something to warm up that digital bite

[leftcoastproduc]

wondering if someone can recommend a good pre to warm up my digital signal....I am using lots of vst's now and would like something to take off the edge....something that will also function as a stereo comp would be nice and is under $1000

[Sammas]

Digital bite?? Well if you are suffering from digital bite maybe a new Daw is in order because digital audio hasn't suffered from "digital bite" for quite some time...


If you are talking about adding some colour to VSTi's then thats a completely different thing. It certianly isn't digital bite because i have used many VSTi's that sound fantastic straight from the word go.

Try a sebatron Valve preamp. It'll go from nice a round to very gritty. Neve also add a nice colour to things and are very nice on guitars. Api's work well to emphaise dynamics...

[Jules]

Try a Fatso Jnr

[leftcoastproduc]

I was eyeing that Fatso Jr too bad I don't have a couple of grand right now.....as for the digital bite comment my intentions are to add some warmth to my DAW system....don't need a new one just need to find a nice warm jacket for it

have either of you guys used the Avalon 747sp? ideally I'd like to get a nice Eq and Compressor to go with my pre-amp.....

[Jules]

I dont know that a pre or compressor are the thing to provide 'warmth'

One boosts gain / the other compresses



Do you want it to 'fix' audio already in your DAW?

Or to put better sounding audio INTO your DAW?

Does it need to be stereo?

Anything you like the look of so far?

Isnt PSP Vintage Warmer supposed to be great for this type of thing?

(I dont know much about VST stuff...)

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally posted by leftcoastproduc
..as for the digital bite comment my intentions are to add some warmth to my DAW system....don't need a new one just need to find a nice warm jacket for it

What Sammas was getting at was that if you're getting "digital bite", then the fault lies solely in your converters and you should look into a better quality A/D front end. Good digital converters sound excellent and if you can't get them to sound good, then the problem is not "digital", it's the recording skills of the engineer or the talent that's in front of the mic that's the problem.

[bloodstone]

I have been having excellent results slapping an Avalon 747sp on my 2 buss and engaging the tube circuit before I print my mixes to PC through the analog ins of a PCI audio card. The difference is pretty amazing, especially when you overdrive the input a little bit. I do have an outboard digital recorder, and mix through a Soundcraft Ghost. Maybe you could nab one on Ebay for a little more than $1,000.00

[XHipHop]

A used tape machine?

[Teacher]

If you want warmth just put a Lo pass filter on your 2 bus around 12K, There definitly won't be any digital bite after that

[leftcoastproduc]

hey guys thanks for all the input......

digital bite is probably the wrong term to describe what I mean.....I don't have any clipping,popping,or latency issues.....but I can't help but notice that I am not getting a full warm signal in some of my tracks.....after browsing a few forums I read that a good pre will warm up most signals....that and or good converters in your sound card in which I am using 2x M Audio Delta 1010's....I know they aren't legendary but they work pretty well and I have heard nothing about ridding them....

I want to be able to effect any signals in and outside of my computer with a nice warm stereo pre whether its on a bus or in a loop coming out the comp and back into it.....ideally I would like to have a multi unit to save space and money(this is where it gets tricky) so I have been looking at the Avalon 747sp....I'm sure there is other units out there for a little less I just don't know if there is something to be had that is of quality that I won't want to upgrade......unfortunetly the EL Fatso Jr is never on sale and I can't see myself waiting to get another grand together
as for the used tape machine well I know nothing about using them and I don't have any kind of room for one...although its the real deal

most of the music I make is in the electronic realm where things tend to get cold...I make music called deep house which is a little different from the average banging dance tunes it has alot more organic sounds ie. live percussion,rhodes,wurlys,acoustic guitar.....I use as much live instrumentation as I can whether its guitar or conga's through my Joe Meek Vc1q and most of my drums are recorded to HD from my RS 7000 or Waldorfs Attack.....I don't use a digital mixer or Adat everything is recorded to HD.....

here's a look at my setup maybe this will help......

Sonar 3.1 Pro
2x Delta 1010's
Wavelab 5
Waves Renaissance & Diamond Bundle
Izotope Spectron and Trash
many vsti's

Mackie 1202 Vlz Pro
Krk Rokit 8's
Joe Meek Vc1q & Sc 2.2
Dbx 119
Tc Electronics M2000
Ensoniq dp4+

Korg Triton Classic
Roland Jd-800 & Jd-990
Roland Gr-33
Waldorf Q & Microwave XT
Yamaha RS 7000
Emu Xl-7

Roland Strat w/midi
Aslin Dane es 335 copy
Fernandez Strat
Classical guitar
12 string

LP Matador Conga's & Bongo's

2x Shure 57's
Sennheiser E 835
Mxl 990 &991

I know these are not the best mics for recording but for acoustic instr. they have worked for me I am not complaining about these takes

sorry for the long posts guys hopefully I've given enough info on my situation.....

just in a guy posted this ad have any of you used one of these and how is it compared to the Avalon 747sp

Sebatron VMP-2000E 2 channel tube mic pre / di - $925

[syrupcore]

Micing the synths through an amp might help some.

will

[leftcoastproduc]

Originally posted by syrupcore
Micing the synths through an amp might help some.

will

ya I hear ya I only have a Vibro Champ as far as amps go

[Riad]

McDSP Analog Channel

[leftcoastproduc]

I'm running a PC so all those nice Mcdsp plugs are not gonna work

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by Jules
Isnt PSP Vintage Warmer supposed to be great for this type of thing?

it can to some extent... and also it can add a full set of teeth to a track as well. all on how you set it up.

[BrianBrian]

UA-610 preamps are gigantic sounding and very warm but maybe too colorful or distorted to use on everything. Once you are inside the box, there are a lot of cost effective alternatives.

Vintage Warmer sounds too "farty" and brittle to me, but I guess a lot of other people like it. You ought to check out Voxengo. Aleksey there codes better stuff at a fraction of the price. Specifically, look for Warmifier and the AnalogFlux suite. Both of those combined are less than $200.

[Riad]

Originally posted by leftcoastproduc
I'm running a PC so all those nice Mcdsp plugs are not gonna work

I guess you haven't check out their website for a while... they're all available for XP.

I have mine running on XP... go get em now!!

[leftcoastproduc]

Originally posted by Riad
I guess you haven't check out their website for a while... they're all available for XP.

I have mine running on XP... go get em now!!

looks like they are only for Pro Tools systems though

taken from their site
"McDSP has announced full Windows XP support for Pro Tools™ TDM, RTAS, and AudioSuite systems"

[Riad]

Originally posted by leftcoastproduc
looks like they are only for Pro Tools systems though

taken from their site
"McDSP has announced full Windows XP support for Pro Tools™ TDM, RTAS, and AudioSuite systems"

Yes, their OS X and Windows XP plugs are for PT only... I was under the assumption that you were running PT on a PC.

[Kubilay]

For the purpose you stated, I'll pipe VI tracks through my Aurora Audio GTQ2mkIII, or an old Magnacord Tube pre from a (late 50s/early 60s?) tape machine. Synths or similar I'll often rerecord, through an amp, or sometimes a close-mic'ed vintage radio. That mic then goes into whichever pre seems most suitable. (Well, I have three, so it's not that many choices...)

That said, reamping or rerecording anything through the soundcard outputs and inputs will cost you a lot more than you'll gain. Get a new AD (minimum Lucid 2496, or something better and, surprise!, more expensive) and a new DA (Benchmark DAC1 or better.)

Until then, I suggest you try Valvetone and Hydratone from www.tritonedigital.com for this purpose. Cheap and work really well. (These are pluggos, I believe mac only. I forgot what your platform is.)

[Exmun]

Originally posted by leftcoastproduc

here's a look at my setup maybe this will help......

...
2x Delta 1010's
...

Mackie 1202 Vlz Pro
...

IMO, your problems are right there. The Delta card is not bad. For the price it's pretty much a decent card. But it's not great. High quality conversion makes a HUge difference in sound. Plus you often get a better clock.

If your Mackie is what you're using for a mic pre, then I'd say you need an upgrade in the preamp department. I have a Sebatron and it's a good unit. A bit colored, but not overly so like a UA pre.

Have you looked into something like the Apogee Mini Me? You get 2 clean channels, quality A/D, Digital connection to your computer, plus you don't have to ditch your Delta cards.

You may think that Digital is not warm, but in my experience, I became a lot happier with digital once I got better A/D's.... currently Lynx II cards.

[vaesion]

most importantly make sure ur monitors are set up at the perfect distance from u so u can here what ur doing accurately.make sure ur workin in the sweet spot of your triangle.....
once u got that right its all about ur eqs and mixing.
i use elemental audio eqs and waves linear eq here lately
sometimes ill slap antares tube on a a few sounds especially drums and bass.
good a/d can make ur stuff tighter and warmer.........i had a delta 44 now i have a rosetta 800.
I just remixed a song 2nite that was recorded with a delta 44 and a cheap akg c3000 mic with no mic pre and it sounds awesome........with what you have you are very capable of making good stuff to send to mastering....
i make house 2..........
check out applying the haas effect in ur mixing too
some may percieve that as warmth because it takes away that wall of sound and make ur song breath with space

[vaesion]

buy one distressor and track with it.......
u can live without stereo tracking because u can create stereo in ur computer
they warm stuff up for sure

Beautiful Confusion

www.hallucination.com
www.deep-productions.com

[leftcoastproduc]

ay guys I went ahead and picked up the Sebatron Vmp-2000e for $500 and my TC Electronics M2000......this unit is really good sounding I have only had it for the weekend but it has some really good tone so far I've used it on kicks,snares,bass,and some synth patches
everything is sooooo much fuller sounding and musical......I can't say I've used all kinds of pre's but this unit covers alot of ground whether it be soft and subtle to overdriven and saturated......you can daisy chain the two channels together and get a real wacked out sound which is insane!

[leftcoastproduc]

I am also looking at getting the Apogee Mini-Me in the future to have a nice converter/soft limiter......then maybe a Distressor.....depending how fast the pennies fall

[leftcoastproduc]

Originally posted by borau
1/ Better Guitars(get the real stuff)
2/ Better guitar amp! Stay fender.
3/Run some of your synths trough the new guitar amp
4/How is your speakers? And how does your room sound?
5/ Better mics. (maybe a highend dynamic like a Sennheiser 441, incredibly warm and smooth and nice on your guitar stuff aswell as competitive on voice. Not so much on acoustic instruments, so maybe a nice ribbon might do the trick, how bout a Beyer M160?
6/Better pres. Want warm? try a Chandler TG-2(for guitars) or even the UA2-610 as someone else suggested. Very warm, wich is nice. Very far from "transparent" , and they are pretty cheap these days.
Want it even a bit more colored after that? Run your 2-bus trough the TG-2, it DOES add a little bit of Abbey Road. But it can't help a Fernades or a Mackie.

thanks......

my guitars actually sound good for what I am doing....I don't really write guitar based tracks a ton.... I primarily use my Roland Midi guitar for playing synth solo's and bass leads....I use the guitars however for more of an effect nowadays heavy reverb/delay kind of dub style..... the Aslin Dane Es 335 copy sounds great however if you haven't played one......sounds better believe it or not than the '74 Gibson Es 335 and '52 Es-125 (different guitar) I once had and the Fernandes is an old Japanese make that is loaded with pickups that came from a friends Fender Clapton Sig

I do fully agree with you as far as getting a better amp though I had a Fender Blues Deville 212 but had to sell it cause I live in an apt. ......any recommendations as to what to look for running both guitars and synths through it under possibly under $500/used that isn't going to get me evicted? hahaha.......I contemplated on turning half my closet into an amp booth but how fun is it to track through headphones......I agree once I do get a better amp I am going to look into possibly a Senn 441 or something of the like......

As for the Sebatron VMP-2000e I just purchased it and it sounds great.... I wish I could compare it to other gear but my experience is lacking in that dept. all I know is that my "sound" is warmer and alot thicker....its worked wonders so far on my drums.....

this whole mastering thing is great to learn but has slowed up my creativeness/production a bit.....so I am going to have a few tracks mastered by an expert for a bit of piece of mind and perspective....

dfegad

[leftcoastproduc]

Originally posted by borau
I don't know what limit is on your SPL, but the smallest GREAT sounding amp i know of is Fender Deluxes, and they sound pretty good on low levels too.

Around here at least(europe) you could get one for around $500 (early 70's silverface) If you find one that is in good shape, you really have quite a serious amp going!

how about the Fender Hot Rod Series....there are a few of them locally both the Blues Jr. and Pro Jr. I played these some time ago with a guitar but never gave them a workout nor played either with a synth.....also is there a standard speaker size in recording bass synths 10" or 12" I would think the latter would be more preferable.....

[Elsteve9]

Originally posted by vaesion
most importantly make sure ur monitors are set up at the perfect distance from u so u can here what ur doing accurately.make sure ur workin in the sweet spot of your triangle.....
once u got that right its all about ur eqs and mixing.
i use elemental audio eqs and waves linear eq here lately
sometimes ill slap antares tube on a a few sounds especially drums and bass.
good a/d can make ur stuff tighter and warmer.........i had a delta 44 now i have a rosetta 800.
I just remixed a song 2nite that was recorded with a delta 44 and a cheap akg c3000 mic with no mic pre and it sounds awesome........with what you have you are very capable of making good stuff to send to mastering....
i make house 2..........
check out applying the haas effect in ur mixing too
some may percieve that as warmth because it takes away that wall of sound and make ur song breath with space

Excuse my ignorance please, but what is the Haas effect?


-Stephen

[GigIdea]

Originally posted by Kubilay


That said, reamping or rerecording anything through the soundcard outputs and inputs will cost you a lot more than you'll gain. Get a new AD (minimum Lucid 2496, or something better and, surprise!, more expensive) and a new DA (Benchmark DAC1 or better.)

Until then, I suggest you try Valvetone and Hydratone from www.tritonedigital.com for this purpose. Cheap and work really well. (These are pluggos, I believe mac only. I forgot what your platform is.)

What he said.

You've got some pretty good equipment in your lineup. Your converters are probably a weak spot, although Delta 1010's aren't the worst in the world either.

It seems to me you ought to be able to find some combination of software and hardware in your studio as it is now that will give you what you want. But if you don't want to fork out the cash for new converters, the pluggo idea suggested above may help.
THEY DO COME IN PC FLAVOR NOW!! Just recently came out with a vst version. I love their stuff.

Converters and/or better audio interfaces (that have better converters in them) worth checking out, in my opinion:

1. Lynx Studio Technologies--sound amazing and can be very inexpensive; they sell audio interfaces and converter boxes too; you can get their quality for less than a grand...keep your Delta for midi.

2. Apogee: a used Mini Me might be right up your alley. I haven't heard one of these but i've heard good things about them. Mercenary Audio, among other dealers, sells them and the owner likes them quite a bit apparently.

3. Lavry: Your going up in price here but these are definitely worthy of mention. Their Blue series would be the way to go.

4. Benchmark: already mentioned. Maybe the best out there. The DAC1 is $975. It is a single user piece like the MiniMe. Benchmark will be releasing an AD box sometime this year, I guess, which will complement the DAC1.

Best of luck to you.

[vaesion]

the warmest music comes from using the warmest percussion and keyboards too.
i just finished a hiphop album.........the warmest/best song on the cds is the one that had warm tones, drums, keys, and bass


a buddy of mine use to say you cant turn chicken shit into chicken salad