Elastic Time vs Warping = Upgrading to Protools ?

[flx]

I'm basically a Logic user, and love it, but have recently been getting into the warping function in Ableton. This has now become something that I use the whole time, but the sound quality of Ableton against Logic just doesn't compare.
I've been looking around to see if there are other programs I could use to do the Warping (I mainly use this for quantizing old records). Logic doesn't really have anything, I use Apple Loops a bit, but it's not really as good when looking at a whole track (as opposed to just working on loops). I've been reading up on Pro Tools and the Elastic Time function, and it looks like it could do the job.
So now I'm considering making the big step from Logic and MOTU over to Digidesign. I don't need loads of inputs and outputs, but do want to get the best sound quality/reliability available.

What do you lot suggest?

Is Pro Tools the way to go?
And if so what kind of package should I look at getting that will do the job best.

Thanks a lot for any advice.

[redroom]

Cubase can warp audio so there is another choice

[Tony Shepperd]

If you wanted to, you could keep Logic and buy a Digidesign box.
Even something as simple as the M Box Micro would be really useful.

That way (for now at least) you could continue your work in Logic and learn the ways of Elastic Audio in PT.

[flx]

Thanks for your replies.

Can you use the Cubase warping on whole tracks?
I just had a quick look at a youtube tutorial but it was dealing with loops, and you had to tell Cubase how long the loop was in bars.
I can see this being a bit of a pain when dealing with a long track (not sure if there is the same problem with Elastic Time aswell though).

If I go down the Protools path, are all the Digidesign/MBox interfaces the same sound quality?

Cheers

[larrygates]

Scratch ALL OF THOSE SuGGESTIONS.

I presume you're on a Mac since you're using the terrible Logic 8!!!

With that being said, go download Reaper, for FREE!!!

It has Better algos than all the programs mentioned above. Or it has the EXACT same algos. It has Elastique 1 & 2, Sound Touch, & Dirac. I can time stretch Real Time just like Pro-Tools has been boasting about for about 2 years now. For FREE. And with zero extra hardware or dongles, or anything.

Download Reaper, and you can time stretch until the cows come home. You also get vari-speed now.

It follows tempo, and I think Reaper can be Rewired into Logic. That I can't remember. But you're covered.

Bury the rest of the options, as they cost too much money, and they take a LONG time to open the actual app.

Reaper, click icon 2 sec later app is open, ready for you to apply Elastique 2 to your time stretch needs. REALTIME.!!!

[redroom]

Originally Posted by flx

Thanks for your replies.

Can you use the Cubase warping on whole tracks?
I just had a quick look at a youtube tutorial but it was dealing with loops, and you had to tell Cubase how long the loop was in bars.
I can see this being a bit of a pain when dealing with a long track (not sure if there is the same problem with Elastic Time aswell though).

If I go down the Protools path, are all the Digidesign/MBox interfaces the same sound quality?

Cheers

Cubase can warp whole tracks however only Protools can warp multiple tracks together and keep their phase relationship intact ie Drums.What I love about Cubase is the Media bay lets me audition my sounds in sync like abelton live.I find warping much easier in Cuabase than abelton and when Im ready I can freeze my warping with a Higher quality timestreych algo.

[muziksculp]

I wouldn't totally discount the possibility of APPLE adding Elastic/Warping Audio type feature in a future update of LP8. I think it's just a matter of time.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by redroom

Cubase can warp whole tracks however only Protools can warp multiple tracks together and keep their phase relationship intact ie Drums.What I love about Cubase is the Media bay lets me audition my sounds in sync like abelton live.I find warping much easier in Cuabase than abelton and when Im ready I can freeze my warping with a Higher quality timestreych algo.

Pro Tools workspace will let you audition soundfiles in time as well.

TH

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by larrygates

Scratch ALL OF THOSE SuGGESTIONS.

I presume you're on a Mac since you're using the terrible Logic 8!!!

With that being said, go download Reaper, for FREE!!!

It has Better algos than all the programs mentioned above. Or it has the EXACT same algos. It has Elastique 1 & 2, Sound Touch, & Dirac. I can time stretch Real Time just like Pro-Tools has been boasting about for about 2 years now. For FREE. And with zero extra hardware or dongles, or anything.

Download Reaper, and you can time stretch until the cows come home. You also get vari-speed now.

It follows tempo, and I think Reaper can be Rewired into Logic. That I can't remember. But you're covered.

Bury the rest of the options, as they cost too much money, and they take a LONG time to open the actual app.

Reaper, click icon 2 sec later app is open, ready for you to apply Elastique 2 to your time stretch needs. REALTIME.!!!

You know I wouldn't care personally if Reaper served coffee while you waited, that is one bad looking program

TH

[muziksculp]

I have never used "Live", but I was wondering, is the sound quality between "LP8" and "Live" that noticeable, I mean is "Live"'s sound quality that bad when warping audio ?

Are you referring to the latest version "Live 7", my impression was that Live 7 is much better sounding than previous versions of Live.

I would be interested in knowing more about this important detail, especially since Ableton's main focus was to improve the sound quality of "Live 7" over the previous versions of Live's audio engine.

[computa]

Originally Posted by flx

What do you lot suggest?

Is Pro Tools the way to go?
And if so what kind of package should I look at getting that will do the job best.

Thanks a lot for any advice.

Since Elastic Audio/Time was put into PT I left Live alone> Elastic does a whole alot more than just putting samples on beat and does it all in the context of the session. PT 8.0 is supposed to add to "elastic" with "melodyne type" feature.

grab a cheap mbox mini usb thing. my homies who use logic do that to use elastic audio/time.

[A101]

Originally Posted by computa

Since Elastic Audio/Time was put into PT I left Live alone> Elastic does a whole alot more than just putting samples on beat and does it all in the context of the session. PT 8.0 is supposed to add to "elastic" with "melodyne type" feature.

Hey computa,
I am having hard time warping whole songs (especially older recordings) with PT Elastic Audio...
I find it faster and easier to do it in Live's Warp mode... perhaps I need to spend more time learning EA in depth
Can you share some tips as to how you do it?


flx,
Have you tried setting Live's "Default Warp Mode" preferences to "Compex" (it is higher resolution).

[computa]

Originally Posted by A101

Hey computa, I am having hard time warping whole songs (especially older recordings) with PT Elastic Audio...
Can you share some tips as to how you do it?

It is so much faster and easier in Live's Warp mode and the audio quality is much better when the Default Warp Mode (in preferences) is set to Complex mode.

if it works for u then keep doing it that way w Live but...

YouTube - ProTools Elastic Audio (Elastic Time): Changing Song Tempo

[A101]

Originally Posted by computa

if it works for u then keep doing it that way w Live but...
YouTube - ProTools Elastic Audio (Elastic Time): Changing Song Tempo

You didn't understand my question...
I know and use Elastic Audio on sessions that have already been tracked in PT and it is a lifesaver...
But my question is finding the tempo and warping old stereo recordings (from records, cassette tapes and cds) to sync-up for remix purposes.
Some of these older recordings don't have recognizable transients to automatically warp and this is where Live's intuitive Warping feature comes in handy.
For some reason I can't get PT Elastic Audio to work in the same fashion

[sardi]

Originally Posted by A101

You didn't understand my question...
I know and use Elastic Audio on sessions that have already been tracked in PT and it is a lifesaver...
But my question is finding the tempo and warping old stereo recordings (from records, cassette tapes and cds) to sync-up for remix purposes.
Some of these older recordings don't have recognizable transients to automatically warp and this is where Live's intuitive Warping feature comes in handy.
For some reason I can't get PT Elastic Audio to work in the same fashion

Switch to analysis mode, delete the warp markers, then warp the track. I find this helps a lot.

Also, you can manually add your own analysis markers.

[larrygates]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

You know I wouldn't care personally if Reaper served coffee while you waited, that is one bad looking program

TH

EVERYoNe says that. Literally.

The routing in Reaper alone is quite ahead of all standard DAW's.

But, I suppose a GUI is very important in making "MUSIC?"

Or for that matter any form of any end product.

I think GUI's / graphics are for games?

[Dysanfel]

Don't underestimate Ableton Live.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by larrygates

EVERYoNe says that. Literally.

The routing in Reaper alone is quite ahead of all standard DAW's.

But, I suppose a GUI is very important in making "MUSIC?"

When you spend 7-10 hours a day with it? Are you kidding?

TH

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by muziksculp

I mean is "Live"'s sound quality that bad when warping audio ?

It horrible if you spend 30 seconds with the program and don't know what your doing. There are a few parameters that have to be tweaked. But once you learn it sounds incredible.

The sound engine is 64-bit.

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

When you spend 7-10 hours a day with it? Are you kidding?

TH

I agree.
When you are staring at the screen 12-14 hours a day, a ugly GUI is not only annoying, it can become the black hole of time trying to find things.

[A101]

Originally Posted by sardi

Switch to analysis mode, delete the warp markers, then warp the track. I find this helps a lot.
Also, you can manually add your own analysis markers.

Yes, I'm aware of that but you can't do it on the run while the track is looping in Digi's Elastic Audio.

In Live this can be done without ever stopping the audio and in real time while the warp points are looping for fine adjustment.

Just the other day I was given a 5 minute rock song which was recorded live in the late 70's.
I copied the song into Live, figured out the BPM, put it to Warp Loop mode and the whole song was Warped within about 15 minutes with 62 warp points... and without ever stopping the song.

I don't have any use for Live other than this very feature and would be really happy if Digi incorporates it into their EA capabilities.

[sardi]

Originally Posted by A101

Yes, I'm aware of that but you can't do it on the run while the track is looping in Digi's Elastic Audio.

In Live this can be done without ever stopping the audio and in real time while the warp points are looping for fine adjustment.

Yeah you can actually.

This is not the way I personally work, but I know you can do it. In fact, I just tried it then for confirmation. I was playing a 40 second loop, deleting analysis markers, adding warp points & stretching/shrinking sections within the warp points all in real-time.

[shanabit]

FYI fellas,

REAPER is FULLY SKINABLE!!!!

No i dont use the app but you should know that its possible

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by shanabit

FYI fellas,

REAPER is FULLY SKINABLE!!!!

No i dont use the app but you should know that its possible

A thousand lashes for me then. That looks MUCH better

TH

[manning1]

oceantracks.
with great respect you can make reaper look the way you want.
there are oodles of amazeing themes ive seen reaper users make.
very pretty stuff.
shanabit is totally correct.
a tiny example..dont like the fader button...
make your own. or use one from another theme.
theres a whole theme section in the reaper forums.

[shanabit]

OCEANTRACKS,

A thousand lashes save just ONE for you LOL. MANY skins available for it!!

Side note, I use Protools LE 7.4 and Cubase 4.1.3 here. I keep tabs on REAPER as it progresses. Protools elastic audio WIPES up Cubases Warp function. As was mentioned, Cubase cannot do mutliple tracks at once like Protools does.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by shanabit

OCEANTRACKS,

A thousand lashes save just ONE for you LOL. MANY skins available for it!!

Side note, I use Protools LE 7.4 and Cubase 4.1.3 here. I keep tabs on REAPER as it progresses. Protools elastic audio WIPES up Cubases Warp function. As was mentioned, Cubase cannot do mutliple tracks at once like Protools does.

Shanabit...what is the dark skin called in the example you uploaded? Pretty cool....I downloaded a couple of skins tonight and it's much better now. I'm trying to find my way around a little bit on it.

Is there a way to get that Master fader in the mixer over on the RIGHT instead of the left ?


Thanks
Tom

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

Shanabit...what is the dark skin called in the example you uploaded? Pretty cool....I downloaded a couple of skins tonight and it's much better now. I'm trying to find my way around a little bit on it.

Is there a way to get that Master fader in the mixer over on the RIGHT instead of the left ?


Thanks
Tom

1. Dark skin is called Easy On the Eyes 1.7

2. Right clik on the Master Fader and select
Show Master Controls on Right

Also, you can select View from the top menu and select Show Docker
Now Right clik on the Master fader area and select Dock Mixer in Docker

this will KEEP the mixer showing on your screen if you want all the time at the bottom. If you dont want that just undock it and just VIEW MIXER from the top menu and you can size and place the mixer anywhere you want

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by shanabit

1. Dark skin is called Easy On the Eyes 1.7

2. Right clik on the Master Fader and select
Show Master Controls on Right

Also, you can select View from the top menu and select Show Docker
Now Right clik on the Master fader area and select Dock Mixer in Docker

this will KEEP the mixer showing on your screen if you want all the time at the bottom. If you dont want that just undock it and just VIEW MIXER from the top menu and you can size and place the mixer anywhere you want

Cool.

Dumb question. I am running one of the demo files that come with it (Bradsucks). It's at 120 BPM. For kicks I typed in 130, and 110, and it's doing a whole Elastic Time thing. Is this doing what PT is doing? In other words, same thing as Elastic Time? If I changed the tempo of the piece, is there something one we need to do to render the audio permanently to the new tempo?

This is actually pretty interesting, although a bit obtuse compared to what's out there. A nice start though.

TH

[shanabit]

Your beyond me already bro LOL. Check at Cockos Incorporated | News in the forum.
those guys are pretty cool there. to answer your question, yes its timestretching in REALTIME