please help, dropouts: logic->digi9652->DA16x

[shangoe]

i have dropouts when going out on multiple channels.

my new setup:

mac g4 2x450mhz
logic 5.5
rme digi9652 - output on adat 1,2 via opitcal
apogee da16x
no clocking connection


the dificult thing here is to locate the problem. is it logic, the card, the cables or the da16x? when it comes to dropout, the logic meters still shows levels. there are less dropouts when playing only 8 channels 1-2, 3-4 and 9-10, 11-12.

anny sugestion welcome, i need to fix this ASAP!

[DrDeltaM]

Use a larger buffer. Seems your computer can't handle all the data in time if you exceed a certain number of tracks. Can be due to a slow harddisk for example.

[shangoe]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

Use a larger buffer. Seems your computer can't handle all the data in time if you exceed a certain number of tracks. Can be due to a slow harddisk for example.

thank you, but its not that. i called to apogee (very good costumer-support, btw) they told me to use shorter opticals. i had 5meters. i made a test with a 50 cm short one and it made it better. but still not stable enough. now there are some small spikes and short distortions and sometimes nothing. its running stable like 20 min. and then its crappin totaly out, and i have to reboot. maybe i have to clock the rme-card with the apogee.?

more suggestions? thx!

[DrDeltaM]

I'd sure would use the Apogee as master clock yes. Is your RME the lastest firmware and driver? check http://www.rme-audio.com/english/download/drivers.htm .

Good luck!

[shangoe]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

I'd sure would use the Apogee as master clock yes. Is your RME the lastest firmware and driver? check http://www.rme-audio.com/english/download/drivers.htm .

Good luck!

yes, i will try this next. what i dont understand is that this is a typical studio-setup: AD->DAW->DA but if you ask people how to run it everybody have a diferent answer. and i asked EVERYBODY. i talked to apogee, dan lavry himself, RME, gearslutz...very confusing.

dan lavry: dont use external clocking at all
RME: oh no, this cant work, everything has to be clocked by one master. and if you try to clock the RME by the apogee, you will get some trouble to sync the lavry...

is this the holy grail of digital audio?

[DrDeltaM]

I forgot about your Lavry AD... Choose one masterclock and distribute wordclock to all the slaves instead of just syncing over ADAT maybe?

[shangoe]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

I forgot about your Lavry AD... Choose one masterclock and distribute wordclock to all the slaves instead of just syncing over ADAT maybe?

yes, but its not easy to distribute wordclock properly without multiple clock outs. at this point you will find 10 new theorys how to hock this together. dan lavry was very kind to explain me why a converter is better clocked by itself. but he dont know the RME interface. maybe this is the weak point the most important thing is to know how to run the whole system. and it seems that optical adat is a very weak link. (thinkin about to get a lynx aes16 to get rid of it).

[shangoe]

update:

made the da16x clock the rme....damn, sounds good! more lowend...but still a few droputs. its the ****in lightpipes. the short one stays solid, the long one drops out...this will be a pain in the ass to move the computer closer to the patchbay, need longer monitorcable...

[edyer]

Man that sux. I use the same type of setup ( only lucid converters )and have never had that sort of issue. I can use the rme as master or slave. Both sound fine as long as the converters and card are all set up correctly. You should be able to send all your clocking and everything through the lightpipe cables. do you have the rme setup to receive or send sync? Obvious I know but if you look at the control panel and they are all showing sync ( not lock ) then something else is probably the culprit. Maybe you have a bad cable ( kinked or something ) but that seems to be what you said so
Good luck
Eric

[shangoe]

called apogee again. they say: no lightpipes over 3 meters. so tomorrow my rme have the last chance to work with shorter lightpipes before i kick it out of my studio.

and i will get a second bnc to involve the lavry...clocking like this: lavry->Tconector, RME->DA16x


i would like to invite all people with converters conected via lightpipe to an RME to say something about their setup, clocking etc....please coment...

[shangoe]

interesting thing i heard today: i talked to a guy here in berlin who is building some highend digital controlers and digi patchbays. he says: lightpipe is the totaly wrong technolgy for 8 channel audio. its like driving in a beatle with 250mph, maybe its possible, but do you feel safe? tutt

[cdog]

Originally Posted by shangoe

he says: lightpipe is the totaly wrong technolgy for 8 channel audio.

While I agree lightpipe is not ideal, its very practical and there is no reason it should not work with your setup.

Apogees sends clock to the RME, which sends clock to the Lavry. Its not an ideal star formation but with only 3 chained devices it should work fine (has for me YMMV). When you're WC chaining 5+ devices its time for a WC master aka BB.

C

[shangoe]

the pain is over!


i got some new opticals, 2m. the are handmade by this guy i tallked about before. intresting detail: he made it that the optical core is 1mm longer out of the plug. never seen this before on readymade cables. maybe this helps to make the connection more stable.everything is clocked by the lavry, running stable for the now 3 ours... and i get multiple sound orgasms

i was a litle disapointed because so few people aswering on my last 3 threads about this, but its like always in life: you have always to go through this shit alone... now im happy to make musik again, the last month was only work and work to buy this stuff, bulding my own racks, soldering my fingers bloody...

thank you!

[DrDeltaM]

Great to hear!

Have fun with your great convertors now!

[MarkyGoldstein]

Hello,

I have the same problem, I guess. Already a long time, I never had the time to fight the trouble.

I thought it had to do with temperature, because it happens after 20 minutes and only when using multiple outs... hmm...

Anyway, my setup is RME Hammerfall, Apogee AD-16X, Apogee DA-16X, Apogee Big Ben being the clock master (all others are slaves...).

So ok, did I read this right, I have to get better ADAT lightpipe cables?
Where?
Can I get this in Europe ?
Order it from the US ?

I am thankful to have found this thread.


(tags: Audio dropouts, AD-16X, Big Ben, temperature, hot, ADAT, RME)

[MarkyGoldstein]

Today I checked my ADAT cables and they were mixed lengths (3 and 2 meters), then I rewired everything with just 2 meter ADAT cables, and made the test (send 16 channels out, wait maybe 30 minutes letting it getting hot), and it still had dropouts - maybe less. The dropout only happened on channels 9 - 16 today.

Wordclock's apparently fine, the machine is definitely playing audio (also visible in RME TotalMix), and all buffers set very high (1024 ms).

I will get shorter cables ADAT tomorrow (1 meter) and in even shorter ones (0.5 meter) in a few days. Let's see if this fixes the dropouts...

[MarkyGoldstein]

After I did set it up with shorter 1m ADAT cables of higher quality, it seems to work properly. So in case you have dropouts, check with alternative cables.

You can also easily test your AD-16X with an DA-16X, because you can connect them directly with AES or Adat and send some test signal into the AD-16X and listen through the DA-16X. This exclude the computer / DAW as an error source. And you can find out where the problem could be (Adat, AES, etc.).

By the way: the Apogee support team is very good and helpful. Thanks.

[RobAnderson]

Some years ago I had problems with dropouts with my (old) AD16.

Turns out it was an improperly seated AES option card.

Just wanted to put that out there, in case changing ADAT cables isn't working for some poor schlep.