Which DAW has the best automation?

[Murray]

And by best, I mean easiest.

Easiest to write and easiest to edit. Which wins for the fewest amount of mouse clicks?

I find Cubase SX's automation to be somewhat awful. Just the fact that you have to open up lanes can get annoying (20 tracks is now 40 tracks for volume alone...that's a lot of mess on an arrange window...with a million teensy tiny dots to edit).

Or maybe someone can point me to a tutorial on how best to work with Cubase automation. It shouldn't be that hard to tweak a song, should it? Computers should make this cake, I would think.

[BLUElightCory]

I haven't used every DAW out there, but it's hard to imagine automation being any easier or more extensive than it is on Pro Tools. The automation is very easy to use and I've never run into a situation where PT couldn't pull off what I need (and I use a TON of automation in my mixes). It's also very nice to be able to automate any parameter of any plug-in, in addition to the basic volume/mute/pan/etc. functions. Throw in the multiple automation modes (touch/latch/trim/etc.) and you're all set.

[Oxytoxine]

forgive me to point out the obvious, but: the big advantage of having each automation curve on its own lane is clarity in case you have several things automated per track.

i think the amount of mouseclicks between the hosts i know is similar, but depending on how extensive you use automation cubase is very fast.

you can try out reaper, there you have all the automation curves on the original track. i would prefer this in theory, too, but it looks awful and confusing as soon as you have several parameters automated (and to hide the curves you need again a few mouseclicks).

[taturana]

automation in sonar 7 is excellent and very easy to use...

[miguelmrq]

For my needs, automation in Digital Performer is perfect and flawless.

[Lagerfeldt]

Logic Pro probably has the best automation features.

[huub]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Logic Pro probably has the best automation features.

But logic has no snapshot automation!
Quite impossible to mix a concert without it..
I do love logic though..

[Lagerfeldt]

Sorry for my ignorance in that matter, but what do you mena by "snapshot automation"?

My comment about Logic Pro having the best automation was a joke by the way, as everybody in this thread seemd to recommend a new DAW each time..

I do love Logic too, and generally the automation system is easy and very flexible, especially if you learn to use the key commands, it blows ProTools' automation out the window in my opinion.

[Mark Kaufman]

What this thread has taught me:

The best at automation is Cubase, ProTools, Logic Pro, Digital Performer, Sonar 7 and Reaper.

...Did we miss anyone?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman

What this thread has taught me:

The best at automation is Cubase, ProTools, Logic Pro, Digital Performer, Sonar 7 and Reaper.

...Did we miss anyone?

N-Track!

[DAWgEAR]

I use Cubase (I don't care for its automation functionality) but Nuendo 4's automation looks intriguing. I haven't used Nuendo 4, so I can't say it's the best, but it is worthy of being considered/investigated.

Hopefully Cubase 5 will inherit it.

Another DAW to add to the list.

[Franco]

I noticed the other day, while accidentally opening up the Multitrack view in Adobe Audition 3, that the automation features are pretty much the same as Pro Tools' (write/touch/latch). No additional automation tracks needed, as far as I can tell.

add Adobe Audition 3.

[ryst]

Pro tools

[huub]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Sorry for my ignorance in that matter, but what do you mena by "snapshot automation"?

My comment about Logic Pro having the best automation was a joke by the way, as everybody in this thread seemd to recommend a new DAW each time..

I do love Logic too, and generally the automation system is easy and very flexible, especially if you learn to use the key commands, it blows ProTools' automation out the window in my opinion.

Snapshot as in: turn off the automation, mix away, you're happy with the mix, click 'snapshot' or 'snapshot region' and your settings are applied as automation to the rest of the song (or to a particular region), with the option to for example only write fader settings, or eq, or both or whatever.. Essential to mixing live recorded concerts, and missing from logic..
Is anyone mixing DVD's in logic? How do you guys do that?

Greets,
huub

[Murray]

Yes, snapshot automation!! That would be nice, probably solve my frustration.

When was that invented? Last century?

And only now Nuendo 4 get's it?

I think Reaper is developing it...that would be something. A new relatively cheap DAW has a feature that most expensive ones don't.

I mean, what good are all those dumb automation curve shapes that Cubase has? Why waste time on that? Does anyone EVER use those? But something simple like snapshots? No.

I really think DAW developers need to focus more on making the work flow DEAD SIMPLE. They all sound the same, they all do the same things...it's the work flow!

I want to make music, I don't want to zoom in and out all day trying to select tiny little dots!!

(ranting a little )

[taturana]

Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman

What this thread has taught me:

The best at automation is Cubase, ProTools, Logic Pro, Digital Performer, Sonar 7 and Reaper.

...Did we miss anyone?

and it's probably right... most major daws have automation and they are pretty easy to automate.... not really a major defining point anymore...

[Murray]

Originally Posted by taturana

and it's probably right... most major daws have automation and they are pretty easy to automate.... not really a major defining point anymore...

But, as was just pointed out, most don't even have snapshot automation. Why would Nuendo add it as a great new feature if it wasn't any sort of defining point.

What do you use and how do you use it? Give me some tips please! How many mouse clicks for you to automate a mix?

[mattiasnyc]

I think Nuendo 4.x has the best automation out there. It's very versatile and not that hard to work with. But then again, it depends on how you work and if you have other tools that you use with it (such as controllers). But I think Nuendo's is very hard to beat. Pro Tools certainly don't beat Nuendo in this case. Not to say PT is bad, just to say N is better....

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Logic Pro probably has the best automation features.

coo - you're normally briliant and bang on opinions whither!!

I like Logic - but it's automation is a bit cumbersome.

PT for me - simple layers and bang on. Nuendo has improved recently - but i agree, i don't like all the drop downs.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by mattiasnyc

I think Nuendo 4.x has the best automation out there. It's very versatile and not that hard to work with. But then again, it depends on how you work and if you have other tools that you use with it (such as controllers). But I think Nuendo's is very hard to beat. Pro Tools certainly don't beat Nuendo in this case. Not to say PT is bad, just to say N is better....

VCA trim VCA trim VCA.... and that's why yer wrong ! ha ha ! As i said above - Nuendo has massively improved but just he simple things that one needs aint there !!

We have Nuendo in one of the rooms and many here prefer it - make it more layered and lose the drop downs and I reckon it'd be grand.

[Funk Dracula]

What's kind of great about Logics automation is the abilty to choose to view different lanes of everything that's going on. You can work like Pro Tools choosing what parameter to view on the main track, or hit a triangle on the track and view as many different lanes that you desire. When things get cluttered simply close the lanes. Plus it show's everything that's going on with different faded colors behind what your working on.

The big drawback of Pro Tools is you can only view one parameter at a time. This gets annoying if your trying to coordinate some slick trickery. Let's say I want to automate the feedback and time of a delay on a channel to coincide with a send ramp up on that same channel. Unless the move is done in grid mode or on a control surface, it's annoying to "guess" if I'm matching the moves because I simply can't view them both at the same time.

Or let's say I have a stereo track that I wish to automate quickly to sum to a mono track and pan from left to right. That's anoying. I hate having to guess at it and see the two pans on a stereo track never aligning up and moving together in unison.

Or take trying to do a DJ type filter sweep with McDSP filter bank. Wow I wish I could just see my highpass frequency and the peak parameter at the same time so I can stop drawing it in, hitting play, hearing it wrong and going back and forth and back and forth between the two views. When I'm on the Control 24 it's better because I can just use my ears and hands and wing it in real time, but penciling that in?

I had lunch a few weeks ago with my Digidesign rep and he was telling me about Pro Tools 8, and how it's gonna be the bigest overhall Pro Tools has ever done. He asked me what features I'd like to see and the first thing out of my mouth was "Automation lanes! Check out the way Logic does it and please tell the programers at Digi to feel free to rip that off!"

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by miguelmrq

For my needs, automation in Digital Performer is perfect and flawless.

I agree. I find the DP system to be very usable and complete

[SFTPH]

+1 DP
Snapshot is great & ability to quantize automation is really helpful for SFX . The fact Logic 8 still doesn't do this is lame.

[taturana]

Originally Posted by Murray

But, as was just pointed out, most don't even have snapshot automation. Why would Nuendo add it as a great new feature if it wasn't any sort of defining point.

What do you use and how do you use it? Give me some tips please! How many mouse clicks for you to automate a mix?

well...the number of mouseclicks depends on what you're automating and how complex it is...what i like about sonar is that i am able to automate about every parameter of every plugin as well as the fx sends returns. i don't use snapshot automation, though it's been a sonar feature for a long time... the envelope curves and sometimes riding faders on the console view or the plugin itself as well (that takes 2 mouse clicks) and clip automation is the way i go about it normally... also the envelope tool allows working with complex automation changes... the other thing i like is to drag and drop envelope curves with or without the related audio... today it was a very useful feature as i was making a 7 second tv cue into a 15s one, by adding 8 seconds of music to the begginning of it and it was very helpful to drag alll the tracks to their new place with all the automation data... saved me a lot of time.

just the fact that the curves area all there ( and i can hide or show any that i want) and that i can manipulate it in many ways, and the fact that it works flawlessly, for me makes sonar 's automation awesome. i also like the record automation button on every plugin window that automatically arms all fx parameter for automation a big plus. also being able to defeat automation (or record new automation) with a button on every track/bus is very useful if you are making alternate mixes and don't want the automation. or when you're finshing up a mix.


also, there's great support for midi/usb controllers in sonar which is a great big plus.

[filin]

I love Ableton for automation: Click on ANY automatable parameter (vol/pan, any plugin control), and that then automatically becomes focused on that track, for instant editing delight. And you can open up as many more lanes as you need and see it all at once.

[Timur Born]

Yes, Live 7 is nice for its automation lanes and different grid options (different fixed sizes and note quantisation including triolig grids). When in Selection mode a simple click of shift allows you to delete grip-points, but I don't know any method to make it snap to the grid whereas in Draw mode it will always snap to the grid unless you press alt.

But everything has to be drawn/recorded manually, there are no tools to make editing automation easier like predefined curves or beziers and I've got a feeling that most other DAWs are stronger in that department.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by Funk Dracula

The big drawback of Pro Tools is you can only view one parameter at a time. This gets annoying if your trying to coordinate some slick trickery. Let's say I want to automate the feedback and time of a delay on a channel to coincide with a send ramp up on that same channel. Unless the move is done in grid mode or on a control surface, it's annoying to "guess" if I'm matching the moves because I simply can't view them both at the same time.

Or let's say I have a stereo track that I wish to automate quickly to sum to a mono track and pan from left to right. That's anoying. I hate having to guess at it and see the two pans on a stereo track never aligning up and moving together in unison.

That is where a control surface really speeds up work flow different automation modes switching on the fly, you can see the automation on console as your playing the mix. VCA/Trim and VCA-Trim Coalesce very handy. Plus the 'link panners' function makes stereo track panning a snap. The screen is limiting and having automation lanes for all the automation fill the screen up fast. A shortcut to switch between the automation parameters is probably better for screen real estate.

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

The screen is limiting and having automation lanes for all the automation fill the screen up fast. A shortcut to switch between the automation parameters is probably better for screen real estate.

No it doesn't IMO, once you have done your Automation you reduce your lanes to what you feel you will need to keep going with, you do not need to have lanes opened all the time ! It truly is a great feature being able to see multiple automation settings, this also includes plug-in parameters on seperate lanes ...... switching automation parameters still does not help with the co-ordination between different automation moves which you can align against each other .... i suppose you would have to work with it to see why this is great , P.tools should get automation lanes and Logic should get Automation snapshots i think this is fair

[Alxi]

I own both Sonar and PT and to me PT is by far the more intuitive and easy way to go.

-Alxi-

[matt thomas]

I'm a logic / PT user, but I really liked Nuendo's automation features when I used it for a sort period of time, although I imagine that it is the same as cubase SX

so I say cubase SX

narco