RME HDSP9652/Cubase SX3 routing output problem

[uvc1977]

Hello all

Ive just bought a RME HDS9652 and I have a problem with routing the outputs. If for instance i want to record on input 6 (RME HDSP9652) it will automatically send the signal of output 6 (RME HDSP9652), however if in Cubase SX3 I want to rout the signal to lets say output 1 (RME HDSP9652), it will then send the signal to ouput 1, but continue to monitor on output 6 at the sametime. I havent been able to solve this problem, do you have any suggestions?

If it helps im using 'tapemachine' monitoring option in Cubase.

cheers

[bobby yarrow]

I'm not sure I fully follow your question, but I'll say:

- TotalMix is a little more powerful than any other DSP mixer I've worked on. Make sure you really get how each input can be routed to each output or all outputs or any of them. Same goes for software playback channels.

- I don't monitor thru cubase ever, unless it's a vsti or something where I have no choice. Recommend setting monitoring to 'manual.' If I have to monitor thru cubase, I mute that input in TotalMix to avoid the slight doubling.

Good luck.

[uvc1977]

cheers ill try to explain it better.

Example lets say the signal is routed on total mix software through input 6. This will then show up on the input meter on channel 6 in cubase. Everythings cool. Then in Cubase I send the signal to a group channel 1 (this is assigned to output 1 in the total mix software), however in total mix output routing will be on audio 1 and 6. Essentially i want Total Mix to correspond the routing I do in Cubase. So if i rout to output 24 in Cubase the signal will then only appear in Total Mix on 24. I dont want to have to open up the total mix software everytime and mute a output ie 6. I just want to do all my routing in Cubase SX3, and leave Total Mix running away in the background. I hope that makes sense.

cheers

[gtrmac]

It sounds like you have Direct Monitoring enabled in Cubase. This will only allow monitoring on the same number output that the signal is coming in on. These are signals that are passing through the software. TotalMix adds another layer to the system as it allows routing the inputs directly to any physical output on the audio card while also allowing you to re-route the outputs FROM the software.

I usually just do everything in TotalMix and avoid Direct Monitoring in Cubase. this gives the most options anyway.

Yes, it can be confusing. Reading the manuals again may help to clarify things.

[crypticglobe]

Originally Posted by gtrmac

It sounds like you have Direct Monitoring enabled in Cubase. This will only allow monitoring on the same number output that the signal is coming in on. These are signals that are passing through the software. TotalMix adds another layer to the system as it allows routing the inputs directly to any physical output on the audio card while also allowing you to re-route the outputs FROM the software.

I usually just do everything in TotalMix and avoid Direct Monitoring in Cubase. this gives the most options anyway.

Yes, it can be confusing. Reading the manuals again may help to clarify things.

Ok... hold up. That is totally incorrect. RME's totalmix is the only DSP mixer that properly supporst Steinbergs ASIO 2.0 Asio Direc Monitoring protocol. If you are on a PC... then whatever routings you make in Cubase should be automatically done in totalmix behind the scenes. You don't even have to open it. If you have a Mac.... it's a different story. Thanks to the folks at Apple.... direct monitoring does not work AT ALL currently.

Do you have a Mac or PC?

[bobby yarrow]

Hmm. My hammerfall manual says: "Hammerfall DSP supports 'ASIO Direct Monitoring' (ADM). Please note that at this time Cubase, Nuendo and Logic do not support ADM correctly. Bugfixes should be available soon." Maybe that's been worked out. ADM is meant to be the equivalent of ZLM in Samplitude, maybe? Doesn't make any difference for me, I just monitor off the card rather than in the software, so I've never really figured it out.

[crypticglobe]

It works flawlessly to the ASIO specifications as it relatest to channel routings. What is not covered in the ASIO protocol is FX sends routings. The channel routings are all fully covered and remote controlled automatically.

I have been using this method in all of my production machines for years now.

[bobby yarrow]

I'm mainly just curious, but also pretty new to RME and wondering if there's something I'm missing. Are you using ADM because you're routing to an outboard mixer, or is it useful in some other way? And, does it work on inputs or only output routing? I should read up on this stuff. There's very little about ADM in the RME manual, and I may be missing the overall concept.

[crypticglobe]

Originally Posted by bobby yarrow

I'm mainly just curious, but also pretty new to RME and wondering if there's something I'm missing. Are you using ADM because you're routing to an outboard mixer, or is it useful in some other way? And, does it work on inputs or only output routing? I should read up on this stuff. There's very little about ADM in the RME manual, and I may be missing the overall concept.

Ok, sure. The concept is kind or hard to explain. Much easier to show in person... but here goes.

Ok. So let's start with having ADM OFF in Cubase SX 3.0. When you make routing assignments on track within the cubase mixer (say input 7 to output 1 & 2) it does exactly what you expect. It routes the single from that channel (coming input 7) to outputs 1 & 2 as assigned. However, you are subject to the latency of the sound card. So, the higher the buffer, the more unusable the latency makes your system. The lower buffer, the less CPU power you have.

Direct Monitoring is of course the solution. ASIO direct monitoring allows you to set the buffer very high (which would normally cause large amounts of latency), but greatly lowers the CPU load, and use the DSP mixer that comes with your Sound Card to route audio RIGHT at the sound card... which is zero latency (well almost zero - you still have to figure in the latency of the conversion - but that is pretty much not detectable). So, ok... great... you have zero latency... but now you have this second (and often very complicated) mixer that you have to wrangle with outside of Cubase. Well, in the ADM protocol, Steinberg solved that problem by writing in hooks that allow the routing, level, and pan settings of the Cubase Mixer "remote control" the corresponding routing, level, and pan settings of sound card DSP mixers that support this protocol. Thus far, the only one I have found that really does this right is RME's totalmix.

Here is how it works: When ADM is on, Cubase's mixer REMOTE CONTROLS the totalmix mixer. You see this work by doing the following (assuming you are on a PC and not a Mac:

1. In the total mix mixer, set the view to "submix".

2. Then select outputs 1 & 2 in Totalmix so you are now view all the input assignments for outputs 1 & 2.

3. Be sure Direc Monitoring is ON in Cubase.

4. Now, in Cubase create 8 mono tracks. Set each one's output to output 1 & 2, and set their inputs to match their channel numbers (1-8).

5. Now, open up Totalmix and be sure it's set to "always on top".

6. Now, enable monitoring on channel 1. You will see the totalmix fader jump from zero to the same level as the cubase fader! Move the cubase fader... you will see the totalmix fader follow! Move the channel pan in cubase. You will see the fader in Totalmix follow! Do the same thing for any of the other 8 channels. You will see that all your moves are PERFECTLY mirrored in Totalmix.

This is what is happening "under the hood" wether you realize it or not, when you use direct monitoring. Of course when you use ADM you are not actually routing audio through the Cubase mixer so any plug-ins you have will not be heard during tracking, but will then be heard on playback.

This allows you to set up fairly complex monitoring IN cubase, and never have to look at totalmix. Very nice.

Some things to watch out for.

1. Totalmix has been set at -6db pan law for some time. To make levels match exactly while using ADM, you should set Cubase to -6db as well. However, RME has just released a new version of Totalmix (and drivers) for the Fireface and HDSP MADI that have an adjustable pan law. Yea!! I believe these features will be coming very soon for the rest of the HDSP line of products. Also, with the new drivers you now have the ability to turn OFF this ADM remote control if you so choose.

2. If you have any plug-in's on the channel, or Cubase's master buss they will throw off you monitor levels because you won't have those effects during ADM monitoring.

I hope this all makes sense. ADM is really great with Totalmix. Many, Many people use it every day... and don't even REALIZE they are using it... because it just works. Gotta love that.

Just my 2 cents...

[bobby yarrow]

Wow, thanks for an excellent explanation. I wonder if I get it. The way I work now, I use totalmix to create various submixes -- control room, live room, a separate headphone mix, whatever. If I want to have something from playback that is in one of those mixes but not all -- like, if I don't want to hear the clicktrack but the guitar player does -- I route the click to separate playback channel in cubase, and then bring that channel up in the headphone mix in totalmix. As you can see, I basically never need to monitor in cubase at all, vsti's being the exception. Is there any cpu or audio advantage to switching over to ADM, or is just the convenience of not having to deal with the totalmix interface?

[uvc1977]

crypticglobe thanks for that detailed reply. I was using preset 3 but I didnt have submix selected. i tried that and im now it is pretty much working the way I want it to do.

Yep im using PC, but i have been thinking about making the switch to mac - but i didnt know about the lack of ASIO Direct Monitoring on the Mac - so now that has got me thinking. Hmmm not really sure what to do. Ill post a new thread for that