Nuendo 3/Cubase, multiple firewire interfaces. How should I connect them?

[dbirchmier]

Hey everyone!

I decided to post at this forum as you guys seem very knowledgeable, so first off, thank you for taking the time to help so many!

My question may be very simple, but I'm not sure the correct route to take.

First, here is my setup:
Nuendo 3.2
Windows XP Pro SP3
4gb RAM
2 x 10,000RPM Velociraptor's in RAID0
AMD 9950 Black CPU
--
INTERFACES:
Tascam FW1884 (has firewire 400 connection, and 1 ADAT in /1 ADAT out | Coax Word Clock In/Out)

RME Fireface 800 (has firewire 400 & 800. 2 ADAT in / 2 ADAT out | Word IN / Word OUT)

Mackie Onyx 400f (Has Firewire 400 connection. Word IN, Word OUT. NO ADAT)

--------

My question is, how do I use all 3 of these interfaces at one time? The Tascam FW 1884 has a controller, so I'd prefer to use it as the "primary" unit, as far as sound going out. (Connect the monitors to it)

I've gotten the units to work individually, by chaining them together with Firewire. The problem is that Nuendo doesn't seem to allow me to select more than one Firewire interface at a time. (Under Devices, Device Setup, VST Audiobay)

Ideally, it would make sense that I could connect all 3 interfaces via Firewire, then "enable" all 3 interfaces in Nuendo. I'd then set my ins and outs. The In's would be spread across the 3 boards. The outs would ALL go to the Tascam controller.

Is this possible? If you need more information just let me know.

I sincerely appreciate your help on this matter!

-david birchmier

[slaves666]

If you use the Tascam as the master, hook up the ADATS from the Fireface to it for another 8 inputs and outputs.

Since the Mackie has no ADATS, you could use the 4 mic pre's into the Fireface.

That's about the best you can do.

[dbirchmier]

Originally Posted by slaves666

If you use the Tascam as the master, hook up the ADATS from the Fireface to it for another 8 inputs and outputs.

Since the Mackie has no ADATS, you could use the 4 mic pre's into the Fireface.

That's about the best you can do.

Hey there,

Thanks for responding so quickly!

The RME only has 4 XLR's. If I hook it up to the Tascam, do I connect the Mackie through the Line inputs? How exactly do I do that?

The tascam has 8 inputs
RME - 4 inputs
Mackie - 4 inputs
(Counting XLR's)

I'd like to be able to use all 16 at once. Will what you have suggested allow me to do this?

[dbirchmier]

I just realized the Tascam FW 1884 ALSO has a SPDIF connection, as so does the Mackie.

Can I use the optical ADAT for the RME, and the SPDIF for the Mackie?

I've connected the Mackie via SPDIF and the "D IN" light on the Tascam comes on. But when I go to add more inputs -- it only has "S/PDIF L" and "S/PDIF R"

Thanks for the help!

[dbirchmier]

Essentially, this could all be solved if the Mackie had an ADAT interface, right?

It appears that the Tascam can handle up to 8 inputs via ADAT. (I don't understand ADAT at all, so I don't know how this works)

Hypothetically, would it be possible to run the Mackie ADAT (if it had one!) out to the RME, then the RME ADAT out to the tascam, and then the Tascam INTO the computer via Firewire.

If i'm nuts, you can tell me, lol

[slaves666]

If you read my first post, it explains what can be done with your gear. You have to have 1 master device, and the others work "through" it, not "along with" it.

My personal advice is sell the Tascam and Mackie......Keep the RME, it has the best AD/DA.

If you need more ins and outs, get something like an RME ADI-8 or Mackie 800r.

Adat carries 8 channels or audio through 1 cable, 1 way.

Are you planning on recording drums? What do you need so many inputs?

[neilwilkes]

I'd personally keep well away from FW with that many I/O required.
For up to 24 I/O at 48KHz, grab yourself an RME HDSP9652 and some ADI-8 converters.
I'm running 2 ADI-8 DS and a single ADI-8 for 24 in/out via ADAT at 44.1/48, or 12 in/out at 88.2/96KHz. Plenty for me, it uses a single interface & is rock solid stable.
The audio quality on the RME is awesome too - blows most else out of the water at the price.

Problems you might face with the setup you describe include:
1 - One card will be in charge, the rest will be running through it as you can only have one type of ASIO at a time. So control will be hard work. RME will let you use up to 4 cards in a single system - not that you need it, as massive track counts can be handled with a combination of an HDSPe RayDat
RME: HDSPe RayDAT
and an ADI-8 QS
RME: ADI-8 QS
2 - You won't be able to run that many channels down a FireWire interface reliably.
3 - You won't be able to use the FireWire buss for anything else at all - no DSP, no HDD, unless you get an add-on card - that may or may not play nice with any on-board stuff.

Call me old-fashioned, but I just do not really trust FW audio interfaces from my (admittedly very limited) experience with them.

[dbirchmier]

Originally Posted by slaves666

If you read my first post, it explains what can be done with your gear. You have to have 1 master device, and the others work "through" it, not "along with" it.

My personal advice is sell the Tascam and Mackie......Keep the RME, it has the best AD/DA.

If you need more ins and outs, get something like an RME ADI-8 or Mackie 800r.

Adat carries 8 channels or audio through 1 cable, 1 way.

Are you planning on recording drums? What do you need so many inputs?

Yes. I have currently been recording drums with my Tascam, and at times, 8 inputs just falls a tad short. You can hear some of my recordings @ Censored - Official EPK

It's not really an option to sell any of the interfaces at this. I think I'll start by trying to connect the RME via ADAT, and run the Mackie Onyx from the line out into the line in's on the Tascam board. This would give me the best mix of good pre-amps, right?

Originally Posted by neilwilkes

I'd personally keep well away from FW with that many I/O required.
For up to 24 I/O at 48KHz, grab yourself an RME HDSP9652 and some ADI-8 converters.
I'm running 2 ADI-8 DS and a single ADI-8 for 24 in/out via ADAT at 44.1/48, or 12 in/out at 88.2/96KHz. Plenty for me, it uses a single interface & is rock solid stable.
The audio quality on the RME is awesome too - blows most else out of the water at the price.

Problems you might face with the setup you describe include:
1 - One card will be in charge, the rest will be running through it as you can only have one type of ASIO at a time. So control will be hard work. RME will let you use up to 4 cards in a single system - not that you need it, as massive track counts can be handled with a combination of an HDSPe RayDat
RME: HDSPe RayDAT
and an ADI-8 QS
RME: ADI-8 QS
2 - You won't be able to run that many channels down a FireWire interface reliably.
3 - You won't be able to use the FireWire buss for anything else at all - no DSP, no HDD, unless you get an add-on card - that may or may not play nice with any on-board stuff.

Call me old-fashioned, but I just do not really trust FW audio interfaces from my (admittedly very limited) experience with them.

Thank you so much for all of the information! I've not had bad luck with my firewire setups. (besides the Tascam is crap
One thing I would suggest to all Firewire interface users is to purchase a high end PCI Firewire card. This made a world of difference as far as reliablity goes -- for me at least.

I'll look into the RME's you suggested -- but at this point I'm not sure upgrading to them is an option :(

Thanks so much for all the help. Let me know if you have any other ideas!

[dbirchmier]

Through all this, I've come up with this idea to run everything.

What do you think?
TASCAM + Firewire > PC
RME + ADAT > TASCAM
Mackie + Line Outs > Tascam Line Inputs


I'll wind up with 12 inputs, and 8 of them will be pretty good. (4 RME, 4 Mackie) and the last 4 will be the Tascam's. Which will not be so grand

I do have a 2 channel tube preamp though. So I'll run that into the Tascam as well. thus cutting down my cheap, crappy preamps, to only 2!

How does this sound? Is this the best use of equipment in your mind?

[FeatheredSerpent]

If you're not using an external clock, then you want the 'host' unit to be the one with the best clock, and I'm guessing that's the Fireface.
It makes more sense to have the Fireface as the hub, I would do this:

Fireface to PC via firewire
2 channels 400f out via s/pdif to Fireface s/pdif in.
2 " " " via line to " line ins.
Tascam to fireface via adat.

This is dependent on whether or not you can route the tascam's ins to its adat outs without having a firewire connection though.
Even better if you can have it act as a converter AND still use the control surface via midi. I think expecting it to act as a stand-alone midi interface on top of all that might be asking a bit much but you never know..!

[dbirchmier]

Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent

If you're not using an external clock, then you want the 'host' unit to be the one with the best clock, and I'm guessing that's the Fireface.
It makes more sense to have the Fireface as the hub, I would do this:

Fireface to PC via firewire
2 channels 400f out via s/pdif to Fireface s/pdif in.
2 " " " via line to " line ins.
Tascam to fireface via adat.

This is dependent on whether or not you can route the tascam's ins to its adat outs without having a firewire connection though.
Even better if you can have it act as a converter AND still use the control surface via midi. I think expecting it to act as a stand-alone midi interface on top of all that might be asking a bit much but you never know..!

This makes good sense! I can gain an additional 2 channels by using S/PDIF! Do I just pan channel 1 all the way left, and channel 2 all the way right? Not sure how S/PDIF works...but it appears it's just Left and Right?

[FeatheredSerpent]

Yes it's stereo, you pan hard left and right on those s/pdif channels in the Fireface's input mixer.

Hmm, hang on. Ok, in order to be able to set the 400f ins to specific outs, you will have to install the 400f as a firewire audio device first, then configure the routing. Maybe it's factory setting is configured the way you want but I doubt it..
Route preamp 1 and 2 to analogue out 1 and 2.
Route preamp 3 and 4 to s/pdif out - (Pan these hard left and right too).

Then when you have powered it off and uninstalled the drivers, when you power it on without a firewire connection it will retain the routing settings so you can use it stand alone.

You may have to do the same process with the Tascam in order to route the analogue ins straight to the adat outs, before you can use it stand alone but your manual will help you better than me there.
If it does, and you can use the midi control surface of the Tascam as well, then that's not too bad a solution.

Might have been easier to have got a device that could be daisy chained via firewire maybe..