Inserting EXTERNAL compressors into Logic 8 ( using Apogee Symphony or Ensemble )

[DanRock101]

Ok High Enders, I need your help if you have time....

I feel I'm avoiding the RTFM/"Look at the other threads" on this one as I have looked at all the documentation available and haven't found any light to shed.

1) I'd like to use my external Distressor and Ridge Farm Boiler compressors in Logic 8.

2) I'd like to be able to use them POST TRACKING , ie, inserting or bussing them.

3) The scenario will be either in Apogee SYMPHONY ( via AD16X/DA16x OR Rosetta, take your pick) OR via Ensemble, which ever you guys use. These are the interfaces that I use/will plan to use (I have the Ensemble & will be upgrading the Symphony in December).


I'd like to find a way to INSERT THEM someway (the way you would on a mixer). I know it can be done SOMEHOW or IS there a way to do this in Maestro? I have to see my Distressor and Boilers go to waste OR to ONLY be used WHILE tracking (hence writing the compression TO the track)

Any help would be much appreciated!

[littledoodler]

bump, i would like to know this too. Also add Duet to the list.

[Elof]

I do this all the time using the I/O plug in (a logic plug in that is) and the Expert Sleepers Latency Fixer. Works like a charm. BTW I have never worked with the ensemble or maestro.

Make a copy of the track you want to insert the compressor on, just for checking what latency you have. My method is to do it by ear, I´m sure there are other methods that take much more time (you only have to do this once, unless you work in different sample rates).

Just connect the compressor/whatever unit to an analog I/O of your interface and send the signal through it with the I/O plug, prefferably without any gain reduction, so you can check your latency.

Solo both tracks in the arrange window... You MUST have the CPU saving (or whatever its called) solo mode and push the solo in the arrange window, not in the channelstrip to the left. If you solo your channelstrip, you will also have to solo the output that the I/O plug is using...

Make sure you´re playing them at the same level. Then insert the latency fixer plug in on one of the tracks, select that it works in samples in the plug in menu. Then just dial in the latency with the sample fader, you´ll have to listen very carefully to the phase shifting once you come close to perfect match, there´s only one value that is the correct one.

Maybe you have some documentation that came with your converters that tell the latency and will make it easier for you. I just listened and got it right. My latency is 213 samples @ 44,1 kHz, I´m using motu HD192 interfaces.

The thing is, it will never be perfect, as the smallest amount of compensation you can do in a DAW is one sample. You work in 44,1, the latency will always be between samples. I have no problem with this as it is the only way to insert hardware into the digital world. I´m even doing parallell compression with this method and it sounds very good with a good compressor. So I´m all happy...

[seaneldon]

A Symphony rig with Logic will pull off hardware inserts much faster and more effortlessly than the Ensemble will. Firewire devices will not make an I/O loop without noticeable latency, in my experience. With a Firewire box, you'd have to re-record the tracks and nudge them back rather than doing a realtime I/O loop.

[DanRock101]

So HOW does one insert hardware (compressors) into Symphony?
I mean, how is it ACTUALLY done? If there is a BOOK written about it, I'll GLADLY research it myself rather than bothering you all (hey, you guys have lives!!!!).......

I've always had my Boiler in the signal chain with my Gas Cookers and have loved the sound! BUT I'd like to use them insert into my DAW, maybe even as a bus comp.....

Any idea?

[DanRock101]

Ok, the author of this thread, ME, is killing this thread! On the SEARCH here on Gearslutz, I simply typed in "inserts" and found a slutload of things..... NO! typing in "insertING" or "inSERT" or "insert (whatever)" does NOT work.... it's the old addage... the LESS info asked for the BETTER! I guess it's like when you say BRUCE, MADONNA, PRINCE or PACINO.... you need NO other info!


THANKS! .......... off to Slutz Land!

[Idiophonic]

do you mean, how do you plug a line out into the comp, then plug the line out of the comp into a line in?

[Guitar Zero]

I'm glad you asked this question. I'm trying to do the same thing. I just want to run single tracks through outboard gear from Logic 8 (compressor, EQ, de-esser) and have Logic lay down a new track of the now compressed track. Can't figure it out. I've bought books on Logic, and the topic is never covered. Only use of plug-ins is covered, which I don't need. Anyone that's doing this that can lend a hand?

[Idiophonic]

I'm sorry, but how is it different than recording any other line level signal?

Assign the track you wish to record to its own output on your interface, connect this to the input of your outboard, connect the outboard's output to a line input on your interface.

Then create a new track, assign it the input you just plugged into, arm the track and press record. The track will play, output to the compressor, and return into this now-recording input. You might have a little latency you need to watch out for.

I can't think why this wouldn't be working for you...

[therodstu]

I would also Like to know how to accokmplish this. Thanks

[therodstu]

I am also interested while tracking. Say for instance I want to send the drum bus Out 3-4 then back in 1-2. I create the I/O on the bus then add it to my track in Logic. All I get is weird static and a faint signal. Whassuuup

[Elof]

It doesn´t get more simple:

Just insert the I/O plug in the channelstrip/bus you want to go through the hardware.
Plug the hardware into the desired I/O of your audio interface. GO.

If you want this latency compensated (which I assume you do), use the latency fixer plugin on that channel.

It can be done with any interface. Firewire, USB, PCI. It´s just that a USB/firewire interface will introduce more latency, but that is really no problem as you can compensate for it. Getting sample-perfect compensation.

I´m talking about real time hardware inserts, not sending audio through a unit and re-recording it on another track.

[Guitar Zero]

Originally Posted by Idiophonic

I'm sorry, but how is it different than recording any other line level signal?

Assign the track you wish to record to its own output on your interface, connect this to the input of your outboard, connect the outboard's output to a line input on your interface.

Then create a new track, assign it the input you just plugged into, arm the track and press record. The track will play, output to the compressor, and return into this now-recording input. You might have a little latency you need to watch out for.

I can't think why this wouldn't be working for you...

Thank you. I was hoping it was this simple. I just haven't been able to try it out because I don't have the firewire card and cable for my Rosetta yet. Your help is appreciated.

[H-Rezz]

Just try this ....

Artificial Audio Pluginmenu

[Elof]

Originally Posted by 529 Pro Audio

Which one is the 'latency fixer' plug? Is it sample delay?

-Chris

Expert Sleepers Latency Fixer

But it seems like H-Rezz had an even better plugin tip, haven´t checked it out yet...

[iangomes]

Originally Posted by Elof

I do this all the time using the I/O plug in (a logic plug in that is) and the Expert Sleepers Latency Fixer. Works like a charm. BTW I have never worked with the ensemble or maestro.

Make a copy of the track you want to insert the compressor on, just for checking what latency you have. My method is to do it by ear, I´m sure there are other methods that take much more time (you only have to do this once, unless you work in different sample rates).

Just connect the compressor/whatever unit to an analog I/O of your interface and send the signal through it with the I/O plug, prefferably without any gain reduction, so you can check your latency.

Solo both tracks in the arrange window... You MUST have the CPU saving (or whatever its called) solo mode and push the solo in the arrange window, not in the channelstrip to the left. If you solo your channelstrip, you will also have to solo the output that the I/O plug is using...

Make sure you´re playing them at the same level. Then insert the latency fixer plug in on one of the tracks, select that it works in samples in the plug in menu. Then just dial in the latency with the sample fader, you´ll have to listen very carefully to the phase shifting once you come close to perfect match, there´s only one value that is the correct one.

Maybe you have some documentation that came with your converters that tell the latency and will make it easier for you. I just listened and got it right. My latency is 213 samples @ 44,1 kHz, I´m using motu HD192 interfaces.

The thing is, it will never be perfect, as the smallest amount of compensation you can do in a DAW is one sample. You work in 44,1, the latency will always be between samples. I have no problem with this as it is the only way to insert hardware into the digital world. I´m even doing parallell compression with this method and it sounds very good with a good compressor. So I´m all happy...

Lol, poor Elof, answers the question perfectly, then 5 people ask 'how do i do it?' without reading his post lol.

[DanRock101]

Thanks Idiophonic and Elof!

Wow, I thought I would have NO answers for this!
I was about to totally chuck my Apogee Ensemble system for a Symphony system because I thought that that was the only way. THANKS!

Although, I almost always track WITH compression (my Ridge Farm Boiler is in the chain for my over heads or ROOM mics for my drums; Distressor with acoustic and/or vocals; LA610 for vocals).... BUT I'd like to use my Boiler and Distressors POST PRODUCTION as well. I'll give the above a try. Can't wait! THANKS!

[DanRock101]

Originally Posted by Idiophonic

I'm sorry, but how is it different than recording any other line level signal?

Assign the track you wish to record to its own output on your interface, connect this to the input of your outboard, connect the outboard's output to a line input on your interface.

Then create a new track, assign it the input you just plugged into, arm the track and press record. The track will play, output to the compressor, and return into this now-recording input. You might have a little latency you need to watch out for.

I can't think why this wouldn't be working for you...

Just wanna thank you for your help!

[DanRock101]

Originally Posted by therodstu

I am also interested while tracking. Say for instance I want to send the drum bus Out 3-4 then back in 1-2. I create the I/O on the bus then add it to my track in Logic. All I get is weird static and a faint signal. Whassuuup

[Delta Heavy]

There is a major bug when using the I/O plugin on aux channels

there are a couple of 'fixes', check this thread:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/362105-logic-pro-8-aux-latency-i-o-fixes.html