_____________________________________________ ___

BTW, I was fooling around some more with BFD last night, and with just it loaded into Sonar 4 with nothing else, my pagefile usage was a little under 480 MB (depending on the drum kit loaded). So, very tight on a 512 MB machine. But the pleasant surprise was that Sonar's CPU meter was bouncing mostly between 8 and 14% (though the Taskmanager CPU meter was considerbly higher. But Sonar's meter is what I usually go by. I know it it's in the 70%+ range I better start taking some measures to not let the project grow any more or freeze tracks. Anyhow, it looks like BFD on my machine puts a bigger hit on RAM than CPU, as I was hoping (and as the fxpansion lit seemed to hint at.) So I can still throw a convolution reverb on it.

[toolskid]

Originally Posted by Labs

Heard GS's famous mr toolskid play both BFD and DFH recently...BFD won in a big way... - tools lost overall on both though.


Gustav

ƒøkke®


there go your tickets.........


but back OT, I was a MAJOR BFD sceptic, until I got a chance to try it out on a decent system. Really really impressive, and theres some SERIOUSLY AWESOME expansion packs coming soon - INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

both the current packs are really really useful too. Its now a staple addition to my programming arsenal

[max cooper]

As for all of us sounding the same, even with the same BFD drumkit there are so many options, especially when you add the fact that you're probably gonna EQ some stuff and squish some stuff. I don't think it's a big issue.

Gotta have the expansion packs, imo.

[Methlab]

yeah and plus you can pick your mics distance, and tweak bleed in the BFD GUI....honestly, it took me a while to get the snare sound I wanted, and I am still working for it. It's not that BFD doesn't have great snares, it's just that there are so many options that it takes a while to get it perfect. I'm still not 100% on getting my snares to crack...they are very thick..which is a great thing, but I am still hunting for some more crack in them.


Ok, so i was right about that 3 gig thing..but there is a fix..very nice find!

[captain54]

Originally Posted by toolskid

I was a MAJOR BFD sceptic

Now THAT is the understatement of the year...

"I suppose my main grumble is that each part of the kit sounds totally separate from the other, theres no interplay going on. There also seems to be an alarming regularity in the recurrance of the same sample. Dynamically it also lacks conviction, I'm not feeling the changes in intensity are consistent with actual live performed drums. Theres a strange separation in the decays of each drum too, its really weird. I dont feel like theres any sense of depth to the kit, it seems really 2d.

Nitpicking it may be,and maybe there are more factors I havent gone into, but all together this makes my skin crawl, it feels so limited and really detracts from what would have been a nice performance.

I would really be interested to hear the same track with you recording your gretsch with whatever you have."
__________________
Emre Ramazanoglu
http://www.emremusic.com

I don't mean to bust your balls, but I couldn't resist

I haven't heard BFD lately, but I picked up DFHS Custom and Vintage and I'm blown away....improved hi hat response

[toolskid]

hmmm - I think I was referring to DFHS?...no...was I?????

and my feelings on that product stand....

I've only really been convinced by BFD, its a very very different product, and with any of these drum sample engines its all down to the level of programming you get into as to the quality of the percieved realism. That and the treatment of the raw tracks in the mix of course!!

[Revelation]

I also have not figure out how to do drum rolls.
Where is a simple kick on 1, 3, and, snare 2 & 4, and high hat on 16th notes? Then if I want to change the snare to a rim shot, is there an easy way to do this? I guess I could create it without using the grooves, but just manually use each separate part of the drum kit. I assume I would save the groove somehow. But if I want variation on that groove, how would I do that? Would I have to create my own grooves for each of these?

Also I got an update at the BFD web site. I assume I just needed to get the latest and not bother with the previous ones as the newest should include previous updates.

[7161]

the only downside to BFD is when you use it to remix an old track done with a different drum-soft - usualy requires tons of re-working to make it sound ok cos the BFD is so much more sensitive to velocity etc... you cant just sling BFD on and hit play. It's the Don s/w for real drums tho

[Methlab]

yea, I still compress the tracks, and then compress the drum submix a bit too. I also finally just said **** the bottom snare mic and just use the top and got more crack that way.

I EQ a lot still, there is no way you can just throw these drums on as is and go. I think a lot of newer guys think that way, and then go on to KVR and ask why the drums sound like ass. It will always take ears to mix sounds.

One HUGE option of BFD that I love is how you can control the bleed. So you really don't need to use any gates to get a hihat out of a snare mic. You can just enable the direct bleed option and trim the bleed how you want it.

also, the newer updates have "anti machine gun mode" as an option. That will help with the popcorn fills.

[theblue1]

Yeah, I'm still finding my way through BFD.

It's not like getting a new set of soundfonts and just plugging them in, that's for sure!

As pointed out, the big range of dynamic articulations can make MIDI sequences programmed for other drum modules pretty unpredictable. (Some of my tracks I want to rework, I'll probably have to use MIDI velocity compression to get where I want.)

As a former studio engineer who spent a lot of time developing drum mic'ing skills, I appreciate the range of possibilities inherent in the BFD system. It's not the same as mic'ing a real drummer, of course, with all the good and bad that goes along with it, but it's a lot more flexible -- in some ways -- than any other drum system I've used.

On EQ, compression, etc, yeah, this is where you start getting precisely the sound you're looking for. The BFD sample sets seem to be pretty much a by the book, fairly neutral mic'ing set up. So, without EQ, you're going to get the full range of things like cymbals, snares, and toms -- and kicks, for that matter -- and that may not be what you're looking for.

In the 3DW, a lot of engineers almost automatically roll out the bottom of the overheads, snares, and, often enough, toms, trying to cut bleed from the kick as well as getting more 'definition' in those sounds. And that's what a lot of us are used to.

When I was first learning how to mic drums I used to listen to the kit acoustically -- especially the kick -- and think to myself, geez, how do I make this sound like the drums on records? Because, all too often, the drums on records don't sound anything like a real drum kit in the real world.


With regard to that snare crack, Methlab, try some compression on the snare -- but make sure you leave enough attack (ie, dial the attack time back so that there's little or no compression on the first 25-35 ms of the snare... that wiill increase the perceived crack of the snare. You can then adjust the sustain level and time according to how you like your snare to trail out. It's paradoxical, but if you want to add edge, sometimes the first place to go is your compressor, since you can set it up to let the leading edge of the sound through with little compression and then squeeze down the rest of the sound (as well as potentially increasing or decreasing the perceived 'sustain' of the snare sound.)

[Methlab]

thats a good call..i pulled the attack back a lot and it helped. I also tuned the snare tighter and switched to the black beauty (old standard). I also increased the dynamics to around +30 and it sounds a lot better. Of course my ears are dead, so we will see tomorrow.

[Big Bad Bill]

Originally Posted by Labs

Heard GS's famous mr toolskid play both BFD and DFH recently...BFD won in a big way... - tools lost overall on both though.


Gustav

I have to disagree on this one. I'm a producer working mainly with modern rock/pop stuff, and program drum tracks each day. I own both BFD and DFH Superior, and I end up using Superior for 95% of all my drum work. The mixer matrix is even more advanced in DFHS, but most importanly, it just sounds better.

I find that it is easier to make a drum track sound realistic with DFHS, and my engineer agrees with me.

BFD is a fine tool, but personallly I think DFH Superior smokes it, especially with the new Custom&Vintage upgrade they just released.

But of course, YMMV.

BBB

[junior]

i'm a bit surprised - do any of you guys actually play drums? bfd is cool, but if you're looking for realism, dfhs smokes it. especially the cymbals, bleed options and edrum support... and yes, i've used them both.

[toolskid]

I've knocked about on a kit once or twice I suppose....

[DAWgEAR]

Originally Posted by Big Bad Bill

I have to disagree on this one. I'm a producer working mainly with modern rock/pop stuff, and program drum tracks each day. I own both BFD and DFH Superior, and I end up using Superior for 95% of all my drum work. The mixer matrix is even more advanced in DFHS, but most importanly, it just sounds better.

I find that it is easier to make a drum track sound realistic with DFHS, and my engineer agrees with me.

BFD is a fine tool, but personallly I think DFH Superior smokes it, especially with the new Custom&Vintage upgrade they just released.

But of course, YMMV.

BBB

Wow, I have to disagree with your disagreement.

I own both BFD (+XFL) and DFHS (original, not C&V) and, IMHO, there is no comparison: the quality of the recorded samples in BFD is far better. DFHS sounds flat and two-dimensional in comparison. Of course everyone's mileage varies ...

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Methlab

thats a good call..i pulled the attack back a lot and it helped. I also tuned the snare tighter and switched to the black beauty (old standard). I also increased the dynamics to around +30 and it sounds a lot better. Of course my ears are dead, so we will see tomorrow.

Try sticking your head inside a kick drum while it's being played, trying to figure out how its sound works, where the sweet spot was. (Everybody's gotta try it at least once, I guess, but I cringe now to think about it. Boom. Boom. Boom. My head going boom, boom, boom... to paraphrase Mr Gabriel.)


Anyhow, the great thing about the way a lot of us work now is that we don't have to have things loud. At least as long as you're in a relatively quiet environment. I used to find that in the summer when my A/C was on my habitual monitoring level went up maybe 8 or 9 dB. (I made sure I had a good breeze when I moved. Of course, that means you hear the outside world like it's inside...)

BTW, a good technique to avoid ear fatigue is to mark off a couple of set volume points on your monitor level control. You can use a grease pencil or other nonpermanent marker. I like to have one that's really low -- but high enough where, if your ears are okay, you can hear everything that's going on. And another at what I consider "full" -- and then try to not inch up over that. Having a sort of standardized 'reference' level can be helpful when you mix, too.

[chrisso]

Just been reading the user wishlist for future BFD products.
I must say, most of the requests are already available in the DFH format (especially Custom & Vintage).
Having said that, I think the consumer is spoilt for choice with DFHS, BFD and Scarbee. The only hassle is the ever greater processor power required to get the best out of these products.

[natpub]

We did side-by-sides in typical applications with BFD and DFHS and preferred DFHS. It seemed very obvious to us, but again, this was for realism versus a hyped sound with some may prefer.

[RoundBadge]

Anybody using BFD @96k?.I got it when it 1st came out and even spent some time with it's creator Steve in LA learning about it..he even gave me the then unreleased expansion pack as well
But I just couldn't get it to work smoothly at 96K so I haven't used on a session for over 9 months ,just way to much trouble...too bad it looked like a cool tool.
but at 96: no go