Elastic Time vs Warping = Upgrading to Protools ?

[manning1]

oceantracks .
make sure you get the manual at cockos.
theres a whole bunch of stuff that would take a long time to type out.
in particular right clik over everything. over a waveform, over the tcp on the left hand side , over the record button, over the mixerr...right clik is your friend.
also note the various settings in file>>>render.
and in project settings.
not only can you make your own themes but you can also make your own shortcuts,
and macros etc. ie..stringing various keyboard actions together.
also notice the pdc, integration with external fx hardware n a ton of other stuff.
also note reaper will tell you /give you clues if a plug in is a resource hog.
note the resource read outs /useage against each trak.

also note the glue feature as well as per item fx.
theres tons of subtle features youll miss that other daws dont have if you
just take an overall 5 minute look.
once you dig in youll start to go ...my goodness..like i did originally.

also for gods sake play around with reaxcomp...really dig into this n reafir in the plug ins...
where you can literally build any old eq any old way you want.
for example set loads of eq points in reafir etc.
DIG IN ...cos youll be rewarded with patience mate.

just dig in like i did originally when i fell in love...lol..., be open minded, and for gods sake note the 100 plus fx included in reaper. theres just too much mojo in those fx to go into.
if your smart youll soon realise the reaper fx alone are gonna save you a bundle.
then check out stillwellaudio.com...more goodies.

[larrygates]

I tried to tell you Ocean. It's been doing this for A LONG time. It also has vari-speed. Like PT HD with the digi sync box.

There is a way to print the actual elastique time stretch, look up render stem mute original, or the actual bounce to disk option, which can do EVERY track for you as a consolidated WAV or any file format you want, which is What you're after right?

Also, Elastique, Plugins, Skins, that's just a spec of the good shit! Reaper can do. It's my first mix DAW, my last production DAW. ROUTING!!!

actually I'm going back to HW music making anyway.

It's too much stuff to name in Reaper, and it's Hard to find it all quickly, I don't use all the key commands it has, I only use like 10 or so. But please look at the manual, it'll tell you all about the Routing and everything. The bouncing is great, as is Record Output of the track. I think it even does, slice audio, drag as completely new audio file. Yes in PT ctrl-option-3 is faster, but there you go.

Originally Posted by oceantracks

Cool.

Dumb question. I am running one of the demo files that come with it (Bradsucks). It's at 120 BPM. For kicks I typed in 130, and 110, and it's doing a whole Elastic Time thing. Is this doing what PT is doing? In other words, same thing as Elastic Time? If I changed the tempo of the piece, is there something one we need to do to render the audio permanently to the new tempo?

This is actually pretty interesting, although a bit obtuse compared to what's out there. A nice start though.

TH

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by larrygates

I tried to tell you Ocean. It's been doing this for A LONG time. It also has vari-speed. Like PT HD with the digi sync box.

There is a way to print the actual elastique time stretch, look up render stem mute original, or the actual bounce to disk option, which can do EVERY track for you as a consolidated WAV or any file format you want, which is What you're after right?

Also, Elastique, Plugins, Skins, that's just a spec of the good shit! Reaper can do. It's my first mix DAW, my last production DAW. ROUTING!!!

actually I'm going back to HW music making anyway.

It's too much stuff to name in Reaper, and it's Hard to find it all quickly, I don't use all the key commands it has, I only use like 10 or so. But please look at the manual, it'll tell you all about the Routing and everything. The bouncing is great, as is Record Output of the track. I think it even does, slice audio, drag as completely new audio file. Yes in PT ctrl-option-3 is faster, but there you go.

Thanks all, yes been reading the manual. It's almost like picking up Logic for the first time. No, it's harder

But it does look pretty powerful. Zippy too. Will continue to play with it.

What I don't get is, PT has to analyze audio files before doing any Elastic stuff on them. You have to tell PT to do this by turning the Elastic thing on each track, but apparently this program is doing this analysis all the time or something without being told? Interesting....

Yes still have a lot to dig into, which now that I have discovered SKINS I can comfortably do

Thanks again
Tom

[larrygates]

To me it looks like PT, kind of "threw" it into their program, as all of the other DAW's have been doing it for a LONG time. Well not LONG but you get the picture. PT is using either the same ElastiQ algo, or something EXTREMELY close.

Now about Reaper, I think if you hit ALT-Return, it'll bring you into the project setup. This is where you tell Reaper how to GLOBALLY deal with Time Comp / EXP and which of the 100 + algos to use. There's Elastiq 1 & 2 and others, that are better than elastiQ, but no where near as practical.

You can turn it completely off, Time Only, or Just Beat Position, or on all the time.

In addition you can hit F2 on a audio file in question, and choose any Algo you want for comp / exp / as well as pitch shift, and all types of other stuff. It's like Ableton / PT / Cubase at the same time. If you find out how to render the time stretch, which I know this is at the Reaper forum, let me know.

There's also a trick to QUICKLY find the tempo of any loop. In Reaper I mean.

Yes this is Harder than Logic, since Logic isn't as "flexible." BUT, you will not get no where near the Production value that you'll get from Logic.

Also, I think you're using the Mac version of Reaper. It SUCKS. Nothing like the PC version. It's close, it just isn't as Robust.

Originally Posted by oceantracks

Thanks all, yes been reading the manual. It's almost like picking up Logic for the first time. No, it's harder

But it does look pretty powerful. Zippy too. Will continue to play with it.

What I don't get is, PT has to analyze audio files before doing any Elastic stuff on them. You have to tell PT to do this by turning the Elastic thing on each track, but apparently this program is doing this analysis all the time or something without being told? Interesting....

Yes still have a lot to dig into, which now that I have discovered SKINS I can comfortably do

Thanks again
Tom

[redroom]

I pretty sure the Mac Beta does not have any timestretching yet

[ewegogetemtiger]

1. reap for mac is just a beta so saying it 'sucks' is a bit wide of the mark; Justin and co. have done an amazing job in a very short amount of time

2. reap is not 'free'

[larrygates]

It does suck, chill out with the semantics battle.

You just want me to say it's buggy right now cause they're in BETA, excuse me ALPHA.

Cmon, you're not a woman are you?

Originally Posted by ewegogetemtiger

1. reap for mac is just a beta so saying it 'sucks' is a bit wide of the mark; Justin and co. have done an amazing job in a very short amount of time

2. reap is not 'free'

It does have all the time stretch Algos.

Originally Posted by redroom

I pretty sure the Mac Beta does not have any timestretching yet

[ewegogetemtiger]

Lighten up, Larry
Maybe try adopting a new persona for this forum. For example, at GS you could be "Laid Back Larry" and reserve "Republitard Larry" for some other forums

[redroom]

Originally Posted by larrygates

It does suck, chill out with the semantics battle.

You just want me to say it's buggy right now cause they're in BETA, excuse me ALPHA.

Cmon, you're not a woman are you?



It does have all the time stretch Algos.

Yes your right Ive just found the timestretching algos

[manning1]

just remember the mac version reap is still being worked on.
thus...depending on a users needs, the mac version might not meet all a persons needs.
tho from my reading of the mac threads , more than a few folks seem to be
getting songs done in the mac version. depends what one needs in features.

i'm on the pc version. and frankly it was doing everything i need many versions ago.
from here on for me, any new features are just icing on the cake for me.
theres one feature i would like to see in reaper, but no daw software on the market does it
anyway. and i cant believe daw developers have missed it.

[jmarkham]

Originally Posted by larrygates

Scratch ALL OF THOSE SuGGESTIONS.

I presume you're on a Mac since you're using the terrible Logic 8!!!

With that being said, go download Reaper, for FREE!!!

It has Better algos than all the programs mentioned above. Or it has the EXACT same algos. It has Elastique 1 & 2, Sound Touch, & Dirac. I can time stretch Real Time just like Pro-Tools has been boasting about for about 2 years now. For FREE. And with zero extra hardware or dongles, or anything.

Download Reaper, and you can time stretch until the cows come home. You also get vari-speed now.

It follows tempo, and I think Reaper can be Rewired into Logic. That I can't remember. But you're covered.

Bury the rest of the options, as they cost too much money, and they take a LONG time to open the actual app.

Reaper, click icon 2 sec later app is open, ready for you to apply Elastique 2 to your time stretch needs. REALTIME.!!!

You should watch the videos on Digidesign.com. I think you'll see that Elastic
Audio has significantly more functionality than Elastique.

jeff

[larrygates]

Such as what. And in addition / what functions would one need to truthfully use to turn out a polished piece of work?

All I've seen is the transient detection algo / and chords algo. Or whatever / I have PT 7.x and don't use it, so I don't know.

But for the most part, it locks tempo, works with any tempo you choose, and allows you to drag audio like it's midi?

And what is it that can't be done from what I just named?

Ummm . . .

Whatever.

Ah ha, I stand some what corrected. Quantize is good, that's useful for looped sounds. Other than that, it just looks like a company with a big R&D dept, as opposed to a company that has about 4 people working on the program total.

ummmm . . .

again, whatever.

After Really watching. I think I'm going to switch back to PT for a while. I'd have to give up all that Great routing that I'm used to in Reaper. And the export features. But this Elastiq shit! is great on PT. It's just normal in Reaper.

Thanks for calling me out, and making me sit down and give up the Anti-Digi attitude.

Originally Posted by jmarkham

You should watch the videos on Digidesign.com. I think you'll see that Elastic
Audio has significantly more functionality than Elastique.

jeff

[Fuzzhead]

Originally Posted by larrygates

If you find out how to render the time stretch, which I know this is at the Reaper forum, let me know.

To render time stretching to an item, just 'render as new take', that'll apply the time-stretching to a new file.

To render a whole selected track use file-render-render stems (selected tracks)..., or for a whole mix, file-render-render master mix (or use this with the track soloed for a stem through the master buss.)

[gregohb]

you know that logic has a warp feature - sorta. you analyze audio and alter the tempo so that downbeat transients are lined up with barlines. Then you can go into the tempo editor and remove the tempo changes and voila - you have a prerecorded song now following a steady tempo.

[larrygates]

Alright, I suppose apply fx to take will work to.

About render individual tracks, you can just highlight the tracks in question, right click, render selected items and mute original tracks.

That's probably the fastest one to do, with the least amount of work.

Originally Posted by Fuzzhead

To render time stretching to an item, just 'render as new take', that'll apply the time-stretching to a new file.

To render a whole selected track use file-render-render stems (selected tracks)..., or for a whole mix, file-render-render master mix (or use this with the track soloed for a stem through the master buss.)

[AnonJack]

PT's time stretching is amazing...anyone who says otherwise hasn't taken the time to mess with it. Go check out a demo in your local area, or the videos do it some justice as well.

That being said, I think I'd go with Ableton. Ableton has better MIDI functionality than PT, lets you use VST which opens up your program aresenal, and has very innovative sequencing methods vs PT's traditional linear concept. If you're an ITB music guy, then Live...but if it's more just for mixing, editing, automation, etc, do PT.

Ableton Live is probably the best option out there for people getting into a NEW DAW imo...I'm a PT guy, but when I get the time...I'm going to be giving Live a serious look.

[larrygates]

Another huge bonus for Live. Not sure about PT LE, but M-Powered has no delay compensation if you use outboard inserts. Bad deal on that one.

Live does, and has a nice feature with the I/O plugin.

Not sure why PT M-Powered even has inserts if they're not compensated. I have to do the math to get it right.

And yes the time stretch is great, with the quantize, the ease of use, the integration. It doesn't sound as good as Elastiq 2 to me though, but that's very small and doesn't matter.

It's a little finicky on my M-Powered box. But it can get the job done, if I ever need it to.

I'll be staying on the Live side of things (Ableton) and the Reaper side.

Then I'll get that Euphonix M Control Artist control surface when it's PC compatible.

Believe it or not, I switched from MAC to PC!

Originally Posted by AnonJack

PT's time stretching is amazing...anyone who says otherwise hasn't taken the time to mess with it. Go check out a demo in your local area, or the videos do it some justice as well.

That being said, I think I'd go with Ableton. Ableton has better MIDI functionality than PT, lets you use VST which opens up your program aresenal, and has very innovative sequencing methods vs PT's traditional linear concept. If you're an ITB music guy, then Live...but if it's more just for mixing, editing, automation, etc, do PT.

Ableton Live is probably the best option out there for people getting into a NEW DAW imo...I'm a PT guy, but when I get the time...I'm going to be giving Live a serious look.

[flx]

Originally Posted by gregohb

you know that logic has a warp feature - sorta. you analyze audio and alter the tempo so that downbeat transients are lined up with barlines. Then you can go into the tempo editor and remove the tempo changes and voila - you have a prerecorded song now following a steady tempo.

This sounds really interesting, I've had a look around in Logic, but can't work out how to do this. Is it in the factory quantize engine? I can't say I've ever used it and found it a bit confusing.
I'm doing a remix of an old disco record at the moment and am using Ableton as a slave to get the parts in time and doing midi overdubs in logic.
I'd rather do it all in Logic, but thought I had to use Apple Loops, which is O.K., but I'd rather not have to cut the original into loops.

Can you explain the process you described a bit more, and tell me where in Logic to go to access these functions.

Thanks!