ableton live, anyone use it?

Originally Posted by mathieujohnson

Hi,
I was wondering how many of us here are using ableton live as their primary or first app to record and mix. Like who actually only uses live for all of his studio work?
and how about using it with pro tools or another daw?
I am using it as my only app. but i have reason installed too, wich i don't use right now and i used to be working with sonar 4.
basicly what apps to you use?

I use Live on a dedicated PC computer for reclocking loops and sound design.
I have another PC computer dedicated to Acid.
They are auxed into Logic/DAE mixer, which is my main DAW.
I drop into Protools if I want to use beat detective, aside from that I never use Protools unless I am tracking an entire band.
I am really getting into 'the amazing slowdowner' lately.
Stylus RMX- does that count- it is really a plugin, but it kicks ass.
Reaktor, Peak, Toast, Wave Burner, Audio Hijack.
The Country Song Generator is wicked for crazy country lyrics ie.
'I met her incognito stoned on oatmeal..'
Reason, Recycle, Rax- there are loads of Apps.

Or did you mean Sequencing Applications?

JR

[007]

Live has been my main writing tool for nearly 2 years.
I think it all depends on the type of music you're recording. For me, it's mostly about samples, weird noises, gliltches, pads, soundscapes and vinyl thievery. I record the occasional guitar, bass or MS2000 to fill in some gaps. Cinematic electronica.

While I love ProTools, trying to achieve in it what I can accomplish in Live is near impossible, at least not as quickly. I now think of ProTools as just a big tape recorder and a great tool for final mixes, but for composing, it takes the wind right out of my sails. Live is quick, you can have the basis of a new track within minutes, and it's not all about loops (another misconception, just like the infamous "I have no need for Reason, as I don't do techno - laughs...), you can record live instruments, use midi, VST instruments, outstanding fx, etc....

That said, 2 things I hope Ableton address in future upgrades:

- the sound engine. Mix buss sounds a bit dull and stuffy, so I often render each track and do my final mix in PT.

- better cpu usage in OSX, it can be quite sluggish once your tracks and effects add up.

[mathieujohnson]

yeah ok, well that is what i was wondering, like does anyone use only live to record, like lets say a whole band, i'd like to buy a daw app for my pc. I was using sonar 4 producer edition did a project with it, and like it a lot, but I found about live and i just can't believe what i can do with it.

Is it pro enough to make recordings of rock bands and all, or is mixing with it a headake?

richmondj you seem to be using it but you're transfering all your stuff to another computer, why? is live limiting what you can do?

[henryrobinett]

I have yet to fully come up to speed with Live. It seems too devicey and gimmicky to me for ME to use as a "composition" tool. I still write with pencil and manuscript paper. I'd rather not have a computer program "interact" with me for me to generate ideas from. But like was said it all depends on what type of music you're doing and what your goals are.

I've been trying off and on to get Live to serve as adjunct to the band. But I need more ime and hands on.

[drosophila]

I just started exploring this option myself, after finding Sonar tedious and Samplitude a little too expensive for the time being.. My advice? Download the free demo, work through some of the tutorials, and see how you like it.

In short, you're presented with a series of horizontal rows called scenes. Contained within each scene is a section of a song, like the intro, and this consists of various audio/midi clips that you create. If you're feeling improvisational, or want to have variations on a particular clip, you can rearrange the whole thing in real-time, while audio is playing. Drop in a slew of FX, looping tools, sample manipulation, and there ya go.

Depending on your perspective, it may be the right tool for the job. People accustomed to programs like Octamed, ImpulseTracker, Fruityloops, or Acid will probably find it to be pretty familiar territory. You definitely *can* do everything in Ableton, but it's really going to be up to how you like to work. It lacks some of the more esoteric features that programs like Cubase or Samplitude or PT have, but it has it's own strengths, particularly in terms of how flexible you can be with arrangements. In a lot of ways, it can even act a bit like a sampler, which could be really cool.

That said, I probably won't use it as my only app, but as a sampler-on-crack or playing live. As always YMMV - it may not be my first choice, but a friend of mine is using it for sequencing, recording, and sampling and absolutely loves it. Check it out.

[mathieujohnson]

I actually got a copy of it, but I was really wondering if it stacks up to sonar, sound wise and all, because it really is faster and simpler to mix with live and much more fun i must say. The only problem i see right now is that it looks less professional than sonar, so when i have a band coming in to record, well it won't really change a thing if it sounds as good, but it might look a little odd.
anyway, as far as tracking with live, its great, really enjoy it.
haven't had the chance to mix so much, but i really dig the automation "drawing" tool, really goes fast when you don't need TOO much precision.
anyway, it seems to do all that sonar was doing when i used it, maby i'm missing something, and this is what i'd like to know.
the fact that others would use it as their only app would show me that it clearly works and there is no major feature lacking.
anyway thanks for all the input!

[007]

I forgot to mention that I solely use the Arranger window when working, whereas most people use the Session view, with the vertical slots and columns. That's a great layout for preparing a live set (as in to play out live) or just jamming with a few loops as a sketchpad.

The Arranger window is a linear one, much like most sequencers-du-jour. Much more composer friendly, especially when tracking live instruments. What I love best about Live is the integrated browser allowing you to preview all your samples and simply dragging them in. Overall, not much of a learning curve to the program, mostly knowing how to 'warp' your clips, and more importantly knowing when not to (pads, textures, etc..), there are different warping modes which can take a bit of getting used to in order to avoid artifacts from time stretching. Other than that, it's a pretty simple program.

As for the look of it, yeah, it threw me off at first, but now that I know more about the people who created it and the idea behind it, I get it. It''s not meant to be all 3-D with bubbly icons and shadows, it's purposely designed this way, clean, simple and elegant (different skins can be applied, some are quite nice).

Lots of QT videos, tutorials, tips & tricks to view on their site, they cover all the basics of what the program can do. Finally, yes, it may not be for everybody, but as with anything else, once you're used to it, it's hard to achieve that level of efficiency in other programs. Even editing is quite a breeze once you know the key commands (many of which are the same as PT).

www.ableton.com

[junior]

i've been using live a lot less since i upgraded to cubase sx3. the mpex timestretching sounds much better than live's...

Originally Posted by mathieujohnson

yeah ok, well that is what i was wondering, like does anyone use only live to record, like lets say a whole band, i'd like to buy a daw app for my pc. I was using sonar 4 producer edition did a project with it, and like it a lot, but I found about live and i just can't believe what i can do with it.
Is it pro enough to make recordings of rock bands and all, or is mixing with it a headake?
richmondj you seem to be using it but you're transfering all your stuff to another computer, why? is live limiting what you can do?

I dont use Live for much- I couldnt conceive using Live as a main DAW- I've been using Logic since Crator days and I know it pretty well.
Nothing wrong with Live as such, but using TDM hardware with Logic software is just the best- it has a lot more flexibility for me.

JR

[toastchee]

I like live a lot, but IIRC, it does not have PDC, which is one reason I am sticking to Tracktion.

Can anyone give me some links/info about which lower end DAW software supports PDC?

For example, I love Fruity, but I think it's terrible in this regard. Try putting a compressor over an audio track, it sounds more like a phaser!

[six_wax]

Live is a really frickin' cool app, I use it all the time. Great as a scratchpad.

Unfortunately, it doesn't sound very good to me.

[ct43]

lack of PDC really pisses me off! Apart from that, I love it... I jam a load of ideas down in the session view, then when ive got all my parts together I start on the arrange view.. I just cant do this in cubase...

I still use SX to mix about 50% of my tracks, but Ableton has made making music fun again for me personally...

BTW I agree that MPEX sounds way better than the Ableton algo... another thing they need to improve I think.

[spacewars]

Nothing wrong with Live as such, but using TDM hardware with Logic software is just the best- it has a lot more flexibility for me.

JR[/QUOTE]


...unless of course, you have PT HD, in which case it doesn't work.
AT ALL.

Apple/Emagic know about this but after a friend of mine over there
who's in charge of Logic explained exactly why this is, I was actually relieved
that I don't currently have the $15,000 it would take to directly replace my existing
PT Mix4 rig with a G5/HD. Looooong way to go for Apple/Digi to get that shit working.

[toolskid]

I use LIVE all the time BUT always rewired to PT, the workflow in Live is pitifully slow compared to tools, but is an awesome tool that does some things tools doesnt in the timestretch world. Its draggin zoom navigation is a little awkward at first, but very soon you really appreciate its elegance. Sonically, I always buss out to tools through re-wire, as I felt this sounded superior to using LIVE standalone. All in all its a killer tool that I would really miss if had to stop using it.

Would I use it as a standalone product in my normal session and composition work... almost certainly not, but if I wanted a totally different starting point for a quirky project and the client (or myself) was willing to spend the time, why the hell not!!!

[saintjasin]

I'm a hip hop artist and I fell in love with live originally in it's capacity as a sample workstation vs. say an ASR or MPC. This is where it shines, it's very intuitive...I'm starting to incorporate vocals, synth plug ins etc.. and in recording and arranging you have a variety of approaches to take to quickly get stuff down. the sound of Pro Tools or other DAW's has sounded more professional to me in the past, but I'm trying out some waves plug in's and with the help of this site learning more about mixing and the shortcomings seem to be my fault, as they disappear the more I learn. I still would like to track to pro tools, but with an intel mac, I'll have to wait. But like alot of you said, live is different, it's in a class of its own. If you want to do your sketching in your DAW, I would go with it...
...the artifacts from some of the time stretching modes do irk me sometimes, can anybody reccomend a good VST for that?

[AdamJay]

wow, thats a pretty big 14 month bump!!!

just this last saturday night, i recorded a 6 piece rock band's 4 hour gig with Live 5.
multi-tracked through a pair of Metric Halo 2882's and 4 Phoenix DRS preamps (for vocals).

16 tracks total @ 24bit/48khz on a MacBook Pro 2ghz

Just finished the mixes on that project (its for a DVD) tonight. And i used Live for that as well. Normally i would mix through my console and outboard but the deadline was short and i needed the recallability. Plus the band didn't want a real processed sound anyway so it worked out quite well.

Not a single hicup in any of the 28 songs recorded. (20GB's of material recorded)

Live is dope. and I'd never touch PT if Live had the same capabilities where fades are concerned. Its a fantastic digital tape deck, and as a composition tool i've found that alot of bands i've worked are warming up to it.

I hear Live 6 is just around the corner as well, with some major improvements.

[jkamata]

Originally Posted by saintjasin

I'm a hip hop artist and I fell in love with live originally in it's capacity as a sample workstation vs. say an ASR or MPC. This is where it shines, it's very intuitive...I'm starting to incorporate vocals, synth plug ins etc.. and in recording and arranging you have a variety of approaches to take to quickly get stuff down. the sound of Pro Tools or other DAW's has sounded more professional to me in the past, but I'm trying out some waves plug in's and with the help of this site learning more about mixing and the shortcomings seem to be my fault, as they disappear the more I learn. I still would like to track to pro tools, but with an intel mac, I'll have to wait. But like alot of you said, live is different, it's in a class of its own. If you want to do your sketching in your DAW, I would go with it...
...the artifacts from some of the time stretching modes do irk me sometimes, can anybody reccomend a good VST for that?

get Melodyne 3.1..

as to the above ive been using Live for quite a while producin house, hip hop and commercials, and most impotantly ive been teaching Live 5.2 for half a year at a multimedia school here in Denmark..Live is the greatest scratchpad for commin up with ideas and arrangements and quite alright in the finishing touches of the production..nothing beats it in its automation scheme and everything is well laid out and intuitive..

considerations:
no video support (a real shame cuz the strecthing idea would be perf for quik editing for cinema), but u can use Revision from www.grantedsw.com (only drawback is that Live gets to be the slave and therefore u cannot use any plugins exept for Lives own, which is a major fukn drawback)
no dual support
no ability to sidechain compress (not the eq type, but kick comp bass like type), unless u have reaktor 5 and do a little here and there
oh yeah and i really miss the fades funtion from PT just like AJ

all these issues may change soon as hopefully Live 6 is on its way..

if u have any questions about Live feel free to ask..

[Dysanfel]

So who is using Live 8 as their main DAW? This app has come a long way.

[bigblessin]

i use ableton as my main daw. i got pro tools but i only use that if someone sends me a session. i dont know why people are scared of using live to record. i mixed a whole ablum using only live. i used other daws like cubase, sonar, acid etc but there was something about ableton live that made things so much easier. and if you dont like how a daw sounds that only means one thing. learn how to mix lol

[systematika]

Originally Posted by Dysanfel

So who is using Live 8 as their main DAW? This app has come a long way.

Ditto. I have switched from using Pro Tools to Live with the Max For Live extension. These guys are doing an awesome job at keeping things clean and efficient as far as the program goes and PT 6/7 are getting quite old now.

PT 8 in my opinion is Digi's Windows ME. It's a good effort, but they've dropped the ball. If Digi and the others don't step up SOON I think Live may take the crown as the best DAW for modern music production.

Everything about the software is configurable, editable, controllable. The editing is very similar to PT now.

It's still got some improvements to go such as easier fades, but you can program them to your hearts desire if you wish manually.

Runs well multi-platform too. Very stable application, doesn't clutter your computer with files, etc.

It seems as if they thought long and hard about putting everything anyone wanted to do into one application. I think it's only going to get better.

[n8tron]

Originally Posted by systematika

Runs well multi-platform too. Very stable application, doesn't clutter your computer with files, etc.

now hold on just one second... Live puts .asd files next to EVERY wave/aiff/mp3 etc. audio file that you use! I love Live but when I saw this I got pretty annoyed. I often drag mp3 from my itunes folders into live for reference or to jam with and now my itunes folders are cluttered with these files...

[Bootzilla]

Originally Posted by n8tron

now hold on just one second... Live puts .asd files next to EVERY wave/aiff/mp3 etc. audio file that you use! I love Live but when I saw this I got pretty annoyed. I often drag mp3 from my itunes folders into live for reference or to jam with and now my itunes folders are cluttered with these files...

You can set turn this off in the preferences somewhere (it should mention something about saving track warp data). The .asd file is there to save the warping info of the track and if you don't automatically warp files when you import them then it shouldn't create those files.

[systematika]

Originally Posted by Bootzilla

You can set turn this off in the preferences somewhere (it should mention something about saving track warp data). The .asd file is there to save the warping info of the track and if you don't automatically warp files when you import them then it shouldn't create those files.

Yeah, the asd files are actually pretty nice i think. If you turn warping off it won't create them as well like he said. What i meant though was everything is in a project file much like other DAWs though a bit more thought out than even pro tools.

[ableton123]

I use it as my only app. I have recorded up to 16 people at once with it. The stock plugins are pretty good. EQ8, Reverb is alright, and the comp is good if you know how to work it right.

I love it's flexibility, easy workflow, and great MIDI resources.

[michael callesen]

i use it to arrange my tracks in(btw i have a download version of live intro for sale for 75 euros if any1 is interested)

[n8tron]

Originally Posted by Bootzilla

You can set turn this off in the preferences somewhere (it should mention something about saving track warp data). The .asd file is there to save the warping info of the track and if you don't automatically warp files when you import them then it shouldn't create those files.

I did not know that, thanks so much!

As far as how things are set up in the project session, I feel like its just getting used to. I started on Digital Performer which handles things similar to Pro Tools. Coming from that way of doing things I've been a bit confused with Live's way of working and sorting. It's taken me such an incredibly long time to get used to working with it, and I'm still working on that.

The learning curve has been worth it though from a creative aspect.

[T'Mershi Duween]

Live is more like a freaky musique concrete instrument for manipulating sound in realtime than a recording app imho.

I've been using it since it first came out and love it. It's such an odd and creative app.

Great for dealing with loops, sound design, remixing, performing and just getting weird.

Using it like a DAW would be way too narrow minded, but if it was the only thing you had, you could certainly do it.

Live is like a post modern, experimental GarageBand designed by research scientists for gifted/troubled kids on acid.

It sure is fun on a laptop, spewing strange sounds through a great P.A. with light show/video projection in front of an audience though!

[systematika]

Originally Posted by T'Mershi Duween

Live is more like a freaky musique concrete instrument for manipulating sound in realtime than a recording app imho.

I've been using it since it first came out and love it. It's such an odd and creative app.

Great for dealing with loops, sound design, remixing, performing and just getting weird.

Using it like a DAW would be way too narrow minded, but if it was the only thing you had, you could certainly do it.

Live is like a post modern, experimental GarageBand designed by research scientists for gifted/troubled kids on acid.

It sure is fun on a laptop, spewing strange sounds through a great P.A. with light show/video projection in front of an audience though!

Well yeah, that's why I like it though.

The professional music community that's through university has been shoving down weird self made controller instrumentation with an emphasis in traditional musical structure for over twenty years now.

Think about it, if you created some crazy instrument with a wii remote in max for live and then did additons to it live as well on stage, wouldn't someone like that better than someone just playing a guitar as what has been happening for a long time now? I would think the answer to be yes.

Most of my friends in our twenties know nearly enough about computers to all be students in computer science just because we grew up with them and they were pounded into our heads all through our existance.

Who knew someone would create crazy art with it?

BT is one of those people, sort of a trailblazer I guess in that area. Times have changed though and many of the technologies he was using in his time (ESCM and Movement in Still Life) are standard features in professional experimental DAWs now.

Interesting games made by harmonix, which were all MIT and berklee students basically follow the same principle.

You can do anything you want to to a sound. Engineering is more of an experimental and composition tool now, a science to make sure it's still okay for people to listen to.

In my opinion max for live is almost as important as the tape recorder. I think we are going to see MANY bands in the near future that employ this technology to new and interesting ways......

At least ones that don't sound like bees buzzing and turned into drum machines.

[keefbaker]

For years I used it just as a live performance tool and sound manipulation tool and then I had to face the fact that my mac was too long in the tooth to do what I wanted with it any more and was faced with the option of either shell out a lot for a new mac or switch to the ninja gaming PC I had to change DAW from Logic.

I got a number of people saying, "you own Live 6, upgrade to 8 and use that".

So I did.

And it's great because you can mix using the improv and sound twisting with the usage of a traditional DAW which makes it extremely flexible.

Sometimes I'll write and record traditionally and sometimes not. Sometimes I'll improv over a middle section and use a number of the functions that make Live so great.

And I record a lot of audio tracks in my stuff and it works fine.

So, long story short (too late) you CAN use it to record a band like any other DAW if you like.