Beter sound: go to NUENDO or get a preamp?

Durv · 27th January 2005

I'm a rookie...i know it.
Currently, i have been using SONAR 4.0+UAD-1...its decent for what it is.
But i have heard projects done in NUENDO. Am i crazy? or does it sound better/bigger?
My friend said its NOT Nuendo or WAVES plugins, but rather the preamps. I use a MOTU HD192, and Allen&Heathe. Nothing fancy. To get a better sound....what would you suggest? i get NUENDO 3.0? or a Vintech x73i or other high end pre?
i know its a strange question, any suggestion guys?
The Nuendo forum is somewhat short with me.
Durv

De chromium cob · 27th January 2005

FWIW- I love Nuendo and hate Sonar- N3 is on of Steinbergs best releases yet! That being said, I'd suggest better pres and better mics (although you didnt mention what you have). The $2500 for Nuendo would go along way towards something like a Great River, Aurora Audio, John Hardy, API, ect....

fifthcircle · 27th January 2005

Get Samplitude 8 and a set of pres. Since you own Sonar, you can probably get in to Version 8 for about $700. Then use the last $1800 on preamps or preamps and mics and you'll have a pretty massive upgrade on the sound of your rig.

--Ben

rynugz007 · 27th January 2005

I can't imagine the audio engine in nuendo is that much better than sonar. I'm sure there is a difference but i'm guessing any hardware upgrade (mics, conversion, monitors, pres,outboard) would make a more substantial difference.

The software you use is a pretty personal and subjective thing. If you already put in the time to learn sonar and are comfortable and content with it then i wouldnt bother upgrading. You want something that you can work fast and effortless on that meets all your needs. If you find that sonar is not for you then try a few other programs out before you dump 2500 on nuendo. Remember, cubase sx has the same audio engine as nuendo and pretty much ALL the same features minus the video post production stuff. I have cubase sx2 and I have never been able to work as efficient as i do now.

Durv · 28th January 2005

Thanks guys. So what would be a great preamp for micing guitars???
...in the veins of heavy/saturated sounds similiar to a lot of the "loud&fast" school?
rock/metal/ even punk stuff.
I'm still not sure about what to do...i know SONAR is decent, but there is a "flatness" to the sound that i have started to despise. Nuendo projects and PTHD mixdowns sound so much "larger" .
Even when the recorded TONES are horrible. the panning, the spread?
I'll relearn how to work on a new platfrom. Growth is important to me anyway.
....anyone know some definite insights?
thanks again
Durv

Leo Goler · 28th January 2005

Do you really need Nuendo extra capabilities? I suspect that you don't. Cubase or Samplitude, then. Cubase if you need better automation and MIDI, score and such things and Samplitude if you don't need. But they (32bit-float engines mentioned) all actually sound and truncate in the same way, including Sonar (not talking of plugs). It's they way you work that matters. I'd say stay with Sonar if it does the job and look for improvments in microphones then pres and AD/DA's.

Durv · 28th January 2005

i completely forgot to mention why i think Nuendo is important. Not too long ago, i was rendering with the cabridge EQ in my UAD-1, and i was getting clicks and pops galore!! ( i had to turn of Hyper Threading) I called tech support, and they said that the VST version is more stable.
Cakewalk only has a VST wrapper. I think Nuendo might have better support, and some of the features such as external effects delay compensation? Sonar also used to crash on me about 3-5 times a day. literally disappear from my screen! i wanted to put my fist through the machine at that point. I would like to go to professional grade software. I dont know if actualy albums are made on SONAR. Video is something i definitely am going to get into.
anyone know? And Great River mic pre? 1272? or VTB-1?
thanks!!
Durv

Ron53 · 29th January 2005

Totally the preamp... remember that the software only effects (slightly) the play back.

Ron

Hiwatt · 30th January 2005

Go with SX3 and a Great River MP-1NV or a Chandler TG-2 if you have the $$$

blackcom · 30th January 2005

It's not the software...it's the preamp....

Make shure to check out API preamps if you're into modern rock music, lot's of "energy" in the top....

Durv · 1st February 2005

API? could you recommend a model?
i'd like a stereo pre.
i checked out some of them online. it looks way beyond my skills!
Durv

natpub · 1st February 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Durv
API? could you recommend a model?
i'd like a stereo pre.
i checked out some of them online. it looks way beyond my skills!
Durv

http://www.brentaverill.com/312a/

Durv · 1st February 2005

what do you guys think of the UA 2108?
slightly more affordable for me.
any thoughts?
thanks
Durv

natpub · 1st February 2005

what mics are you using, what sources are you recording, what kind of music, etc.

all the usual questions.

from where it seems like you are now, i would really spend TIME before money

spend time experimenting with 1 track and 1 mic, moving the mic around the room

check for noise floor and sonic solidity, check out how much noise your room has, your computer is making noise too probly, it all adds up

weird and bad sounding peaks and valleys in the room will make any gear sound bad

you can have the best gear in the world, but if room acoustics and sources are not up to snuff, then all you end up with is a really great recording of a bad room/source

if your room &/or sources sound bad, no amount of money or gear will fix it

working to get simple, solid, clean tracks is the first thing to look at

check out ethan winner and john sayers sites, and search around here for threads on rooms, acoustics, home recording, etc.

changing software is probably the last thing you need to look at at this point, otherwise you are gonna end up working at this thing backwards and spend a bunch of money unnecessarily

that kinda regret can be painful to the wallet :-)

if you get all the sorted out, and you are confident in your mics, then move to preamps--if $1500+ is too much for a stereo unit, you might check out this:

http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm

about $1200 for 2 channels of assembled 312-type, and you can add the other types later for some nice flavors, etc.

BigAl · 1st February 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Durv

My friend said its NOT Nuendo or WAVES plugins, but rather the preamps.

I know mic pres make a world of a difference for sure. You will have to pay big $$$$ for sure, but it will leave a phat smile on your face indeed. Run all of your keyboards and electronics stuff into some great mic pres also and you'll be in heaven.

--Al

bunnerabb · 1st February 2005

.wavs is .wavs. How you get them there... muy importanté.

Durv · 1st February 2005

the DAW is in another room. for tracking the walls are double up. 12x12x14 room. Nothing fancy though.
I am really gonna try and get the UA-2108
then try to get a x73i and then a Vipre.
mics: 58, 58Beta, Sm7,AKG 3035,RodeNTK. D2,D6 and F series crap. and the usual 57's.
I still want to get NUENDO, maybe next month or in a couple weeks. SONAR just crashes...literally dissapears from in front of me! I dont use ANY MIDI...
What strikes me as interesting is that i cant think of one album done on SONAR, i know there are albums done on NUENDO.
Thanks guys!
Durv

Durv · 1st February 2005

i want that API BrentAvrill...wow! it looks SO simple! so easy. And i want to get a distressor too one day.
damn..i think i'm turning into a slut!
Durv

natpub · 2nd February 2005

Room sounds like a decent space (though squares can be kinda weird), have you tested it out with a RTA?

Looks like you might use one or two more mics, minimum.

If 1 channel would do ya, you can NOT go wrong with the Vipre, serious.

and yeah, the BA stuff looks really nice--I think James Lugo uses thier API modules, I forget...maybe he will chime in....I haven't heard them myself, but they have a pretty good rep.

as far as "...so simple, so easy..." goes, well, there is always...:

http://www.mercenary.com/gmltwochanmi.html

cheers

Durv · 2nd February 2005

i was SO close to buying a VIPRE....but after talking it over. the seller said perhaps another preamp thats high end and 2 channels, would help things more. he said the VIPRE would make my other tracks sound like shit!! and stick out real bad!
i WILL have a vipre one day!
Durv

BigAl · 2nd February 2005

If you are on a budget, you might want to check out this 8 channel API 8200a.....> http://store.yahoo.com/mercenary-audio/api82limi.html

Durv · 2nd February 2005

is that 8 channel API somewhat lower status than the other $1k per channel ones?
I think there is a 2 channel API rack that i would have to get modules for thats around $1400-$1500? i JUST purchased the 2108...waiting on it now. My next jump is going to have to be stabilizing my DAW. SONAR is ok....but there is definitely a flatness to it. Dont ask me why....but NUENDO 3.0 is back ordered like crazy!!
goodtimes!!
thanks guys
Durv

27th January 2005	#1
Durv Gear addict Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore MD Posts: 400 Thread Starter	Beter sound: go to NUENDO or get a preamp? I'm a rookie...i know it. Currently, i have been using SONAR 4.0+UAD-1...its decent for what it is. But i have heard projects done in NUENDO. Am i crazy? or does it sound better/bigger? My friend said its NOT Nuendo or WAVES plugins, but rather the preamps. I use a MOTU HD192, and Allen&Heathe. Nothing fancy. To get a better sound....what would you suggest? i get NUENDO 3.0? or a Vintech x73i or other high end pre? i know its a strange question, any suggestion guys? The Nuendo forum is somewhat short with me. Durv

27th January 2005	#2
De chromium cob Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2003 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,659	FWIW- I love Nuendo and hate Sonar- N3 is on of Steinbergs best releases yet! That being said, I'd suggest better pres and better mics (although you didnt mention what you have). The $2500 for Nuendo would go along way towards something like a Great River, Aurora Audio, John Hardy, API, ect.... __________________ "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Tolstoy

27th January 2005	#3
fifthcircle Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,323	Get Samplitude 8 and a set of pres. Since you own Sonar, you can probably get in to Version 8 for about $700. Then use the last $1800 on preamps or preamps and mics and you'll have a pretty massive upgrade on the sound of your rig. --Ben __________________ Benjamin Maas Fifth Circle Audio Long Beach, CA http://www.fifthcircle.com

1st February 2005	#14
natpub More cowbell! Joined: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,171 2 Reviews written	what mics are you using, what sources are you recording, what kind of music, etc. all the usual questions. from where it seems like you are now, i would really spend TIME before money spend time experimenting with 1 track and 1 mic, moving the mic around the room check for noise floor and sonic solidity, check out how much noise your room has, your computer is making noise too probly, it all adds up weird and bad sounding peaks and valleys in the room will make any gear sound bad you can have the best gear in the world, but if room acoustics and sources are not up to snuff, then all you end up with is a really great recording of a bad room/source if your room &/or sources sound bad, no amount of money or gear will fix it working to get simple, solid, clean tracks is the first thing to look at check out ethan winner and john sayers sites, and search around here for threads on rooms, acoustics, home recording, etc. changing software is probably the last thing you need to look at at this point, otherwise you are gonna end up working at this thing backwards and spend a bunch of money unnecessarily that kinda regret can be painful to the wallet :-) if you get all the sorted out, and you are confident in your mics, then move to preamps--if $1500+ is too much for a stereo unit, you might check out this: http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm about $1200 for 2 channels of assembled 312-type, and you can add the other types later for some nice flavors, etc. __________________ Sonic Sorcery Austin, Texas

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27th January 2005	#4
rynugz007 Gear addict Joined: Dec 2003 Location: cincinnati, OH Posts: 463	I can't imagine the audio engine in nuendo is that much better than sonar. I'm sure there is a difference but i'm guessing any hardware upgrade (mics, conversion, monitors, pres,outboard) would make a more substantial difference. The software you use is a pretty personal and subjective thing. If you already put in the time to learn sonar and are comfortable and content with it then i wouldnt bother upgrading. You want something that you can work fast and effortless on that meets all your needs. If you find that sonar is not for you then try a few other programs out before you dump 2500 on nuendo. Remember, cubase sx has the same audio engine as nuendo and pretty much ALL the same features minus the video post production stuff. I have cubase sx2 and I have never been able to work as efficient as i do now.

28th January 2005	#5
Durv Gear addict Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore MD Posts: 400 Thread Starter	Thanks guys. So what would be a great preamp for micing guitars??? ...in the veins of heavy/saturated sounds similiar to a lot of the "loud&fast" school? rock/metal/ even punk stuff. I'm still not sure about what to do...i know SONAR is decent, but there is a "flatness" to the sound that i have started to despise. Nuendo projects and PTHD mixdowns sound so much "larger" . Even when the recorded TONES are horrible. the panning, the spread? I'll relearn how to work on a new platfrom. Growth is important to me anyway. ....anyone know some definite insights? thanks again Durv

28th January 2005	#6
Leo Goler Gear maniac Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	Do you really need Nuendo extra capabilities? I suspect that you don't. Cubase or Samplitude, then. Cubase if you need better automation and MIDI, score and such things and Samplitude if you don't need. But they (32bit-float engines mentioned) all actually sound and truncate in the same way, including Sonar (not talking of plugs). It's they way you work that matters. I'd say stay with Sonar if it does the job and look for improvments in microphones then pres and AD/DA's.

29th January 2005	#8
Ron53 Gear interested Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 8	Totally the preamp... remember that the software only effects (slightly) the play back. Ron

30th January 2005	#9
Hiwatt Gear addict Joined: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 389	Go with SX3 and a Great River MP-1NV or a Chandler TG-2 if you have the $$$

30th January 2005	#10
blackcom Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 985	It's not the software...it's the preamp.... Make shure to check out API preamps if you're into modern rock music, lot's of "energy" in the top....

1st February 2005	#16
bunnerabb Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2004 Location: The Big Wide City Posts: 1,089	.wavs is .wavs. How you get them there... muy importanté.

2nd February 2005	#19
natpub More cowbell! Joined: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,171 2 Reviews written	Room sounds like a decent space (though squares can be kinda weird), have you tested it out with a RTA? Looks like you might use one or two more mics, minimum. If 1 channel would do ya, you can NOT go wrong with the Vipre, serious. and yeah, the BA stuff looks really nice--I think James Lugo uses thier API modules, I forget...maybe he will chime in....I haven't heard them myself, but they have a pretty good rep. as far as "...so simple, so easy..." goes, well, there is always...: http://www.mercenary.com/gmltwochanmi.html cheers

2nd February 2005	#21
BigAl Gear maniac Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 275	If you are on a budget, you might want to check out this 8 channel API 8200a.....> http://store.yahoo.com/mercenary-audio/api82limi.html

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